F4 AF Speed - Good Enough for Birds?

[dave_smith]

I am about to add an AF body to my Nikon system. I prefer the

features of the "F" series camers, so only the F4 and F5 are under

consideration.

 

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I strongly prefer the F4, but I have read in various reports that the

AF system of the F5 is much better. The most demanding AF subjects I

expect to encounter will be largish birds, either overhead or moving

parallel to film plane. Assuming use with modern AF-I or AF-S

lenses, is the F4 AF system fast enough for this kind of subject?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

[m._huber]

I'm not familir with the F5, but personally, I usually swith to manual focus for a subject such as a flying bird. However, I'm not up to date on all the new wonders of AF.

[bruce]

Dave,

The F4 uses old AF technology. I believe it was introduced in the late

1980's. AF has come a long way since them. When I switched from an MF

Contax system into Nikon (1.5 years ago), I debated purchasing an

F4... I ended up with 2 n90s bodies. Now I almost never use AF, but if

I did, I would be more confident in the AF speed of my Nikon bodies

(built around 1996) than an older F4. If money is no object buy an

F5... if you are starting fresh, buy Canon... I wish I did because you

get more versatile AF for the $$$$.

regards

bruce

[robert_smith]

Dave, I'm currently using both the F4 and F5 and while I agree the F4's technology is old it may be suitable for the examples you gave...I had trouble with it while trying to track wood ducks as they were swimming, but the light and contrast were low...not good for any AF... in situations with good light it was OK...the advantage of the F5 is the extra sensors and being able to compose and/or lock on to the subject off center...the key to all of this AF stuff is to prefocus at a distance close to where you expect your subject to be and then let the camera do the final step...this avoids having the lens hunting back and forth and missing the shot...actually I think the F4 was under rated and over shadowed by all the advances in the EOS system...but I still enjoy using the 4...I bought the F5 because of the advanced AF features and have not been disapointed...I use it for wildlife and the F4 primarily for macro...if you want an interesting book that gives an honest comparison of the EOS and F5 systems check out Arthur Morris's new book The Art of Bird Photography...it cuts through all the Ford vs Chevy biasis...

 

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if you have any other specific questions or comments on these two bodies I'd be glad to share my experiences...send me an email...

[drc]

The F4 will work well for the parameters you have mentioned, however the F5 does AF the best(used/owned EOS). A nice feature of the F4 is the extra metering chip that will enable you to matrix meter with AIS and AF lenses.

[joe_boyd]

If you're going to spend a few thousand more for an AF-I/AF-S lens,

over an older AF design, spend the extra $500 for a body that can take

advantage of the focus speed of the lens. The F5 is able to take

advantage of the AF speed of the lenses. There are two very important

features of the multiple AF sensors on the F5. The extra sensors mean

the difference between dead-center compostions and birds flying into

the frame, and more importantly, being able to track the subject over

a larger portion of the frame because the selected sensor moves with

the subject in dynamic focus mode.

 

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It's really a small price to pay to get the most out of your system.

[jim_bridges]

The F5 is the latest and finest AF camera that Nikon makes. The F4

has AF technology that is over ten years old. Go with the F5 if you

are going to do a lot of fast action AF shooting, and it�s going to

work great with the new AF-S lenses.

 

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I use a F4s, but rarely use it in the AF modes. The times I have used

the AF systems it has worked fine for me, but I�m not trying to shoot

birds on the fly. The wildlife, and birds that I shoot in the AF mode

are usually standing, walking, setting, or feeding, so it�s not much

of a test as to how fast the AF will track, and all that stuff. I

guess I�ve become fairly proficient at manual focusing, with

practice, so the latest and greatest AF systems aren�t really all

that important for me. I do like the electronic rangefinder in the

F4, and use it often. Good luck.

[howard_creech1]

Dave, I don't know how much this will help, but I love my F4s, I plan

to buy an F5 in the near future, but I wouldn't get rid of the F4s to

do so. The major difference between the two is that the F4s was

designed to unite the massive Nikon MF system with the then emeging

AF Nikon system...the F4s will allow you to use virtually every lens

Nikon has ever made (in the most advanced mode available at that time)

and this will continue far into the future. So here is the easy way

to answer your question....if you plan to use all sorts of different

lenses (MF&AF) with your new camera, if you want a camera that will

still be making exposures in twenty years, if you want a camera that

can go anywhere under any conditions, if you want to save about a

thousand dollars (which you could spend on some very interesting

glass) then buy the F4s, which you can get used now for about $900.-

$1000.....if on the other hand you want use AF-S lenses..if you want/

need the fastest auto focus...if you need 8FPS with AF, etc. then

cough up the two grand for the F5. I doubt you would be unhappy with

either camera.

[larry_korhank]

My lowly Nikon N70 does a good job of tracking flying birds, but I

hear that the canon lenses with internal motors are the best.

[ShunCheung]

As it has been pointed out a few times, the AF technology on the F4 is

over 10 years old. As some people say, the first real AF body from

Nikon was the N90/F90. If one is spending money on the expensive

AF-I/AF-S lenses to gain AF speed, the F5 should be the clear choice,

not to mention that its 5 AF sensors is a great help.

 

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The main advantage of the F4 is that it maintains matrix metering with

the older lenses without electronic contacts, and some people perfer

the old-fashion dials and mechanical switches. I have used both the F4

and F5 quite a bit. I am so used to the the thumb wheels and LCD

readouts now that I don't like the F4 as much any more.

[danny_weber]

I used an F4 for eight years. It's a great camera, but the AF in the

N90s and the F5 are substantially improved. If AF performance is

important to you, you'll be much happier using either of these

cameras.

 

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Once I started using an F5, I couldn't go back to the F4 and soon sold

it. In fact, I find it difficult to use a different camera now,

although I was always able to go back and forth between an F4 and

N90s, so I just use F5's. It's kind of addictive.

[rene_de_heer]

I currently use 2 Nikon F5s and a NikonF4S. The Nikon F4S is a

different generation AF camera and compared with the EOS1N and F5

slow. I use the F5 with a 4.0/500 AFI Nikon lens and the AF speed and

accuracy are amazing. I did try the lens on the F4S, its slow but ok.

I will not get rid of the F4S as i mainly use it for landscape and

macro photography, where as the F5s are used for

birdphotography...thats where speed counts...

I swapped from Canon to Nikon because i prefered the built quality of

the Nikon equipment. You can have endless discussions about whether

nikon is better then canon or vice versa...i think the differences

are purely academical...at the end of the day we still have to take

the picture ...a Nikon or Canon cant do that for you!

Rene de Heer

[steve_fletcher]

I shoot with and love my F4s, and Birds are perhaps my favorite subject. But, since budget doesn't seem to be an issue for you, I don't know why you wouldn't buy the latest and greatest F5. You didn't say why you strongly favor the F4 over the F5. I have experimented with the AF on an F5 and was not impressed. Last time I checked, the price of the F5 was just about twice that of the F4s, something on the order of $3000 US. Has it come down from that stratospheric level yet? I advise people on a budget to skip the F5, but if money weren't a concern, I might look into one myself. Then again, I much pefer the ergonomics of the F4s, so since I am happy with the results I get, I'd probably skip the F5 even if I could afford one.

[michael_j._kravit]

Dave,

 

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I own a Nikon F5, a N90s, and a F2. I use my buddies F4 from time to

time. I also have a AF-S 300. With the F5 the AF speed is amazing.

The lens focuses from infinity to as close as it will go in roughly

1/4 second. Fast? yes blazing fast. Before I bought the F5 I

seriously considered the Canon. I make side by side comparisons,

rented a Canon equipment, borrowed some and realized that nothing is

quite as fast and accurate in AF as the F5. Perhaps in a year that

will change, but for my money (and this stuff is literally a fortune)

the F5 has it all. My wife uses the N90s, she likes the size and

weight, loves the AF and would not trade it for the world.

 

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If you are going to buy the AF-S lenses and use them in AF mode, then

the F5 is the only way to go.

 

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I shot my daughters track meet last week. I was amazed at how the F5

in Continuous servo/dynamic focus mode tracked the participants never

once loosing focus or having to search to re-aquire focus. I don't

shoot many sports events and really had no idea how good the F5

autofocus really is.

 

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Good Luck

Mike

[john_fisher]

IMO the F5's AF is very much superior to that of the F4. However the

F4 should be able to handle what you are doing now adequately. I'm

not sure what features you prefer in the F4, but have found that

handling the F5 is very intuitive. I say this as one who really

never got used to the 8008 or N90 after using an FTN for more years

than I like to think about.

If you are contemplating buying one of the AF-I or S lenses why not

spend a little more and get something which will take full avantage

of the capabilities of the system.

One other thought - 'largish birds' is what you are shooting today

but what about tomorrow?

You might also want to look at Moose Peterson's site at

www.moose395.net.