Reverse 105mm for greater 1:1 macro?

[paul_ong1]

<p>I want to do some macro photography at greater than 1:1 with the Nikon Micro 105mm AIS lens. For most lenses, it is recommended to reverse them. Is that necessary or desirable for the 105mm? Thanks.</p>

[jmt]

<p>My only experience with reversing lenses is that the wider the lens, the bigger the reproduction ratio. Try reversing a 24 or 35mm and you will easily break the 1:1 barrier. Other than that, I never tried reversing a 105mm, so I cannot answer your question directly.</p>

[mike_earussi1]

<p>Depends on how high you're planning on going. But it's unlikely you'll see any improvement unless you go above 4x. BTW, how do you plan on achieving this magnification, bellows or extension tube?</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>Reversing lenses could be interesting for greater magnification, but this general rule use to work up to 35mm... from 50mm on this difference is not as noticeable (well, the 50/1.8 works better reversed for higher than 1:1), and with longer lenses (like the 105) reversing the lens will result in lower magnification, hence more bellows needed to achieve the same results (more bellows=more problems).<br /> I try to remember that if you`re looking for higher than 1:1 with this lens, your only <em>reasonable</em> option is to use it in normal position.</p>

[sebastianmoran]

<p>I would use a shorter lens, 50mm f/1.8, 55 f/3.5, 35mm or an enlarging lens reversed. Getting 1:1 and more with a reversed 105mm will have the lens hanging way out there.</p>

[Kent Shafer]

<p>If your 105mm AIS is the f/4 version, Bjorn Rorslett describes spectacular results in the 1–2X range from mounting a short-mount 105mm bellows Nikkor on the front of it. Here's the link: <a href="http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html">http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_spec.html</a>.</p>

<p>Haven't tried this myself.</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>John, thanks. Will keep your advice in mind when using shorter lenses.</p>

<p>Mike, I have a bellows and extension tubes, and so far, I have been about to used the combination by using the tubes both between the camera body and bellows, and between the bellows and lens to minimize the stress. Not sure if I will go to 4x.</p>

<p>Jose, OK, will keep that in mind. I am mainly exploring at this time going greater than 1:1. Most of my previous macros have been a less than 1:1.</p>

<p>Richard, thanks. I have a couple of enlarger lenses, but I have not figured how to mount it on the bellows. I have mounted them on a large-format camera, but did not reverse. The problem with reversing is that the aperture control is behind the lens board. Any suggestions on mounting to a 35mm bellows?</p>

<p>Kent, unfortunately not the f/4 AIS. It is the f/2.8 micro AIS, which Bjorn Rorslett gives a high 4.5 to 5 rating, although it has to be stopped down a couple of stops when using extension tube or bellows. </p>

<p>Bottom line based on people's useful comments, will try initially without reversing. I will place an order for a reverse lens adapter for later.</p>

[oskar_ojala]

<p>I recommend a shorter lens; the extension needed for a 105 mm lens to go beyond 1:1 is unpractical. In general, a good bellows is recommended for this.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p><em>"... unfortunately not the f/4 AIS. It is the f/2.8 micro AIS... "</em><br /> That`s a very good lens too. That f4 version on a PB-6 doesn`t even reach 2:1 reversed, it goes slightly beyond 2:1 (2.6:1?) in normal position. And if I recall it right, the f2.8 version will give you a bit higher magnification than the f4 for the same bellows lenght. It could be even more interesting. I can check it tomorrow.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p><em>"... The problem with reversing is that the aperture control is behind the lens board... "</em><br>

I like to use Cokin adapters for their filter system holders. Use a lens board for that task attached to the Cokin adapter in the desired lens thread size. The lens to adapter attachment can be made with three bolts+nuts (this let you to switch between adapters in different sizes). Just screw your lens to the adapter.</p>

[alex_lofquist]

<p>There is no optical advantage in lens reversal until you have reproduction ratios significantly greater than 1:1. However, at better than 2:1 with extension tubes or bellows, it's probably a good idea. If you just wish to go a little bit better than 1X, using a Nikkor 3T close-up "diopter" will give you about 1.2X magnification. Using the Nikkor 4T will gain you about 1.45X magnification. Using both of these together will give you 1.65X. If you add a 25mm extension tube to the above it will get you 2X. No lens reversal involved!</p>

[liljuddakalilknyttphotogra]

<p>I would highly recommend starting by trying to reverse a 50mm lens. That alone will show you how hard it is. You'll be working at max 2 inches from your subject. Then go to a 35mm & at 28mm reversed you're at max 1 inch from your subject.<br>

If I may suggest - buy a 105 & tubes. A much easier way to go.</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Oskar (and others), I think I will try a shorter focal length in my next iteration. I had a wonderful 55mm micro but gave it as a present to my nephew. Sorry I did that, but he loves the lens.</p>

<p>Jose, thanks for the insight into using the PB-6 with the 105mm lenses. I am using a Pentax bellows with extension tubes. Also thanks for the advice on the Cokin adapter. I just got back from my brother's place to look at his Cokin system. I guess I now have another project for the future.</p>

<p>Alex, I have not tried the "diopter" approach because I have read that it has an adverse impact on IQ. I am happy for now to work in the range between 1:1 and 3:1. My bellows with extension tubes seems to be about to achieve that.</p>

<p>Les, thanks for the great link. A very useful thread.</p>

<p>Lil, yes agree that one of the reasons to use the 105mm is more distance from the subject. Have the 105mm micro AIS f/2.8, a Pentax bellows (with adapters) and Kenko extension tubes. Seems to work. Just want to know if I should buy a reverse lens adapter for the 105mm to improve IQ.</p>

 

[jose_angel]

<p><em>"... the Nikon Micro 105mm f2.8 AIS and found that it does not benefit from being reversed and in fact cannot be focused... "</em><br /> It should focus. The issue is that the reach at full PB-6 extension is almost the same than the lens alone in normal position... Certainly it does not benefit.<br /> BTW, while the 105/4 goes slightly beyond 2:1, the f2.8 version goes slightly beyond 3:1 (@ full extension on the PB-6).</p>

[Albins images]

<p>Not answering your question directly, I echo above posts that recommend using reversed shorter lenses for >1:1 magnifications. Either directly on the camera, or on a longer lense (like: reversed 50mm on a 200mm). I own the 105/2.8 AIS myself, but use above combinations for really close-up work. <br />With 20/3.5, for example:<br>

<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3022/2577990861_8ce5932db6_m.jpg" alt="" width="240" height="158" /></p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Jose, thanks. Very useful information. When just using the 105mm, I will use in normal position.<br>

Albin, you and others have convinced me to experiment with a shorter lens in front of the 105mm when I have time and the right adapters. I have a 24mm. How do you attach the two lenses? Thanks.</p>

[alex_lofquist]

<p>Reversing another short lens on top of a long lens can be an effective way to higher magnifications. Before I had purchased my macros I tried several combinations of stacked lenses. Some worked well and others did not. (In general, zooms were a bit "dicey".) You will also need an appropriate reversing ring to accommodate the proper lens diameters. With Nikon cameras you will need to use "stop-down" metering. I found it best to open up fully my rear (long) lens and control the exposure (and depth-of-field) with the front (short) lens. Set both lenses to infinity and focus by moving in and out the entire camera/lens system. (AF is useless in this config.)</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Alex, thanks for the response. Will stay away from zoom lenses. Right now, the two I have in mind are the Nikon 105mm micro and the 24mm, both AIS. Will keep the 105mm wide open and adjust the aperture on the 24mm. Both have a 52mm filter ring, so I am going to buy a 52mm-52mm macro coupler ring.</p>

[oskar_ojala]

<p>In the different macro approaches (adding extension, adding a diopter, stacking lenses, adding a teleconverter...) some approaches work and some don't, depending on the lenses in question. Last winter I did some snowflake photography around 4x magnification, this was with a reversed 45 mm lens on a bellows. Working distance was sufficient. It helps a lot if the lens used is fast; focusing is very dim at high magnifications and diffraction eats away fine detail.<br>

When getting adapters for coupling two lenses or reversing a lens, make sure you get good quality; lenses are a lot heavier than filters.<br>

Stacking a 24 mm lens on a 105 mm lens will give you 4x magnification with very little working distance. For all practical purposes, you will soon want a macro focusing rail. Personally I didn't find this combination so useful, but YMMV. Looking up a 55 mm macro lens would be a good idea, these seem to work well both the right way and reversed.</p>

[dave wyman]

<p>Look for a copy of Lester Lefkowitz's book, The Manual of Close-up Photography. It will answer all your questions and more. </p>

[Albins images]

<p>...And when we start recommending books ;-) John Shaw's Close-Ups in Nature is also 'still' essential reading.</p>

[paul_ong1]

<p>Oskar, Thanks. Looks like I will have to do some experimenting to figure out the best combination and approach.</p>

<p>Dave and Albin, thanks for the book recommendations. Will have to make my way to the library.</p>