Camera and lens speak -- how to fund hobbies

[hinman]

<p>I am constantly in struggles in not picking up any of my cameras and lenses. However, they do speak in a silent voice for a photographer for a picture, a stroll in my neighborhood, a story to be told, a poem in the making, a song to be sung and a journey to be discovered.</p>

<p><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1417/4733413882_52b1cc5fe7.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="332" /></p>

<p>For heaven sake, I wish I have the all the time as a full time professional who can use my gear to the fullest and that I can fund my hobbies without guilt. It is not my Dell, not my macbook but my Pentax is calling me for actions. But it is expensive to fund our beloved hobbies as an enthusiasts. All the gear, accessories and film processing put a dampen effect on the hobby. Are there practical means others have thought about in funding their hobbies?</p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>I find the more scarce resource for hobbies is finding time.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Except for using photography as an often integral part of my actual profession, I've never been a professional photographer, so I can write about it with absolutely no bias ("By rocking chair across photography," if any of you remember Atkinson and Searle's fantastic books).<br /> However, based on other life experiences, I have to say that I suspect that for that "song to be sung," you might have to photograph an awful lot of bratty kids and brides from hell first.</p>

<p>As Berthold Brecht's character in <em>Three Penny Opera</em> put it,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>First grub, then ethics.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>or in this context,</p>

<blockquote>

<p>First grub, then "poems in the making"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I <em>can</em> recommend retiring so you can do whatever you want, so long as you don't break the law or get caught.</p>

<p> </p>

[craigd]

<p>I'm with Andrew. Time is the real problem.</p>

<p>Any guilt you feel over the money spent on your hobby reflects a psychological conflict -- it really has nothing to do with the money.</p>

[markci]

<p>Unless you have some fairly exacting technical requirements, photography can be done pretty cheaply these days. The old film gear is being given away, and if you go digital you don't have to buy film and processing. I would guess that you're probably the victim of marketing. You can do a lot with a Holga and Tri-X if you want to, or any number of inexpensive digitals. If money is keeping you from your hobby, you are doing it wrong.</p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>I just want unlimited time AND money for my hobbies. Or people to pay me a nice living to just take the photos I want to take.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I agree with Mark. The only way that sort of goes wrong is when your hobby (as in photography) drifts into a direction where it's a particular subject matter - like very small flying birds, or sports action happening at sunset - that can be difficult to satisfactorily enjoy without pretty serious equipment. Half the battle is in <em>choosing</em> your battles so that your expectations and enjoyment mesh well with the budget.<br /><br />I'm quite happy with my gear. It's time and the funds needed to put me in different <em>places</em> that cause me to re-calibrate my expectations.</p>

[hinman]

<p>I agree that time is most constraint when compared to the money side of the hobby. But my question has more to do on <strong>"how do our hobby can fund itself"</strong> if there are practical means to do so without resorting to be full time professional. It kind of leaning toward a freelance job that is no longer a job but a passion to live through.</p>

<p>The picture is a portrait of my Pentax 645N. I wish I know what Justin knows in developing your own film to cut down on cost. At the moment, I still rely on a trusty lab to outsource the film processing part. I do have a cheapo Canon 8800F flatbed scanner for the digital scanning part but on 35mm, it falls short to turn my b&w into digital formats. The cost do add up.</p>

<p> </p>

[mountainvisions]

 

<blockquote>

<p>I find the more scarce resource for hobbies is finding time.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I find time and money equal. Often money comes at the expense of time, but time without money is almost as useless. For my needs my ability to move a day or two of work around here or there and not miss a beat was awesome, 3 day weekends 1-2 times a month, and 4 day weekends every 5 weeks was great since I mostly travel within the region.</p>

<p>It's a fine line for sure. Since my job isn't too invasive on my time (although it's gotten significantly more so over the last 1-2 years, as noticed by the fact I didn't make some of the recent NYC events that I would have had no problems with a few years ago), I try to make my photography just offset my photography cost rather than be a second time consuming job. If I can cover my cost, or most of them in a year I'm thrilled. So I don't go out of my way to spend more time than I have to behind the camera for SOMEONE ELSES needs, of course I really don't mind shooting frequently for my own pleasure!</p>

<p>The 645N was really just a hobby buy for me. I don't believe I've sold more than 1 image from it. Nor have I taken very many.As a matter of fact, I have a small backlog of film I've been meaning to process!</p>

<p>However, I do enjoy shooting black and white with it, and I really enjoy the difference in DOF I get from it. Plus, the giant view finder makes focusing pretty easy. I found 35mm format was lacking in comparison to my current 10 and 14MP DSLRs for most things. However, black and white STILL to me looks significantly better on film than it does even with all the fancy digital grain and emulsion generators that are on the market.</p>

<p>So while I have shot a few rolls of Provia with the 645N, I most got it and will continue to use it for B&W.</p>

<p>The processing is really easy, Hin.</p>

<p>I'd recommend some Kodak HC-110. It keeps forever if you break it down into smaller bottles of concentrate once you open it. The whole chemical cost was under $100 for countless rolls of film, and this includes the fact that I generally only do 1 roll at a time. If I did 2-4 rolls at a time the cost would be even less. I need a bigger processing tank though!</p>

<p>Basically, you dilute the HC-110 to a weak dilution and stand develop it for in the neighborhood of 20 minutes depending on your exposure, native ISO, temp, and various other factors. The fixer is really your only additional cost. I DO NOT use a chemical stop bath, I just rinse it several times. This cuts cost even more, and it's debatable if you need to use a stop bath or not. So it cost me less than $2 total for many rolls of film, this includes the film itself. Not really a huge expense, considering if I'm firing off roll after roll I'd probably use my DSLR.</p>

<p>The advantage of no agitation developement is it keeps the highlights from being blown out, and it also makes for more consistent results. Those 4 minute developements really rely on perfect accuracy each time, the longer the development the less a few seconds here or there really matter.</p>

<p>The whole setup really takes up about a 1x2 ft footprint when not in use, and when I'm using it, everything is done at the kitchen sink. Since it's not powder based, I don't have to worry about making a really big mess either. I'm sure that would be a concern for you with kids around the house.</p>

<p>I'd recommend picking up a Minolta Scan Dual IV for your 35mm. It's not the absolute best scanner on the market but it definitely does a very decent job. I'd printed quite a few prints from it over the years. I'm very happy with it for prints in the medium size range (like 8x10 to 11x14) or even slightly larger. You can get one of these for probably MORE than they sold for new, but still a good deal for the quality. The higher level Minolta Scanners are tough to find, and really expensive. The quality might not be as drastic though as the current prices might indicate. Besides, you can always send out the 1-2 really really important shots you take for a drum scan!</p>

 

 

[mountainvisions]

<blockquote>

<p>Or people to pay me a nice living to just take the photos I want to take.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well said! My feelings exactly, I want to be paid for the photos I want to take, not that someone else wants me to take. Otherwise it's just another job.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Half the battle is in <em>choosing</em> your battles so that your expectations and enjoyment mesh well with the budget.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Also a good comment. It's really true, only a very small amount of photography requires very serious equipment. Even sports doesn't really provided you can get field level access. Wildlife, birds, serious low light stuff (like surveilance stuff) does require a vast expense to achieve superior results, but very few other things do.</p>

<p>Hobbyist, however, tend to spend more on photography than do people making a living off it to begin with!</p>

[shots worth sharing]

<blockquote>Hobbyist, however, tend to spend more on photography than do people making a living off it to begin with!</blockquote>

<p><em>Bingo!</em> It would be impossible to make a business case for the gear I've got.</p>

[User_502260]

<p>One of my High School friends gave up teaching and became an event photographer years ago. He used to say that if a piece of equipment was not used in 6 months, he would sell it. What if he needed it again? He would rent or buy it at that time. Another High School friend worked as a medical photographer for many years and accumulated a lot of odd pieces of equipment which might be used at some point. I am a hobbyist and the collection I have would never be needed by someone who takes pictures for a living. I have seven different 50/1.4 manual focus Nikkors. Why do I have so many? Because I like collecting and using them. If I only needed them for shooting then one or two would be fine. I am very behind on my b&w photography. If I only shot b&w and used my existing supplies of film, paper and chemicals I could go for years without buying anything new. Digital photography allows some enjoyment if you like looking at pictures on a monitor but still costs money if you want to make prints. </p>

[snik75]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Bingo!</em> It would be impossible to make a business case for the gear I've got.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>HA! Dave, I am SO with you. Luckily my wife and I have a healthy DADT policy about camera gear and skin care products, respectively.</p>

[hinman]

<p>@Nick, what is the DADT policy. Please share the tips. It is always a fail argument with my boys, wife and my conscience. Tonight, I will open up my DA 15 f/4.0 limited with 2 day delivery from BHPhoto. I confessed to them on Wednesday, a day after the online purchase. I don't need the lens but I just want it in my traveling. Do I deserve the lens? Hell no! It is another $520 expense in the household. And of course, I wish everyone of my buddy have the lens to share our thoughts. Justin is the #1 Pentaxian friends who deserves the lens for FREE from Pentax not as a loaner but an evangelist person like the Pentaxian four.</p>

<p>I can't ridicule my wife on the shoe's argument on woman as my wife has less number of shoes than me. She is absolutely frugal on shoes. Though I am going for the last resort on her 10+ count of her hats. Honey, my hat is no more than 1/10th the cost of your lens. Hey, sweetheart, my lens produces great pictures for you with post-card like landscape background that your hats will love to see. Arguments will be moot tonight.</p>

<p>Yes, there is never a business case in my household that I am proud of. To put things into perspective. I am not wanting/needing a 645D. How do one come up with a plan to buy 645D plus 4 lens and end up cost even with some money that can be made in 2 years? I am vague and hope you get some idea. Please don't get me wrong, I am not buying a 645D. But if you have good ideas, maybe we all can afford a 645D in the making. Not in 20 years from now but when it is available in US. What say you?</p>

[jeremy_corbin]

<p>Hin, You've already figured out that you're blessed as far as the ability to own the Limiteds. I'm still trying to decide what LTD to buy for portraits whie I save for one. I don't even have ONE Limited! HA! Consider yourself lucky if your wife doesn't make you sleep on the couch for a month.</p>

<p>If you ever want to loan me your DA40 or DA70 so that you can "share" with you fellow Pentaxians, let me know!</p>

[hinman]

<p>@Jeremiah, thanks for the support. I know that I am very blessed but the hobby really goes against the frugal person in me. I have grown to love the hobby in both film and digital. I bought all of my limited lens used and the 15 and 35 are exceptions.</p>

<p>For portraits, I will recommend highly on DA 70. If money is a concern, a used copy of A 50 f/1.7 for $70 or a used copy of Jupiter9 85mm f/2.0 for about $125 will do just fine. The cost comes with new lens in AF and of course there is a price tag to go with newer lens. I just shot this snapshot portrait with my friend with DA 70. It is not a good setup as I have to use iso 400, f/4.0, and 1/15 seconds hand-held indoor. I don't have my bounced flash. I paid mine for roughly $430 used. Can I do that with a cheaper lens? Definite yes but perhaps more trials to achieve similar results.</p>

<p><img src="http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1359/4734019267_955d336ee7_b.jpg" alt="" width="615" height="925" /></p>

[davidmantilla]

Hin,

 

Been following your posts here on photo.net for about two years now, I always enjoy your posts and your beautiful photos. I have been living vicariously through you in regards to LBA/CBA, right now itching to buy a camera I want (and kind of need ;) -- the k-x.

 

<blockquote>I know that I am very blessed but the hobby really goes against the frugal person in me. I have grown to love the hobby in both film and digital. I bought all of my limited lens used and the 15 and 35 are exceptions.</blockquote>

<p>

Photography can be expensive, but at least you are creating something. The camera and its lenses are tools that enable you to create art. (The same cannot usually be said about shoes and hats). You mentioned the hobby goes against your "frugal" side, but at least the lenses can be resold and you can recoup most of your money back (if not make a profit).

</p><p>

I enjoy your blog, and think there's potential in it. Have you seen Ken Rockwell's blog? <a href="http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm">http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/recommended-cameras.htm</a> He gets referral revenue when people click on "Amazon" or "Adorama" to buy their gear after reading his post. I know you do link exchange, but are you doing these referral revenue things? I think you could add a "recommended Pentax cameras/lenses" section to your blog and get the referral revenue. You have great sample photos, much much better than the other "lens review" sites.

</p>

 

<blockquote>

I confessed to them on Wednesday, a day after the online purchase. I don't need the lens but I just want it in my traveling. Do I deserve the lens? Hell no! It is another $520 expense in the household.

</blockquote>

<p>

You have a wealth of info on your site, and I think it is a big service to the community you are sharing it with all of us. I just hope everyone in the family is enjoying the purchases; not just in getting their photos snapped, but also in taking the photos, helping with lighting, etc. Some of my fondest memories growing up was my dad letting me use his film camera to snap photos of my friends, and when at the age of 7 filmed some home videos using his VHS "portable" camcorder (his guilty purchase back in 1986 when these things were really, really expensive and large & bulky). Years later, I find myself w/ a Pentax digital camera in my hand, and I'm happy again :)

</p><p>

Enjoy the new lens! If anything, maybe it's time for another 3-month LBA moratorium... like in 2008.

</p>

[hinman]

<p>@David, I am so proud that you remember my 3-month LBA moratorium. I did go through hell afterward as I bought more stuff before the moratorium. It fixes the symptoms temporarily but not the root cause of curiosity, peer pressure, lust in the sake of ownership, the twisted mind with excitement waiting for the UPS|fedEx|USPS truck. </p>

<p>Thanks for the affiliate suggestion of my blog page. I only have a small number of frequent readers and please visit often. My blog advertising does bring in some little money. It is nothing to brag about unfortunately as it is really making nickel and dimes here and there. Roughly for every 8 bucks I spend in gear, I get 1 to 2 bucks of revenue from advertising as a publisher. If I look at the monetary side of the thing, it is a misery with the time I spent on the hobby that includes the blogging side of thing. I enjoy the blogging side not just because of the money involved but the learning process along with great Pentaxian friends made. I am not a person with good business sense and mind and hence the dreaming if there are solid ideas in not giving up the dream that the hobby can pay off the expenses equally. For instance, if Pentax comes out with a FF or a mirrorless hybrid FF , I can have a plan to buy it with no guilt but have a solid planning to get even in a short time. </p>

[hinman]

<p>@Justin, thanks for all of your inputs on films. And the DA 15mm f/4.0 did arrive today. What a beautiful lens the 15 is. Pentax did it right on this 15 in terms of size. It is very cute, it is small though not a pancake small. It is closer in size to the 21mm. That is a surprise to me. The lens hood again is the metal lens hood that Josh hates about the limited lens. I am not a big fan of the lens hood in all the limited lens. But this one is special or maybe tedious to some but I find it intriguing as it is thin and screw mount. You have to pay attention to this lens. You deserve this lens more than I do. What the hell I know in landscape pictures! I have high confidence you will fall in love at first sight with this lens. I know I exaggerate a bit. Every limited shares similar characters but they all have something different. I thought the 21 has won my heart, wait till you see my face when I shot the 15mm f/4.0 tonight after sunset in f/4.0. The size, performance wide open blows me away even in the dark. Pentax did it right again in this DA limited. I'll be damned if they come out with a FF. I don't give a xhit on FF as long as Pentax give me a vanilla body so that I can reuse all of my DA/FA lens.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Hin, </p>

<p>As always thanks for the kind words. </p>

<p>Unless your hobby is damaging your families ability to pay the bills now, or in the near future, I really don't see a problem with it. Hobbies are by definition a waste of time and money, but most people find them necessary regardless. </p>

<p>If nothing else, your wife and kids will have some very nice photos of your life together. I know every year or so all my wifes mother wants for Christmas or Morthers Day or whatever gift giving occasion is a complete family portrait and a nice photo of her kids and grandkids families. </p>

<p>I think as everyone noted, you probably could pare your equipment down to the bare minimum if you really wanted to. Although it seems like you already have from a while back when you seem to have had several other zoom lenses as well. I tend to look at the Limiteds are potential investments. I've been pretty lucky to actually make a profit or break even on most of the Pentax mount glass I have sold. </p>

<p>Of course I am very interested to hear your thoughts on the DA 15mm too!</p>

<p> </p>

[michael_elenko]

<blockquote>

<p>It fixes the symptoms temporarily but not the root cause of curiosity, peer pressure, lust in the sake of ownership, the twisted mind with excitement waiting for the UPS|fedEx|USPS truck.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Hin, I enjoy reading your blog, and viewing your shots, especially of your beautiful family. I also greatly admire and respect your honesty in reflecting about your self-concerns here.<br /><br />I’m going to try to reciprocate that honesty.<br /><br />Because I don’t see in your reasoning anything about creating images or “photography,” I suggest that you give some thought as to exactly what your hobby is?<br /><br />Because, you know, gear--even great gear--is not photography.<br /><br />I’m inclined to believe that consuming and the thrill of anticipating new stuff is what drives you. Does the rush of the FedEx visit wear off pretty soon leaving you with the need to ramp it up again? <br /><br />This does get pretty expensive. <br /><br />And you know, in the big picture, it means nada. As one who has spent too many hours during the past 10 months fretting about whether my kids are going to be motherless (let alone my own potential widowerhood after 27 years of marriage), I’ll say it again: it means nothing. It’s just stuff.<br /><br />Give your credit card to your lovely wife, and then give yourself. <br /><br />Make sure that lust for owning photo gear is in second place or lower on your personal lust list :)<br /><br /><br />ME<br /><br /><br /></p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>Had to think about it for a moment but I believe DADT = Don't Ask, Don't Tell.</p>

[ricardovaste]

<p>I had similar feelings to the OP when I was first getting into photography and shot film for a long time. Money was tight, you always wanted to shoot more than you did but because of the cost of film and processing and enlarging you had to hold back a little. Since I went digital, all changed. I no longer had costs constantly on my back. It also meant that I was basically shooting for free, which in turn gave me 'free change' compared to before... that allowed me to save up and get lenses that I'd always wanted to try.</p>

<p>Perhaps not much help to you, but thought I'd share anyway.</p>

[hinman]

<p>@ME, thanks for the honest feedback and concerns. Photography is not about gear hunting and I see gear as tools in making photography. I hope you don't see me as someone ignoring my family in the hobby. I will fiercely defend it myself but your point is well taken. </p>

<p>Photography to me is all about preserving memory and communicate what I see and explore in my daily life. Be it small and insignificant as a bee in my backyard or something bigger as a mallard in my neighborhood, photography helps me to communicate what I have seen. It preserves the priceless memory I have with my family and it shows my past and present, and it preserves something that I hold dear. When I see your wife's hands, it speak volume with tears to me and it is priceless in the memory and the communication it has conveyed to me as an audience. I have been trying to cut down on gear and credit card balance is always zero. I never pay any interest on credit card debt except late payment fine charges. Giving my credit card to my wife may not help as much as I pay my gear in paypal where I finance with previously sold gear funds and some small income from blogging and freelance work. </p>

<p>Yes, I do need to cut down on my gear. But that is not the question that I intend to raise in this thread. My original question is seeking ideas for self-funding in the hobby with photography as a passion but NOT as a mundane job in the weekend and spare time. Maybe it is trivial and obvious to many of you. It is not for me. I thought about freelancing as a part time photographer in events, portraits and stock photography. But that feels like another job in the making that will ruin the weekends with my family. I can't imagine if I don't lose any weekends with my boys if I take up on a paid photo shooting as an assistant photog. I don't want a job that takes away my weekend time with my family. Maybe I am confused myself what I am looking for. </p>

<p>Thanks for the honest inputs, your points are well taken.</p>

[hinman]

<blockquote>

<p>Had to think about it for a moment but I believe DADT = Don't Ask, Don't Tell.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks for getting that straighten out for me. That won't work in my household as I try to stick with the ideals in transparency and honesty with my family.</p>