Prism for 501CM

[zdenek]

<p>PM45 or PM90? Which one is better choice and why? Thanks.</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Zdenek, It's really just personal preference. I find the 45 degree prism a little easier to use. The 90 degree is a bit more difficult with a film back.</p>

[bengt_ljungkvist3]

<p>Zdenek,<br>

if you plan to lessen your filmcost by adding a Mag 16, you will find that you can easily orient the finder vertically with the PM90. If you have the winder, even more so. </p>

[ulrik]

<p>PM45 is easier to use and the PM90 may not be compatible with a digital back. That said, I have both prisms, but I use the PM90 only when I need a high camera position, e.g. when taking concert photos over the heads of the crowd.<br>

Ulrik </p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>45 degree prisms have greater magnification than 90 degree versions. The latest PM(E)45 is 2.5x and the slightly older PM5(51) is 3.0x, compared to 2.0x for PM(E)90 prisms. The 45 can be used at all heights from ground to chin level, whereas the 90 only at eye level.</p>

<p>The 90 would be fairly easy to use with the camera rotated 90 degrees and an L-bracket. The only credible reason do do so would be with a rectangular format digital back (e.g., > 16MP), but all are too fat to be used with the PM90. Nor can you use a Polaroid back with it (now that Polaroid film has been resurrected under another name). If you have a passion for 645 or 6x7, you can buy a Mamiya kit with a lens for under $1000, which will be far easier to use.</p>

[vick_vickery]

<p>I have and use both...as previously said, the 90 works best at eye-level, so I use it mainly when I need a high viewpoint since it doesn't require me to climb up above the finder. These days, the finders are so cheap on eBay, etc., that there's almost no reason not to have both. Oh, and remember, the Kiev finders will fit the Hasselblads and they're REALLY cheap if money is tight...I think they only come in 45-degrees.</p>

[BrianS1664879711]

<p>I'm using a 90 at the moment (old one; can't remember the designation) and have come to the conclusion that someone with a prominent nose, as I have been told I have, should be using a 45. No kidding!</p>

[Aoresteen]

<p>On a tripod the 90 is prefered. Hand held I prefer the 45. Can you try them out before you decide?</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>My view: the 90 degrees is less comfortable. It makes you raise a handheld camera in front of your face, which - though only a little bit higher - is a far less steady and comfortable position than the one you assume using a 45 degree prism.<br>

On a tripod, a 90 degree is fine, but only if you have raised the camera far enough for the eyepiece to be at eye level. When you bend down to view through the finder of a camera below eye level, the 45 degree angle of is exactly right, while the 90 degree demands an act of contortionism.</p>

<p>And then there is the magnification thing Edward mentioned. Alos in favour of the 45 degree prisms.</p>

<p>The only time i can't really do without a 90 degree prism is when if have a 6x4.5 magazine on my camera. (Why, Edward, would a Mamiya be far easier to use? I have a Mamiya, and found nothing of the sort.)<br>

Else, the 45 degree is by far the best, most comfortable prism.</p>

 

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>A Mamiya 645, like a Contax 645 or Hasselblad Hxxx, is ergonomically designed to be used at eye level, similar to a 35mm camera. All have some form of right hand grip and the shutter release is conveniently located under your index finger, and wind it with your thumb if it is not motorized. You can use the camera vertically without straining, almost as easily as in the horizontal position.</p>

<p>An Hasselblad "V" camera is much harder to use at eye level. If you don't use a grip with a release, you have to twist your wrist uncomfortably to use the shutter release. Most people prefer to use a left-hand grip, or one mounted under the camera. The right hand must remain free to wind the camera, unless you use one of the motor winders (which also serves as a grip). It can be done, but most people would agree that the Mamiya type of body is easier.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>I don't agree, Edward.</p>

<p>A hand grip sticks out, puts your hand awy from the camera. It creates a lever, one end of which is weighed down by the camera, the other end is in your hand, and with no fulcrum, your wrist (even further out) has to do all it can to keep the thing from dropping down. Very uncomfortable.</p>

<p>If you flip the camera on the side, the hand grip is moved in an arc, from aside the camera to a distance above the camera. Your hand, your enire arm, will have to follow that movement, and is forced to arc in again a very uncormfortable way.</p>

<p>Without grip... well you know the left hand grip. Hands near the center of gravity. Minimal strain.</p>

<p>If you flip the camera (without a right hand grip attached to it) on its side, the way you hold the thing changes, but still your hands are cupping the camera. Now your right index finger has no trouble at al landing on the release button, while the rest of your right hand is cradling the camera. The left supports the front of the camera with the left hand fingers working the lens.<br>

All very compact. But most of all very easy, very comfortable.</p>

<p>So perhaps most people may agree that having a boom sticking out of the side of the camera, your hand having to hold the end of that boom, is comfortable.<br>

But t sure isn't! ;-)</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>With a Mamiya 645 or 35mm camera, I operate the camera with my right hand and support it with the left. For vertical shots, I tilt the camera to the left, and raise my right elbow to compensate. Again, the weight is on the left hand, centered and balanced as you prefer. If necessary, I focus with the left hand - fingers on the lens but supporting the body with the palm of my hand. This is really classic stuff, if you've ever used a Nikon or Leica.</p>

<p>A few people (ala HCB) hold a Leica tilted to the right, operating the shutter and winder with their thumb, supporting the weight on folded fingers. I suppose this make it less obvious that you have a camera stuck to your face. I find that awkward, and since I shoot where I'm welcome, unnecessary.</p>

<p>Perhaps you are thinking of a Mamiya RB/RZ. There's nothing ergonomic about that camera whatsoever, but at least you can rotate the back.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>Yes, Edward. That's exactly wat i'm talking about.<br>

You do have a 'grip', but need to support the camera with your left hand, because you can't hold it straight using the hand gripping the 'grip' alone.<br>

So both your hands are tight up holding the camera alone. If you need one to, say, change aperture, it has to be the left, and you are then facing the task of figuring out ways to do that while still supporting the camera, lest your right hand wrist collapses under the strain that having all the weight of your camera plus finder and lens on the end of a lever puts on it.</p>

<p>And when you turn the camera on its side, your arm goes up, as if you were directing traffic, while still not improving on the 'no-grip' way you hold a camera like a V-System Hasselblad (or Bronica, or the old Mamiya 645, or ...), nor on the bad ergonomics of 'grippy' cameras.</p>

<p>It's nothing like using 35 mm SLRs or rangefinders, unless you put those on the bracket of a flash unit like the Metz 45 series.<br>

Then you get a taste of the same rotten ergonomics.</p>

<p>But it may indeed have something to do with 35 mm cameras: these grip thingies were invented to entice 35 mm shooters to try medium format. Just like the Pentax 6x7's silly shape appeals to people who think that that is a camera's natural shape.<br>

But it still is not the best way to hold a camera at all.</p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p><em>So both your hands are tight up holding the camera alone. If you need one to, say, change aperture, it has to be the left, and you are then facing the task of figuring out ways to do that while still supporting the camera, lest your right hand wrist collapses under the strain that having all the weight of your camera plus finder and lens on the end of a lever puts on it.</em></p>

<p>What better way to keep the camera steady than to use both hands, camera pressed against your face?</p>

<p>I keep my left thumb and finger(s) around the lens while supporting the camera with the palm of my hand. I can reach the aperture, shutter ring or focusing ring without taking the camera from my face. With a modern 645 camera and all DSLRs, you can read the shutter speed and aperture in the viewfinder. My Nikons go a step further, and control aperture and shutter speed with dials under the right hand.</p>

<p>My wrist doesn't collapse holding the camera, and I'm probably as old or older than you. In fact, I usually carry a camera like this in my right hand only until ready to shoot. It's much easier than carrying a 500 Hasselblad, which dangles from a neck or hand strap when not in the bag or on a tripod.</p>

<p>You know all of this. Why do you have to act like such a codger?</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

<p>Why, Edward?<br>

Because it is true what i say. Moving the camera out to somewhere to the left of the grip is, quite simply, not a good idea.<br>

If a grip, a pistol grip would be much better, keeping the weight of the camera above your hand, instead of using it to put a strain on the wrist (were it not that having a thing stick out of the bottom is rather annoying).<br>

And yes, it does put a strain on your wrist. You have to counter the leverage of the weight on the end of the grip constantly. Unless you provide relief by putting your other hand below the camera.</p>

<p>So yes, using both hands you can still hold a camera with side grip steady. Just like a camera without grip.<br>

The main difference is that the gripless camera, specially those allowing the left hand grip, puts the weight firmly in your hand to begin with, without needing (!) that second hand to steady it.<br>

Why have a grip if, like you, you hold the camera the same way you would hold a grip-less camera? What would be the benefit of having that thing? What made you say that it would be much easier?</p>

[zdenek]

<p>Thank you all for more than exhaustive answers. You confirm what I have supposed - PM45 will be the choice.<br>

Zdenek</p>