Nikon D5000 or Nikon F4

[alastair_anderson]

<p>Although I can accept that this is not a film vs digital thread, to me it does lead in that direction. I've just realised - and this is a genuine epiphany, an original idea to me, no matter how many others may have voiced it - why I'm so attached to my old manual gear. It is precisely because it was so much more difficult to make an acceptable photograph 'in the old days' before everything turned electronic that for me photography was a more worthwhile pursuit in those days. The fact that anyone can now make 600 perfectly exposed images in an afternoon with very little effort devalues the whole process for me. A digital picture is intrinsically pretty cheap. A lot less effort goes into making it and therefore it's not as valuable. Somehow the knowledge of this fact is transferred to the equipment. I value the Nikon F, not because it is simpler to use but because it is a symbol of times past.</p>

[gene_aker2]

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1496569">Alastair</a>, well some may view this discussion as digi vs film. But I think it's more about the difference types of photographic experience. For my job, I"m thankful not to develop film, make contacts, choose prints for routine public relations. But for my personal experience, I enjoy all that thinking, musing, looking and create something with my own hands. <br>

For routine advertising, students and personal assistants can shoot digital pictures that work perfectly for newsletter. No need for an old geezer with 40 years experience!</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<blockquote>

<p>"...I think it's more about the difference types of photographic experience."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ditto, Gene. The OP's conundrum is familiar to me. In 2005 I actually pondered whether to ditch all my Nikon gear in favor of the Leica MP reissue (and probably only one Leica lens, the rest would have been Cosina-made to suit my budget). My first and main love remains b&w film. But I couldn't adapt to the rangefinder focusing. Tried and tried again, no dice. Just doesn't come naturally to me.</p>

<p>The alternative was the D2H, just to get my feet wet in serious digital. When Nikon announced the closeout/blowout fire sale price, my mind was made up. I got the D2H and kept my Nikon film gear.</p>

<p>It's still about taking photos, not the gear. I only care about the gear insofar as it helps me make photos. But the OP's D5000 or F4 predicament doesn't seem at all odd to me. Been there. (Personally, I'd consider a "D90 or F100" over the D5000/F4.)</p>

<p>BTW, Gene, I heartily approve of your use of the appropriate word "or" rather than the tiresome "vs." which tends to create unnecessary false conflicts. If I had my druthers "versus", "vs." and all of that ilk would be permabanned from use in photo.net discussion thread titles. I actually did that for a few months on the b&w forums but it provoked too much angst among folks who insist on false dichotomies as a means of provoking conflict rather than inviting informed, considered discussions.</p>

[jeffrypittman]

<p>I've shot Minolta/Sony and Leica for years and only in the last few years started shooting Nikon because I fell in love not with a D3x, D700 etc. but a F6, F5 and F4 (I bought a D700 only to have a backup digital to the greatest film SLR cameras even made!). Shoot what you love. My best work comes from my F4, F6 and an old Rollei TLR. (OK, the D700 gets some great low light shots I can't get with film...).</p>

 

[rossb]

<p> I am really interested in using Leica film gear but it's so expensive. I would be so afraid of dropping the big dollars on the gear and having the film think blow out on me. My wife would pitch a big fit if I bought into something like that and then could not use it. It certainly could happen. I suppose I should just shoot my Nikon SLR and be happy. It is kind of bulky to take on my bicycle trips and rides. Probably a Bessa would work out well if it's durable enough to take the bouncing and vibration. BHPhot.com does not have any Bessa camera's right now and I wonder why that is. MY D200 is definately to heavy to lug around on a bike.</p>

[gene_aker2]

<p>Ross: <br>

 

<p ><strong >Wednesday, June 23, 2010</strong></p>

<p ><strong >Happy memories from 25 years ago, on my 10 speed pedaling around town late in the evening, with a F3 strapped to the handlebars. Talk about minimal. Just a 50 1.8 lens (and yellow filter). Two extra rolls Tri X and a bottle of water. I loved that Nikon----finely crafted, silky machined gears—advancing the film was a pleasure, high eyepoint, heavily center-weighted metering, brass showing through the black enamel on worn corners. High eyepoint. Battery lasted a year or so. That was the sort of independence that I remember. The user side of “minimal” experience.</strong></p>

<p ><strong >I could also write about the Nikon 3a the same way. When Nikon premiered the 3a, I got a new body for about $500. What a silky camera! Minimal. Only what a photographer needed, nothing more. I carried it around Europe in a coat pocket on many winter trips. </strong></p>

<p ><strong >Now that I think about it, the experience of using those cameras us what I remember more than the pictures! </strong></p>

</p>

[gene_aker2]

<p>

<p >Lex: “<em >Ditto, Gene. The OP's conundrum is familiar to me. In 2005 I actually pondered whether to ditch all my Nikon gear in favor of the Leica MP reissue (and probably only one Leica lens, the rest would have been Cosina-made to suit my budget).”</em><em ></em></p>

<p ><strong ><em >Lex, I’m </em></strong><strong >thinking about the new digital 35mm for my Nikon 5000 --as a way of recovering the Leica experience—one camera, one lens. Keeping it all simple. Now, can I default the camera to shoot monochrome? I have found the monochrome setting; I”d love to make it permanent (for whole shoot, not change each picture—or do it later in post). </strong></p>

<p ><strong >My dream is for a small digital black and white slr!</strong><strong ></strong></p>

</p>

[rossb]

<p>Hi Gene: Memories are great for sure. Over the years I have had quite a few camera's that I carried on my bike. I used to have a Ricoh rangefinder that worked great but it broke. Then an Oly OM-1 which was a neat camera but bulky. One time I was cycling from Santa Cruz Ca to a friends house in LA. All along the coast in Big Sur I was taking pictures. It was great and then that evening while camping I realized I had no film in the camera. I still laugh at myself over that one. Then I lost the Oly a few years later while car camping and then I went down the Minolta manual focus way with at least 6 different models that all broke. Then a Nikon FE2 that broke and now a Nikon N80 which is working fine for the present. It has the power grip on it and it's fills up most of a pannier bag. I made a handlebar mounted mono pod that I have not used in years but I used to all the time. It's still in the garage however. It's part camera stuff and part handlebar headlight stuff. It does work for a small camera like the Ricoh which I made it for.. I wish I could have that little Ricoh rangefinder brand new all over again. One problem with shooting film these days is the camera's are really getting old. I have never had a camera fixed that stayed fixed either. But I must say I remember each of my camera's and the places we went. </p>

[Alex_Es]

<p>Gene's main argument in his initial post was that the controls on the D5000 were hard to deal with as compared to the controls on film cameras. He may have a valid point, and it has little to do with age. The fact is that digital photography is young and as such still somewhat messy. Simplification of controls comes with the increased sophistication of the machine. Compare the Barnack Leica to the M Leica, the Nikon S to the Nikon SP. I rebelled against the first personal computers because they brain blood vessel busting hard to use. Then along came the Mac, Microsoft Word and the modern printer and I knew I would never have to use a typewriter again.</p>

<p>Photoshop 7 and then CS-2 liberated me. No longer did I have to depend on others to do my pix for me. I never had the dexterity for setting up and dealing with the traditional darkroom. I am essentially digital, even when I start out with film.</p>

<p>Thus far, all my Nikons are film cameras. I have been on the verge of buying a Nikon DSLR and the weight of the body with lens has put my off. I am spoiled by my Leicas. I do own a Leica M8 and Epson RD-1s (on which I used Nikon lenses). I am waiting for the lightweight full frame Nikon DSLR. <br>

My film cameras, including my Nikons, have their specific uses. I happen to like the aesthetics of film when it is properly scanned. I prefer film cameras for street photography because I believe they are less conspicuous and less threatening than digital cameras. </p>

<p>To tell the truth, I do not find present digital cameras all that confusing--I just ignore whatever I do not understand :-)</p>

<p>As far as the traditional darkroom goes, I do regret never having mastered it. But that said, I prefer the compactness and sanitation of my digital darkroom. </p>

<p>And I know there is a digital Nikon in my future.</p>

[gene_aker2]

<p>Thanks. I just got back from an overnight trip--did a little photography, taking only the D5000. I've made friends with it to some degree. Even though I've used led screens for 10 or more years, they are still slow and hard to see in outdoor light. When I switched from center-weighted-to spot-to matrix. I was scrolling. <br>

However, today I'm shooting a Gay Pride parade--It will be noon; it will be full-on sunny; I will be in a crowd. I gotta go with the F4 or F5. I gotta quickly glance down and use the switches and dials; I can't wait for the screen to "wake-up." Or suddenly "go-off." <br>

The "Playback" feature is a "killer-application" with digital photography. It's a curse and a blessing.<br>

Alex, I sure hear you with regard to the "compactness and sanitation of my digital darkroom." I have scanned my black and white 8x10 prints. The scanned prints are different, but I do like them. I would like to compare a "monochrome" D5000 picture to a scanned print---as they appear on the monitor. That's my next project. </p>

 

[jens_g.r._benthien]

<p>There is one important feature the F4s offers: Freeze Focus or Focus Trap. None of the later models or DSLRs had this particular feature :-)<br>

OK, to be honest you need the MD-23 Databack to use the Freeze Focus, but anyway, the F4s still is a workhorse for me.</p>