Hartblei cameras at Kalimex ???

[martin_f._melhus]

Kalimex is now listing the Hartblei cameras for sale on their website.

They have 3 models that I'm interested in, the 66, 1006 and 1008. The

66 looks like a P6 mount Kiev 88. The 1006 appears to be an improved

P6 mount 88, and the 1008 is a Kiev88 mount 88. They also claim that

these cameras can take Hassie backs and finders.

 

1) My gut is telling me that these are the same people who used to

rebuild the K60 and K88 cameras for Kalimex, and they are now selling

the rebuilt cameras under their name. Anybody else have any info on

this?

 

2) The 1006 Studio Master (SM) version is listed at $660 for the body

only. The 1008 SM lists at $440 for the body only. Why the huge price

difference for the P6 mount? Wouldn't another lens be better instead?

(Yes, I know about the other lenses available for the P6 mount. But

is this option worth $220?)

 

To get the whole scoop on this, download the MF Price List PDF file,

and look at the info in their online shop. While some of the side

frames don't load right, the upper ones do, and you can see the text

and images.

 

Thanks for any information.

 

Regards,

[adrian_twiss]

I emailed Kalimex about the differences between Hartblei and ordinary Kieve 88s as the price differentials were quick substantial. It would appear that the only difference between the Hartblei and Kiev is that the Hartblei will take Hasselblad backs whereas the Kiev will not. You should also be aware that if you buy Russian backs for a Hartblei they cost approx. twice as much as the Kiev backs. With regard to options both Hartbleis and Kievs come with optional interior flocking, optional cloth shutters and various two different types of mirror lock. I have no idea if Hartbleis undergo stricter quality control over modified Kievs. The response from Kalimex that I received did not suggest that this was the case. I suspect that Hartblei buyers do have that extra piece of mind regarding the reliability of Hasselblad backs. Kalimex are a very helpful company who try and respond to emails quickly (when their server lets them). Alex Pesarenko seems knowledgable and keen to give good service. However his grammar in his emails is rather prosaic.

[adrian_twiss]

Please accept my apologies for the appalling spelling in my last contribution to this thread.

[alan_dale]

Look at <a href="http://www.dedal.cz/OPTICS/medium_format_cameras.htm"> http://www.dedal.cz/OPTICS/medium_format_cameras.htm</a> --- it may answer some of your questions. There seems to be some inconsistency in information here--- from reading the page I have linked here, I thought ALL Hartblei cameras had the P6 rather than the Kiev 88 lens mount. The Hartbleis also apparently have other improvements, including the shutter and mirror lock up previously mentioned, the limited Hasselblad interchangeability and a construction improvement to the baseplate/tripod socket -- an apparently potentially fatal weak point in the original Kiev 88 design.<p>

I have investigated the Pentacon 6 camera mount and think it's a good design -- simple, reliable, positive. It has a rotating collar that you twist to mount/unmount the lens --- few moving parts, nothing to get loose or wear out. I've only looked at the Kiev mount closely once or twice but remember thinking that the lenses were difficult to mount/unmount and so I would prefer the P6 mount.<p>

As far as the difference in cost, Kalimex mentions a "work distantion" for the Kiev B mount being 82.1mm and the "work distantion" for the P6 mount being 74mm. I'm not sure what is meant by "work distantion" but if this is meant to indicate the distance from the optical center of the lens in the mount to the film plane, then the difference in P6 mount and Kiev B mount is a significant difference --- more than 8mm. I suspect that this may be a pretty significant reconstruction of the mount of the camera --- that why it costs so much. Is it worth it? I don't know --- if I were buying one, I would probably get the P6 mount because I think its more reliable and I would want to be able to use all those Exacta and Pentacon lenses.

[alan_dale]

I looked again at the site. I misread it the first time --- the Hartblei 1006 has the P6 mount, the 1008 has the Kiev mount, as you said in your original post.<p>

[lubos_hvozdara]

Hello Hartblei - Kiev fans,

 

Last week on 14/3/2000 I have purchased one of those machines. It is Hartblei 1008 SM with 45 mm shift lens, 80 mm standard lens, Polaroid back, three 6 x 6 film magazines for 120 film, lens hood, set of extenders and camera strap. Since I am actually in Vienna it was not so far for me to go to Prague and to pick it up personally. I kicked on my car and I have visited Kalimex. My first impression was a bit mixed, since the headquarters of Kalimex is really inconspicuous - in fact it seats in a rent apartment in one the houses in Prague. But OK they want to sell for a good price and not to have headquarters like a bank.

Alex Pissarenko welcomed me and he brought me the stuff I have ordered. He is really a nice and pleasant guy, extremely helpful and likable. Knowing a lot about the stuff he is selling. Of course I wanted to test the thing, so after a short instruction held by Alex I have fed my new Polaroid back and I have shot two pictures using a Metz BCT 30 flash. The mechanism and the optics worked fine, so I have asked for a bill and paid. I was quite happy having such a system for roughly 1800 $. Alex then told me, how to care about it and he informed me, that the shutter mechanism shall run in and that need to put through roughly five films.

Over the weekend I took some close-up pictures for my friend, who is collecting butterflies. It was in the studio, so there were good conditions in sense of temperature and moisture, and I was also not nervous as it sometimes can happen in terrain. In principle it worked fine, but sometimes it required to push the release button twice to make a shot. I have not developed the shots yet, so I cant tell you much about their quality. But the Polaroid photos are fine.

During the exposure of thirteenth roll the shutter was blocked in half of the cycle and refused to work properly from that moment on. During my attempts to bring it back to life by cocking it and releasing it the camera "cough out" a small lever so I was sure, that there is a severe damage.

I have packed the body and sent it to Prague today with a request for a warranty exchange (they guarantee it within one month from purchase).

To conclude it: Polaroid back: excellent, mirror control on Hartblei 1008 SM: excellent, shutter and cocking mechanism: poor, film backs - old type: fine, -new type (possibility of multiple exposure): fine. 45 mm shift lens: very good to excellent, 80 mm lens: excellent. Besides that really a good customer treatment. I only hope, it will remain even in case of the troubles I have got in and, finally, that they can provide me a reliable machine. At least as reliable as Zenit 12 S (also a former USSR machine) that I have already ten years and it serves without any troubles up to now.

 

To be continued...

 

Lubos

[lubigeek]

martin, i just finished browsing the price list, and it appears that under the lens catagory they have several adapter rings. one of these listed merely says 'k-88/p-6'. does this mean that for $14 i could still use the p-6 lenses without the more expensive body?

[kymtman]

I purchased a Hartblei last year. I don't use it much because of the metal shutter curtain, quite noisy. They are a gutted Kiev 88 and replaced the internal parts that were weak in the 88 with a stronger part or so they say. As far as the backs for the camera fitting a Hassy I do not know, but the viewfinders are the same and a site cheaper,and of good quality. Waist level for $29, metered prism finder $79. I have both and think they are grand. I bought just the body with mirror lock up for around $300 at www.hartblei.com

I bought a Kiev 88CM from Atlanta (forget the dealer), Mike Foreman I think and shot 3 rolls of film and the mechanism on the speed select broke, sitting on the shelf. some things russia makes are good like the Kiev 4m and the Kiev 4am, great items with a later made lens. so much for that.

[ed_gendron1]

does anyone have or know where i could find a CHEAP kiev 60 or 6C body?

I figure that a broken one will keep cost down.

thanks

-edg