Newbie negotiating. Fair or not fair?

[henryimages]

<p>I recently placed a free ad for my services. Got a response needing portraits at a class reunion, $250 for 3 hours, about 150 images, no editing, all images on disk mailed after event. I said ok, fine. Payment arrangements? They said 1/2 now, 1/2 after I mail the CD. I said, well, since it's my first time working with you, I'd prefer full payment after event is shot, and prior to releasing images on disk. Didn't hear back from them...<br>

So... was I smart? Dumb? Is it customary to get final payment after the customer gets their files, or should I always get payment first? <br>

I know when I go to the grocery store they don't let me out the door with my goodies until after I check out at the register. I'm new at this so thanks for any feedback, sarcasm, etc. </p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Half before and half after should be fine, it's better than what most pay. I do a lot of magazine stuff and it's all pay on delivery.<br>

<br />Your grocery analogy is wrong. The right analogy would be that you have to pay half the cost of each item when you put it into the cart, then the other half at checkout. You seem to have missed that "the goodies" in this case are the final images, not your activities.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>The difference, though, Jeff - is that they're talking about getting the second half <em>after</em> he delivers the goods, not <em>as</em> he delivers them. Once they have the CD (unless he's willing to lawyer up in a cash-losing fight), he's lost all leverage over getting paid for the balance.<br /><br />Victor: if you can present the material in person and walk away with a check, that might help. Otherwise, it's a trust thing. Jeff's right about what the groceries are, in this case. We all know it's largely your skill and being there ... but the customer definitely thinks of it as the final image files, period.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>The difference, though, Jeff - is that they're talking about getting the second half <em>after</em> he delivers the goods</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's not a difference, I was assuming after. That's standard. No magazine is going to come to your house to pick up and pay. Well a tiny local one might, but the check won't be big enough to matter. Stock agencies pay after the client gets the photo. I've only been burned once on this (I have been burned on licensing issues, but that's not the same) and it was when a magazine went out of business shortly after I invoiced. They had always paid up before then though.<br>

<br />It comes down to trust. If you're dealing with individuals, payment on delivery rather than after is fine. If you're dealing with shady organizations or people, maybe payment up front is good, but why are you dealing with them? I think the OP blew it.</p>

[funcrunch]

<p>For clients I haven't worked with before, I've asked for a deposit upfront and payment upon delivery of the final photos. I wouldn't expect full payment to be made before the client received their photos, whether for a newbie or an experienced pro. As Jeff said, it's a matter of trust.</p>

[henryimages]

<p>My sense was that he was subcontracting this work out, and if he could get away with paying me $125 (1/2 the amount) and "losing contact" after I mailed him the disk... well, "trust" was an issue here, to be sure, especially since he didn't show up on a google search and he wouldn't give me any company names to research online. <br>

Thanks for the feedback, though. I will consider a "face to face" exchange of images/goods for future negotiations. </p>

[zensphoto]

<p>Make sure you get a signed contract with them that states 1/2 now and 1/2 later. This way you are completely covered for small claims court in the event you have to take them to court for the other half.</p>

[kevin_delson]

<p>Some of the answer will depend who you are dealing with.</p>

<p>Reading your post, it appears your client is not in the business of publishing, but perhaps someone on a committee?</p>

<p>Dealings with (non-professional) people takes on a somewhat different tone and strategy. (i.e) You need a better guarantee you will be paid in full. Personally, I only accept payment in full when dealing with this type of client.</p>

<p>50% upfront is fine, with the balance due upon or before final delivery.</p>

<p>If you want to include a clause in your contract concerning late fees, arbitration, legal fees etc, which may lead to appearing in small claims or formal court, that is for you to decide. I prefer to avoid such time wasting pursuits at all costs.</p>

<p>When or if you work with established agencies/magazines/AD's/Editors etc..etc; the above will NOT apply.</p>

[steve m smith]

<blockquote>

<p>Is it customary to get final payment after the customer gets their files</p>

</blockquote>

<p>With most other trades you only get paid after completion of the work. Wedding photographers seem to have established a precedent of getting paid first.</p>

[henryimages]

<p>Keven, and others, thank you for your feedback. It seems likely I'm dealing with a committee member for the event, so thanks for explaining the nuances for these kinds of situations.<br>

Update: The person contacted me today (after several days of not hearing anything) and said "it's a deal." So apparently my negotiating worked. I plan to take it a step futher and will bring my laptop with me to the event so I can burn the files to cd-rom on site after shooting, take the $$$, and hand them the disk. Not sure why I didn't think of that before.</p>

[ianivey]

<p>Good option, Victor, and it's great to hear you got the gig. Client will likely be impressed that you are able to deliver on the spot, and in fact may be unprepared for that, so consider notifying the client of your intent and requesting that the client have payment ready at the event.</p>