printing dark/black photos

[don_myers1]

<p>

<p>I have recently updated to both a new computer (Windows XP to Win 7) and a newer version of Elements (5.0 to 7.0). My printer is a HP Photosmart 5180. All photos are in a RAW File format. Now the problem:<br>

With my previous combination of wndows/elements my photos printed bright and vibrant, but with my new computer/elements the photos print almost black. I thought orrigionally that it might be my printer, but when I saved my picture in a non-compressed TIFF format and took to a local photo lab, the colors of the prints from the lab matched the prints off my computer. Can anyone explain this or have had similar problems, and what can be done to fix it.<br>

Thank you for your input and help.<br>

Don</p>

</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Are you using the same display now, as you were before you updated? Is it calibrated? If you have your display set to be too bright, a too-dark image will <em>appear</em> right on your display, while it's actually much too dark.</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>Yes, it is a new monitor, but I don't believe that would be a problem, as the test involved a previous print; (a before and after test.) The photos on the monitor itself a farely dark, but if no processing of the picture has occured, how would the moitor affect the final print?</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>A too-bright monitor will cause you, during editing, to darken an image until it looks right to your eye. Assuming that you're using the right printer driver and paper/ink profile choice, that too-dark image will of course print as too-dark. If you're saying that you've opened up previously edited and print-just-fine files, and they appear <em>correct on the display</em> but also print too dark, then you're dealing with a printer driver/profile issue.</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>I'm sorry Matt, I think I am not explaining this correctly. The computer/software is different - the printer is the same, and the files have NOT BEEN ALTERED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. <br />I am using a previous printed file so there is a constant - how it printed before my new computer opposed to how it prints now. With the XP/PE5 combination the colors were fine; with the W7/PE7 combination the pictures are very dark, even with the brightness on the monitor being maxed out. (Both the monitor and print is dark.) Also, I printed the same file at a photo lab - the colors were the same as my printer. (I did this to specifically rule out the printer.) <br />I would think that either the file has been corrupted, or there is some conflict between my computer/printer, although other documents print fine.</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>I'm sorry Matt, I think I am not explaining this correctly. The computer/software is different - the printer is the same, and the files have NOT BEEN ALTERED IN ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. <br>

I am using a previous printed file so there is a constant - how it printed before my new computer opposed to how it prints now. With the XP/PE5 combination the colors were fine; with the W7/PE7 combination the pictures are very dark, even with the brightness on the monitor being maxed out. (Both the monitor and print is dark.) Also, I printed the same file at a photo lab - the colors were the same as my printer. (I did this to specifically rule out the printer.) <br>

I would think that either the file has been corrupted, or there is some conflict between my computer/printer, although other documents print fine. If the files are corrupted, I know nothing can be done, but how can I tell if it's the file or a computer/printer/software incompatability?</p>

<p>Don</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I think that what's throwing me off here, Don, is that you said you made <em>new</em> files and took them to a lab, where they were also seeing the files as too dark. What do the older images look like <em>before </em>you convert them? Do you have any TIFFs or JPGs that were already rendered as such, from before? What do they look like when you display them using the native Windows image viewing tool (not PSE7)?<br /><br />And: what color space settings/profiles are you using in the new version of PSE?</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>I have all my photos backed up on disk, both raw and jpeg/tiff. I will try printing some files directly off the disks and compare with off the computer.<br>

As for the windows image viewing tool, I have no clue as to what that is, nor do know the color space settings of PE7, or even how to find out what they are. All my files were shot in sRGB. Give me a few minutes to run those tests, and I'll get back to you. BTW, thanks for your help.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>To use the native Windows photo viewer: use "Computer" to navigate to whatever folder contains the images. RIGHT-click, Open With -> Windows Photo Viewer</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>Matt;<br>

I just finished a test of printer/software. First, I used the Windows viewer to print the photo from the CD, then I used the HP software to print the photo. Finally, I imported the file to my PE and printed from the orginizer -- all photos are the same.</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>AH HA!<br>

Matt, After going through the photos on my disks, it seems that the RAW files imported from the disks are dull and faded - any TIFF or jpeg file I make from those on my computer will be faded also.<br>

What confused me was that the RAW files on my previous computer printed fine; very little color correction was needed. After importing those same RAW files onto my new computer they turned very dark. However, any processed TIFF files on disk seem fine -- I need to go through them all, but the few I checked are OK.<br>

I'm not sure why the RAW files faded so drastically, but the ones I processed are safe, and of the unprocessed dark ones, that's why we all have photoshop: to fix em!<br>

Tomorrow I'll shoot some pics, download them on my PC, and see how they turn out. If I have any problems I'll post them here, but otherwise, pretty much problem solved. Thanks for your help and patience.</p>

<p>Don</p>

[don_myers1]

<p>One last note; you asked about color space/profiles; can you explain what that is and how to check it and what to adjust it to?<br>

Thanks again Matt.</p>

<p>Don</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Don: if your camera is using the Adobe RGB space, but you're telling your software to render those images in, for example, the sRGB space, that mis-alignment of the color mapping will definitely produce some dim, muddy-looking output. Don't know which camera you're using, but they all have a menu option along these lines. Likewise your RAW converter can be told to honor or to modify the original file's color space, or can be told to default to something else (like sRGB). The trick is to be consistent from one end of the process to the last, or to be deliberate in how you convert an image from one color space to another. Right now, it sounds like you're doing it more by accident, with pretty much the expected results.<br /><br />I'm not a PSE guy, so I can't get into the menu-specific options, sorry. But hit the help file (or so some Googling) on selecting, importing, converting, etc., sRGB and Adobe RGB, and you'll get lots of good reading.</p>

[conwaygroup]

<p>I believe that when you open a raw file in Photoshop Elements to edit, the edit information can either be saved in "sidecar .xmp files" or be saved within the picture's metadata. Those are the options that you get in the Photoshop camera raw preferences panel and I don't know why Elements would be any different.<br>

If you had made edits to your files on the old computer and they were saved as sidecar .xmp files and for some reason the sidecar files were not transferered to the new computer your pictures could lose any previous editing that was done on the old machine.<br>

Check to see if your .xmp"s made the trip along with your raw files.</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>Just because it's so easy to overlook, especially when changing from one set up to another--do check that the color management is turned off on either PS or the printer. Both ON will also produce "muddiness."</p>

[joe_taylor5]

<p>Don could there have been some sort of auto-fix turned on on the old setup? I ran into auto-fix everything at one time and it "fixed" everything even if I did not want it "fixed". Turned night photos into daytime photos all on it's own. Then to help it auto saved them on top of the original file. YUCK!</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>Here is a guess: the printer driver in your old Windows software - Photoshop Elements worked to your satisfaction. When you went to a more *modern* version of Windows and Photoshop Elements, you let your old printer *configuration* continue down the old path, but your images were going down a new path to the printer.</p>

<p>The same image (highly) likely did not print the same on the new computer as it did on your old computer system ... as you found out.</p>

<p> </p>