An enthusiastic niece!!

[alam_khan1]

<p>My very excited 9-year old niece called me yesterday. She wants to start taking "pictures", and has $200 (this sum can be supplemented). She would like my advice about which camera to buy. I told her to let me do some research and that I would get back to her. So consider this to be my research.<br>

Obviously, simply giving her a camera is not sufficient. She would also need some idea about photography. Fortunately, she is an avid reader and quite self-motivated. So, my questions are:<br>

1. Is there a good book, or books, to introduce kids to photography, something like "Photography for Kids" that is clear and readable?<br>

2. She wants a digital camera (surprise!). What would be a decent introductory camera that would have automatic modes and also allow some manual exposures? Is this a realistic request, or one would have to start with a camera with all automatic modes and then later graduate to something which allows manual exposures?<br>

3. At what point should one introduce photo processing software, and which one?<br>

4. Answers to any other questions I should have asked but did not.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance<br>

Alam</p>

[jim_j2]

<blockquote>

<p>"Obviously, simply giving her a camera is not sufficient."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You will be surprised! . . . Hand any 9 year old something/anything that is "micro-chip controlled" and they will figure it out faster than most adults!</p>

<p>1. In many cases, the User's Manual that comes with the camera is a good starting point. Many will give at least a brief description of Aperture, Shutter, DOF etc., and also explain how to obtain them with that specific Camera.<br>

2. I am not up to speed on whats on today's market. Although a Canon DSLR/SLR user, for my Point & Shoot I use a FujiFilm FinePix F40fd. It's probably outdated now, but it is an 8 mp with good "auto" features as well as "fully manual" capabilities. It has a good onboard flash and is very compact. In fact, one of the reasons I purchased it was because it has a good screen on the back and no "view finder" to take up space. It also is quick to "start up" and has unnoticable "shutter lag," a good zoom range, quick Auto Focusing, includes Battery and Charger, uses SD cards which are cheap and easily obtainable.<br>

I would suggest finding a "retailer" who has a knowledgeable salesperson in the Electronic/Camera department to assist in your selection.<br>

3. Again, . . . just provide her with the Software and you will be amazed!</p>

<p>4. Sign her up here on PN, show her the forums and "turn her loose!" (Personally I don't think its a bad idea. Other's may disagree, . . . but it would be "refreshing" to have a "young learner's" questions to answer when the "Uncle" is not around!</p>

 

[danny_low]

<p>At 9 years old, size is important so that eliminates the DSLR cameras. Your niece will quickly get tire of carrying it around and will find her hands are too small to work the controls conveniently. Plus, even a used one will cost more than $200 unless it is really old.</p>

<p>I would recommend one of the small P&S cameras. Few have a full manual mode but all will have a variety of semi-manual mode such as sports mode for action shooting, macro mode for closeups, mountain mode for landscapes, etc. They can be quite small making them suitable for a small person. I personally use one of the Panasonic Lumix FP cameras. There are various models but all are under $200.</p>

<p>If she is interested in photography then she should be learning photo editing immediately. Picasa is a good beginner's program and is free from Google.</p>

<p>I am not aware of a beginners book for children but Kodak publishes several very good beginners books that are suitable for children as well as adults.</p>

<p>Danny</p>

 

[lex_jenkins]

<blockquote>

<p>"Sign her up here on PN..."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Technically, she's too young, per photo.net <a href="../info/terms-of-use">Terms of Use</a>:</p>

<ol>

<li>

<blockquote>

<h3>Legal Age; Ability to Accept Terms</h3>

<p>The photo.net website is not intended for children under the age of 18. By using the Site, you affirm that you are at least 18 years of age, and are fully able and competent to enter into the terms, conditions, obligations, affirmations, representations, and warranties set forth in the Terms and agree to comply with the Terms. If you are under 18, please do not post User Content or otherwise use this Site.</p>

</blockquote>

</li>

</ol>

<p>With consent from the site administrator her questions might be acceptable here on the Beginner Forum, which is more closely moderated to ensure helpful, patient replies. But the early stage of learning photography, especially for kids, is best handled with good instruction books or videos and in-person mentoring by a patient adult. I'd also check Amazon and other online book sources for good values in used instruction books.</p>

<p><a href="00RljT">Here's a thread with a list of illustrated and video tutorials available online or on CD/DVD</a>.</p>

[William Kahn]

<p>Good advice from Jim and Danny. I second the motion on the P&S camera as a good place for a 9-year old to start. I'm also tempted to agree with thei idea of signing her up for PN. After all, if the forum can stand old geezers like me, it should be able to handle a bright kid. I would have some concerns about the probability that she'll stumble onto the nudes gallery and how her parents might feel about that. I don't know if PN has a filter for that or not...</p>

[jim_j2]

<p>O.K., . . . second thought!<br>

Lex & William are correct. I didn't even think about the Nude gallery and the Terms of use.<br>

I do think however, that it would be nice if PN had filter's that could restrict and provide access to specific areas of the site for "Youngsters." And let them into at least the Beginner's Forum and possibly let them have their own gallery.</p>

<p>Oh Well . . . . Sorry!</p>

[William Kahn]

<p>That answers the "filter" question. Thanks, Lex...</p>

[jaydesi]

<p>Something like one of the advanced P&S cameras that have both automatic and manual exposure settings would be fine, like the Canon G11 (or a used older model to stay closer to her price range), but she'll have to be dedicated enough to read, learn, and practice how to properly use those settings.</p>

<p>If she's easily discouraged or not particularly focused and ends up keeping the camera on automatic mode all the time, then it's a waste to get a more advanced camera. Since you know your niece and we don't, you have to make that judgment. As she grows, and assuming her interest grows with her, she could "upgrade" to a small DSLR in the future...she'd probably be able to manage an entry level one in a few years, once her hands are a bit bigger and stronger.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I think the idea of a nice digital entry level SLR is a good one, combined with a copy of Photoshop Elements for her computer and a decent, but not expensive color printer-- these will give her something that can be started at a elementary level and she will quickly go on from there. My daughter, at a somewhat older age, picked up layers in Photoshop and went on from there with no tuition at all. I offered her some lessons, but she didn't seem to need them.</p>

<p>I'm a great fan of P.net, and I have suspicions about the mental age of some of our participants (though I guess they're on the second run around), but maybe not P.net yet. It's not the "porn", it's the "grumpyness" so often mentioned by departing former (young?) members. Any kid with a computer has all the porn they want, I guess. However, you do not want her parents to see you as the "funny uncle."</p>

[cj8281]

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Photography-Make-Work-Science/dp/1587283581">"Make it work Photography"</a>, Haslam & Barnes by Action Publishing. This is an older book and can usually be found in libraries, my local one has 2 copies. It deals with home made pinhole cameras, how light works, camera obscuras, it teaches about focal lengths, apertures with little projects to build that gives them a hands on teaching aids. It has a great section on lighting and how you can make your own lighting set ups with things you might already have. There are many little and some bigger projects to make that help with teaching. As far as the pinhole cameras and that, I realize that they are not digital but it might be something that she can make herself and hold it up to the world and say "I made this!", it might not be great, it might not be perfect but it might be something that she will remember and keep for the rest of her life.<br>

As far as cameras, Kodak Z812 IS, has settings for auto, Program, Aperture priority, Shutter priority, Manual, can take video, has a panoramic picture setting, can be set for manual focusing and it does let you choose between the back LCD screen or a little view finder, which is very nice on bright days. It takes AA batteries but you can find a rechargeable lithium ion battery for it as well. I recently upgraded mine to the rechargeable battery and it is nice. It has a 12x optical zoom and is an 8 megapixel camera. Right now there seems to be quite a few of them on the e*ay auction site that are new from a big box retailer that are going for less than a 1/3 of what I paid for mine. This is just my 2¢ worth.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>If the girl is keen and has shown an history of dedication to task -I totally disagree with a P&S and totally agree with a DSLR.</p>

<p>A DSLR need not be a 1 series with full accoutrement. A 500D or etc, with a kit zoom lens can be managed by a year old's hands and is an infinitely better, long term learning tool. The OP mentioned there could be supplementation to the initial $ outlay.</p>

<p>As for post production - there is a lot of free stuff which can be downloaded. Picasa springs to mind.</p>

<p>I agree that one to one mentoring is a good idea to explain the function of shutter speed and aperture - then IMO let her loose to create and don't stifle the creative spirit.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

[xxloverxx]

<p>I'd go for a small DSLR with a prime. Like a 1000D with a 30 or 35mm lens.</p>

<p>Can't think of any books that explain aperture/shutter speed/ISO in simple terms…you might have to teach her yourself.</p>

[lachaine]

<p>It's very important to get her onto internet photography forums so she can have all enjoyment of just taking the pictures sucked out of her as early as possible.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Sage. . . and balanced comment I think.</p>

<p>Better to join a Camera Club or do Photography or Media Art or similar at school, even as an add on or after school activity: many teachers are keen photograhers - keep the click rate up and the face to face critique, from other students / enthusiasts AS WELL AS teachers / Uncles etc.<br />WW</p>

[mark_drutz]

<p>I'd start with an inexpensive P&S and see how she does with that. If she outgrows it, you can go to a small DSLR, preferably used. You can ask her school librarian or the librarian in the children's section of the public library to recommend a book.</p>

[lachaine]

<p>It doesn't matter what the camera is. The simpler the better for now. Let her just concentrate on taking pictures. Imposing technicity over it now will just stifle creativity. There are some successful "pro" photographers out there right now who have virtually no knowledge of the camera other than where the button is. All that can come later. Think like a 9 year old girl, not like an adult male.</p>

[wade_roth]

Santa brought my 6 year old daughter a Nikon Coolpix L18 when she was 4 years old (I think it was $80). It has exposure compensation and some built in flash control but that's about it. My daughter really enjoys taking photos but her subject interest varies considerably. Both of these are right out of the camera. All I did was put them together in PS so I could upload one image file. At this point, I'm most interested in just seeing her express her creativity. When I asked her why she took these particular shots, she said that the bridge was "awesome" and she liked how her friend's tongue matched her shirt. In my mind, it's fantastic that she put that much thought into each shot. To expect her to do much more is pretty unrealistic. In a few years, I might get her a used Canon G10 or G11. They have the simplicity of a P&S but also a lot manual control and a hot shoe. That should allow her to grow if she wants to.

Good luck!

--Wade<div></div>

[aura_jane]

For my son's 10th birthday, I got him an easyshare. They are very kid friendly. I purchased a different model, but this one

should be more of what you are looking for. It's under $200, and it has auto, aperture priority, shutter priority, and manual.

That should get her started on the path of knowing how to use a camera.

http://www.amazon.com/Kodak-EasyShare-Z981-Schneider-Kreuznach-Stabilized/dp/B0031RGGFM/ref=sr_1_2?

s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1279549513&sr=1-2

[alam_khan1]

<p>Thanks, everyone, for all the wonderful responses and a great discussion. All the ideas seem to have merit but they appear to start with different premises: For example, the size and ability of niece's hands. <br>

I think I will take everyone's advice but implement each at an appropriate time as my niece develops her skills. I like Pierre Lachaine's advice the best, and will first get her a basic point and shoot such as a Panasonic Lumix. Then introduce her to Picasa, and see where she takes them.<br>

Once she develops her interest and gets curious (Why is this picture so terrible?), we will introduce basic understanding of photons, aperture, ISO, shutter speed, etc.<br>

Thanks, for helping me develop an intelligent and stepwise plan for my favorite niece.<br>

Alam</p>

[ted_raper1]

<p>I tend to agree more with the simple approach at this point - get her a good Lumix, Powershot, or something like that. I think a Canon G11, while she would certainly be able to "grow" into it, is probably too sophisticated for a beginner 9 year old. </p>

[lee_richards2]

<p>I would give her an SLR. I had an Argus C3 at that age. I quickly learned to read the light, select the correct film and rules of basic composition. A nine year old these days will find nothing difficult about a D40 or something like it. </p>

<p>A point and shoot will make it far more difficult to teach her control of light, apature and such. She really needs to understand the basics right away. The menus on point and shoot cameras confuse me and I am way over 9 years old. </p>

[William Michael]

<p>It's interesting the opposite points of view and from two directions:</p>

<p>First: the type of camera <strong><em>is not</em></strong> important / the type of camera<strong><em> is</em></strong> important. <br>

Second: it is important it be a <strong><em>P&S because</em></strong> . . . / it is important it be a <strong><em>DSLR because</em></strong> . . .</p>

<p>***</p>

<p>I came back for a second go at this because I have taught kids Photography – a bit older than 9, but still “kids” nonetheless.</p>

<p>I think the camera choice depends on the child.</p>

<p>I think all the posters agree that a nine year old should be let go out and experiment and have fun just “taking Pictures” . . . like “colouring in” is fun . . .</p>

<p>However a talented, inquisitive and creative nine year old child will quickly learn to use the complete range of Derwent Pencils, refining hue and intensity with pressure and stroke and she will crave for Charcoals and Paints also – and another child will gain just as much pleasure from the set of 12 pencil standard. . .</p>

<p>Don’t choose the camera based upon the child’s age – IMO nine year old girls are generally quite capable at fine motor skills and most have the capacity to understand a big hole lets through more light than a little hole . . . and ½ second lets more light on the light sponge than 1/100^th second . . . ISO is a bit more difficult – but like a big sponge – 1000ISO is a super absorber sponge – 100 ISO needs a lot of water to get it filled-up . . .</p>

<p>But ISO doesn’t matter that much at the beginning – and neither does Tv or Av if she doesn’t want to bother knowing that stuff . . . because the Green Rectangle can make a DLSR into a P&S and she can just “visually compose” – if that is what she wants to do . . . <em>to begin with ? ? ?</em> (I don’t know – she is not my niece)</p>

<p>POST SCRIPT:</p>

<p>I have two daughters: – one owns a P&S – had similar since she was about 9 years old. Uses it when she travels – maybe twice a year, if that.</p>

<p>The other daughter has a 450D, three lenses, borrows my lenses, tripods, filters and cameras.<br>

She was using MF film at 10 and was fully conversant with a B&W darkroom at 14 . . . and sucks up the info and loves it . . .</p>

<p>My wife never owned a camera in her life, though she knows an incredible amount about Photography - artistically and technically: until recently when it became necessary for her to use a camera for recording purposes – she uses a P&S and knows the four necessary functions required for the task. Other than that she is not interested in Cameras at all though is a stern critic of Photography in many genres . . . She is not a ning-nong by any means – she is just not interested in anything other than recording the images she needs for reference . . .</p>

<p>It depends on the child – she’s your niece.</p>

<p>WW </p>

[teresa_atkinson]

<p>A really nice introductory camera with both point and shoot automatic modes and full manual controls is the Canon S90. You can even shoot in raw. Unfortunately, Canon took away the viewfinder that it had in the S80, but it does have a nice LCD. The S90 does great in low light and I've even seen daylighted action shots that turn out really nicely. If you go over to Dpreview and the CanonTalk forum, you'll see loads of pics people have posted with the camera that are truly excellent. It also has a movie mode, albeit, it only shoots in standard definition. I love my S80. I'd upgrade but I just bought a new SLR. The lowest price I've seen on the camera is $299 (last week at Newegg.com).</p>

<p>I'd introduce some kind of photo editing capability from the start. I suspect a kid would be really intrigued by it. I've played around with Piknik.com. It's fun and definitely geared toward kids. Picassa.com also has photo editing. Another fun thing worth considering maybe for the next gift holiday is the Wacom Bamboo Pen and Touch tablet. It sells for about $90, has both pen and multi-touch capabilities and comes with Photoshop Essentials 7.0. I just got one from Costco.com today and played with it like I was NINE YEARS old. It is especially geared toward home users, and definitely appropriate for youth, although it's got the sensitivity of the old Intuos3 so it's a productive tool too. The Bamboo Craft is another similar tablet, which packages scrapbooking software with Photoshop Essentials and Painter Essentials....in case she's interested in scrapbooking too.</p>

<p>As far as books? I don't know. I think a visit from an uncle would be much better.</p>