best lens for hospital delivery room/OR

[adamczyk]

<p>Hi William W<br>

I don't know how many times have you been in the delivery room yourself, twice for me and I have to say few things. There were plenty of lights in the room, anyone using flash during the actual delivery is only asking for trouble so higher ISO is a must, no lower then 400 and most of the shots came in at ISO 800. We were lucky enough that our rooms came with windows so there was extra light coming in.<br>

A mono pod could solve some issues. Its small, light, will give you extra stability. The newborn is hardly moving around the first 24-48 hours so you don't need fast shutter speeds. Mom understand the importance of holding still, so dad should perhaps practice his steadiness, go with Av mode and keep shooting. <br>

I did have a faster lens with me, but it did not do me any good since the DOF was a bit too shallow for my taste (I like to see both eyes in focus on my kids, especially since both came with beautiful baby blues). Since Kelly's husband seems to have some issues with photo taking, putting on a f1.4 lens on the camera may only make things worse. So what if you have that extra stop or two, if you don't know what to do with it. I am not saying that he is a bad photographer, but the stress of fatherhood, plus a very expensive lens, plus shallow DOF, plus Kelly's concerns will probably add up to more missed opportunities, the one thing she fear. That is just my take on it.<br>

One more thing that I will say about the 24 mm is that it just might be a bit too wide, distorting the features of the Mother and the Baby, when you what to take a close up, cropping later may only leave you wishing you had a longer lens, because your 8x10 or 11x14 seems a bit choppy, especially at higher ISO. I will agree with you about a wide ange fixed lens though. A fixed wide lens is the key, a little bit of walking around the room will force the photographer to be more creative. <br>

Tom</p>

[adamczyk]

<p>One more thing, my post does not apply to OR rooms, the lighting can be very unpredictable. </p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>I love how most of us looks at this like a paid shoot. If I had to rent one lens for this, it would be the 17-55 2.8 IS and set the camera on P mode with an ISO of 800, give to hubby and tell him to shoot like a wild man. As a back-up have him prop a camcorder on a tripod away from everyone's reach and zoom in the general area. I'm sure between the 2 methods, you will some great memories. Good luck v/r Buffdr</p>

[cabbiinc]

<p>Some doctors allow cameras, others don't. I've experienced both within the last 5 years. I'd contact the hospital and ask. Doctors are wary of possible evidence to use against them in court should a frivolous lawsuit be filed.</p>

<p>A wide angle zoom is probably fine, the kit lens if you feel confident, a 17-55 f/2.8 if not. I'd go for ISO 400 but might bump to 800. To get an f/1.4 lens then hand it to someone who's not a photographer may mean that you'll have a lot of pics just out of focus where you want it. F/2.8 may be too shallow at times.</p>

<p>A 430EX(i or ii) would be fine, however you may want to keep the flash to a minimum. The last thing you want is a blind doctor when that precious life is in his hands.</p>

<p>I'd think twice about a point and shoot, they're known for slow focusing and this is one of those times that you'll want to focus quickly.</p>

<p>Congrats and good luck.</p>

[jonathan_lui]

<p>As a new dad, I would suggest letting your husband savor the moment, rather than have to bother with YOUR SLR.</p>

<p>I didn't bring my SLR to the OR, only brought a P&S. If I had brought my SLR, I would have been more concerned about getting photos, rather than spending the first few minutes with my son and the new mother.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Tom, thanks for answering in such detail about the ISO and the lighting you experienced.</p>

<p>Twice in a Delivery Room to answer your question; once in an Operating Theatre; and more than a few times at a Post M. I have not been at a Caesarean Section delivery. However, most of my working life I have been shooting AL only.</p>

<p>The OP mentions an “OR” so I assume she expects the procedure will be done in an Operating Theatre and by all accounts written here, her Husband will be removed from the Bright Lights and the Procedure Area during the Caesar.</p>

<p>I think that delivery Rooms vary around the World, as do the Birthing Choices which are available.</p>

<p>In the two Delivery Rooms I have attended I was shooting on average 1/60s @ F/2 @ ISO800 – sometimes I pushed ISO1600 and sometimes I pushed 1/30s. These delivery rooms attempted to keep a reasonable working but soft light level generally.</p>

<p>I make no assumptions of the <em>overall lighting</em> in any Operating Room, nor make any assumptions that specifically for a Caesarean Section <strong><em>the general room lighting</em></strong> will be as intense (high EV) as for any other “Operation”. I think it reasonable to assume that the lighting situations for C-Sections could vary around the world and that, for example, whilst there might be normal work lights for the surgical staff, the remaining ambient might be less than what is expected in a major Operating Theatre.</p>

<p>In the “OR” I attended, I shoot some cutaways of staff and equipment and wide overview shots, away from and out of the main operating area, and used on average F/5.6 or F/8 at 1/100 @ ISO400 – so yes that “OR” was quite bright at the edges, but I am not making assumptions that this OR will be lit the same – <strong><em>or, perhaps more importantly that the EV will stay lit the same, after the procedure is complete.</em></strong></p>

<p>The main thrust of my original comment was to allow an inexperienced person to use a piece of gear which is unfamiliar and when he was under pressure of time and emotion.</p>

<p>IMO, a wide lens and a fast lens will allow him to get a set of reasonable images which can be cropped later, if necessary.</p>

<p>I too would suggest “P” mode (NOT FULL AUTO).</p>

<p>If the Photographer has a squeamish stomach and still desires to take images then he can turn away and shoot randomly.</p>

<p>A new born might not move around all that much, but it is likely that the Photographer’s hands will be shaking – if so a faster Tv will be necessary than the 1/30s, 1/15s or 1/8s I (and others) could use.</p>

<p>“P” mode will attempt to keep the Tv to 1/60 or faster, and the difference between F/1.4 and F/2.8 might mean blur or no blur.</p>

<p>Yes, there will foreshortening if a 24mm lens on and APS-C body is used up close, there will be so with a 28 also, but not as much – I don’t think this is the worst evil to overcome, though . . . and there are some PP methods of getting around it, somewhat.</p>

<p>On the other hand, I am not sure I would give, to an inexperienced Photographer, a 55 to 250 zoom on a 400D and expect him to shoot at 6 to 8 ft.</p>

<p>The FoV at 6ft and FL = 55mm is about 2ft 4inches x 1ft 6 inches. . . that’s an awfully narrow FoV and will likely require some quick movement to get a good vantage point such that no Hospital Staff are blocking the shot.</p>

<p>However, at 6ft from the action and holding a 24 (or 28) above the head (“Doorstop Style”) the FoV would be around 5ft 6 inches x 3ft 6 inches – and assuming F/2.8 a DoF of about 2 ft. And arguabley the high vantage point would be better.</p>

<p>In summary, none of us knows what the EV will be; if the EV will be even; if the EV is bright, how long that bright EV will exist; what the spread of light will be; what Vantage Point the Photographer will have; and also what flexibility of movement he will have.<br /><br /><br />What we do know is the 400D is “OK at ISO800” and “better at ISO400”.</p>

<p>We also know that the Photographer is inexperienced and likely will be nervous and emotional. I think having a monopod attached to the camera would be dangerous.</p>

<p>IMO for this task one should choose the lens (which was the question) which will make the task the most simple in the most severe technical (and personal) circumstances we can reasonably assume: in this regard the lens I suggest is the 24L.</p>

<p>I suggest: “P” Mode; Capture RAW + JPEG (L), (most likely) ISO400 or ISO800; All AF points; Auto WB; AF set to half shutter depress; and instruct the Photographer look through the viewfinder and ghet the shot centred and also to shoot “Doorstop Style” or even looking away, if necessary . . crop and PP the images later.</p>

<p>So, IMO for an inexperienced user, with a 400D, in a tight area, unknown lattitudes of vantage point and movement, with room lights of unknown and likely varying / various EV: . . .</p>

<p>A wider, fast lens is the answer – the fastest wide lens in the Canon range is the 24L.</p>

<p>Having an F/1.4 lens <strong><em>does not mean</em></strong> that F/1.4 will be used or that images will necessarily be out of focus.</p>

<p>As much as choosing the correct lens with the most lattudes, the <strong><em>correct settings and techniques for taking the shots by an inexperienced chap are necessary also</em></strong> - I have hinted at some of those settings and techniques, but that was not the question, the question was what lens to choose.</p>

<p>Nor was the question "should I get my husband to take these shots with my camera, what's all your opinions?" . . . I find it interesting how many answered that quetsion which was not asked, though.</p>

<p>WW</p>

<p> </p>

[catherinevankempen]

<p><img src="file:///C:/DOCUME~1/CATHER~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.png" alt="" /></p>

[catherinevankempen]

<p>I just had my second little boy 6 weeks ago by c-section. I handed my husband our little Canon point and shoot and our pics came out fine ! There are simply too many things he can mess up with my DSLR. With the Point and shoot all he has to do is take the picture. It's a no-brainer. If you were to go with a DSLR I would just rent the fastest prime you can get, and I would go wide, maybe 24 or even wider.<br>

I realize this wasn't your question, but I wanted my husband to be there for me, not distracted taking pictures. I think the birth of your child is one of those things you really want to experience to the fullest. Pictures are important, but once your baby is there the memories are a lot more important. Maybe you could hire a professional to come to the hospital right after baby is born to do some nice pics once your back in your room. <br>

I'm going to try and post some of the pics my husband took with our P&S, I haven't edited them at all, besides resizing. I think he did a pretty good job, considering he was just aiming the camera over the curtain.<br>

Good luck with your baby !<br>

Cat</p><div></div>

[catherinevankempen]

<p>And this one ...</p><div></div>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>I'm sorry that you may have to have a c-section, Kelly. My wife and I have had two midwife attended homebirths that both went beautifully. I wish every mother and father could have such birth experiences.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>I was curious:</p>

<p>“Finn” was shot with a Canon PS1100 IS.</p>

<p>The far shot (the second one posted in line) FL = 6mm: F/2.8 @ 1/500s @ ISO400<br>

And the close shot FL = 6mm: F/2.8 @ 1/250s @ ISO400<br>

Both used Pattern Metering.</p>

<p>FL = 6mm on the Powershot is about FL = 24mm on a 400D so the second image gives an idea of the Foreshortening, at very close range.<br>

(from my memory of the "P" mode algorithm’s output) -If a 400D were set in “P” Mode and metered the same EV as for those two shots, the 400D at ISO400, would have selected:<br>

F3.5 @ 1/320s and<br>

F/2.8 @ 1/250s, respectively.</p>

<p>WW</p>

[doug_landrum]

<p>Been there. I am a pretty accomplished photographer. When I went into the OR for my spouse's C section - emergency - I put on an external flash and everything on green - no think. I got some good shots but mostly dodged shooting blood and jeers from the OB. The OB was a friend and I am a lawyer - not the hypothetical doctor's friend even though I do mergers and acquisitions - not med mal. Go full auto.</p>

[kivivuori]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>Keep it simple. I used low end EOS 350 D with EF 18-55 lens + Metz 32 Z-2 flash (small but versatile unit with<br>

tilting head). ISO 400, 1/30, f/8. Manual settings were the same in all pictures.</p>

<p>BR<br>

Esa Kivivuori<br>

Hyvinkää, Finland<br>

http://esakivivuoriphotography.ning.com/</p><div></div>

[allardk]

<p>A lot of responses already, didn't read them all, so sorry if this is double.<br>

I just became a father for the first time less than three weeks ago, and I took a lot of pictures. I didn't pick up the camera until the baby was actually out. Until that time I was busy supporting my wife, you may prefer that as well, think about it.<br>

I used only one lens, my Sigma 18-50 2.8 on a Canon 40D. I found it covered most of what I needed in focal length. I used bounce flash (Metz 48 AF-1) for all the pictures. It works really well because the ceiling is white and low, and gives nice soft light. It is slightly more difficult than direct flash (you have to remember to rotate the flash for portrait shots) but perhaps preferable anyway.<br>

Congratulations and good luck, Allard</p>

[alan_ginman]

<p>"I'm sorry that you may have to have a c-section, Kelly. My wife and I have had two midwife attended homebirths that both went beautifully. I wish every mother and father could have such birth experiences."<br>

 <br>

Most births that I know about are pain ridden journeys to hell and back. My wife was in a labour ward giving birth naturally (i.e. accompanied by lots of pain and screaming) when our baby's heartbeat slowed to half the normal rate. Within minutes she was in an operating theatre having an emergency C section (gas, not epidural). We now have a beautiful 4 year old daughter. If we'd been at home we would probably just have a grave to visit. A birth is a potential medical emergency. My wife and I would vote for as much medical intervention as possible.<br>

 <br>

Just another point of view.<br>

 <br>

Alan</p>

[mike_hitchen]

<p>I am speaking as a childless man, but as one with a great interest in matters medical so take this as you will.<br>

Delivery staff are very aware that the present day trend for fathers to be present at the delivery is a double-edged sword. On the one hand there is all the joy that the father can share at the birth and the support he can give to the mother. On the downside is that you never know how people are going to react, and just as often it is the mother who becomes nervous and self-conscious knowing her partner is watching. This may apply more to 'natural births' than C-sections but it shows how unpredicable the whole thing can be.<br>

I don't want to be negative, I am just saying that be careful what you are planning. I think your best bet will be a point and shoot (think G10, S90) where you can shoot RAW to adjust white balance, but at the same time get good quality pictures, and you would get good depth of field even when zoomed in. Its simplicity will also help him deter him from over-thinking. <br>

For those more experienced at shooting in OR with a SLR, it would be interesting to know how you <em>very first</em> shoot worked out. Did you didscuss with the staff before hand what you could/could not do and what to expect? Was it as successful as you hoped? I think this would be useful ground-check to see what Kelly should be aiming for.</p>

<p>What ever happens I wish you all the best for this wonderful part of your life.</p>

[William Michael]

<p ><strong ><em >"For those more experienced at shooting in OR with a SLR, it would be interesting to know how you </em></strong><strong >very first</strong><strong ><em > shoot worked out."</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >Near Perfect - I took only eight frames in total – two only, I recall, at the birth itself. It was at the birth of my first Child. No I did not discuss with any Hospital Staff beforehand. Yes I believe I did know what to expect both technically and medically. Yes, I had a Plan B and a Plan C.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >My Photographic results in a Delivery Room do not have any bearing the quality of your advice or the point you are making to Kelly – which, BTW, I believe is from the heart and intended to be most courteous </p>

<p > </p>

<p >If we are to get off the topic of the question, I agree, that Kelly (anyone wanting to Photograph a Birth) should reconnoitre all aspects and evaluate all that could happen.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >However, I did not assume that Kelly, (and her Husband), have not already made complete reconnoitre and evaluation: nor did I assume that a C Section was not of her choice or was necessarily a shame – nor did I assume that Kelly would want her Husband to use Flash - nor did I give my views on pain - pain management – hell - or birthing options . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I merely answered the question about which lens to use, on a 400D.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >In these types of topics I think it is better to wait to be asked before going too deeply into for the peripheral advice and comment – I think “Reconnoitre it properly”, is good advice.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

 

[sasvata__shash__chatterjee]

<p>Despite Esa's valiant attempt above (kudos to Esa, by the way), my personal opinion about the moments of childbirth, having witnessed my wife giving birth first via a c-section and then naturally, is that they do not make for artistic still photography. Not only is there a gross-factor for anybody beyond the immediate family, which seemingly is amplified in stills, it is extremely difficult to control and eliminate distracting objects from showing up in the frame. On the other hand, I do believe that it is a wonderful subject for videography, a video camera will do a far better job in recording the event faithfully and with far more emotional and environmental detail. The fact that the motion is continuous and not a moment frozen in time, somehow helps one to not notice the distracting elements still present in the video much like it would be on the still.</p>

<p>Once everything calms down, and a serene mood inevitably fills the room, now that makes for great opportunities for still photography that includes both mother and child.</p>

[wally_archibald]

<p>Did you check with the hospital administration, often they have a couple approved pros which are allowed in the or and rehearsed on the do's and dont's in the room. I would have been useless as the shooter (i'm the dad) and preferred my role as side kick/ hero support. Congrats and good luck</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>My best advice for a father taking photos of his chld being born is to remember what he's there for -- and it's not to take pictures. I'm a former newspaper photographer and former PPA member so naturally I took my camera into the OR when each of our children were delivered by C-section. My wife is a doctor, so I had a complete rundown on what to expect. My job before and during the actual delivery was to sit there next to her head and hold her hand while she squeezed mine so hard I thought she was going to break every bone. (Anesthesia handles the pain, but having a baby can still be very scary for the mother, especially the first time around.) Trust me, there was no opportunity to shoot the baby coming out short of abandoning my duties to comfort and reassure my wife. One the baby was out, I picked up my Nikon FM with 50mm f/2 and got picture of him (and two years later her) wrapped up in a blanket on the table after they've done the tests, then being held next to Mom. Obviouosly other people get very into taking pictures during the actual delivery, but to me, you're taking pictures and being a photographer at that point, not taking part in the actual experience. There's plenty of time for pictures later, and much more flattering pictures of both the baby and Mom, once you're out of the OR or delivery room.</p>

[donald_weston1]

<p>Been there and done that, albeit 20 yrs ago. I had great intentions and thought I was going to be able to capture it all with a FM/ 50mm 1.4 also. I was going to be allowed to shoot only from the head area, not from the other side of the action by my wife. I brought a small kit, lenses with flash etc. My wife was giving birth to twin girls, 5 weeks early. I am a dentist and have seen and done surgery so I felt at the time I was prepared for anything. It was a natural birth with epidural. No comment on the rest, whatever is right for you and your wife and the medical status. We had been prepared if things needed to change and have the section, but in this case even though they were premies, all went ok. When the time came I was more interested in staying with my wife and offereing support then shooting lots of images. Also, at that time, keeping a steady hand shooting was not part of my abilities when circumstances arrived. Doubt I would have ended up with anything worthwhile image wise. Today with IS or VR, things might be different, but in the end there are far more important things then getting a closeup of the whole thing from the business end. Most of your family and friends will not care to see the actual birth up close and personal. The images of your sweet child after they are all cleaned up is how you will want to remember them and can be done with ease. I also don't know even if the doctors allow any images, video or still, that having another light source or flash, could be a distraction to them and their staff. NOT A GOOD THING, common sense wise, I am sure you would agree, as your child's well being is the most important. I would take a dslr and a 35 -50mm prime and shoot if things go OK and you are able to actually shoot adequately. Having evidence to use at a trial, is the least important thing that should be on your mind.</p>

[martin-s]

<blockquote>

<p>"As a new dad, I would suggest letting your husband savor the moment, rather than have to bother with YOUR SLR."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I couldn't agree more. Don't burden your husband with the task of taking pictures. Some moments are best recorded in memory alone.</p>

[herma]

<p>Scanning through this thread, I just can't believe these answers. I am a passionate photographer, a nurse, a mom who had both c-sections and a regular deliveriy, but having these techno babble conversations is ridiculous. I am with Catherine. A simple P&S should suffice.</p>

<p>This was a similar hilarous thread.<br /><a href="../casual-conversations-forum/00UTLn">http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00UTLn</a></p>

[JDMvW]

<p>BTW, as already vividly illustrated, there are many parts of this experience that do NOT really NEED to be documented and particularly not shared. After the intensive biology of it all from lamaze classes to pheromone overload, one tends to lose perspective on what is really appropriate for a general audience. As I was reminded, when showing an old friend pictures of the birth of my daughter. "Um, that's kind of intimate, isn't it?"</p>

<p>If you reflect on it, this is a life-changing rite of passage, not a photo-op.</p>

[William Michael]

<p>Are you still reading, Kelly ? ? ?<br>

:)<br>

WW</p>