Canon 40D + FD 400mm F4.5 SSC, my experience with the Canon "maglite"

[ray_storege]

<p>Hi all,<br>

I'm extremely happy with this old lens and I hope it shows in these pictures :-)<br>

<img src="http://sportruiter.nl/pictures/bumble40D_FD400_4_5.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" /></p>

<p><img src="http://sportruiter.nl/pictures/common_tern40D_FD400_4_5.jpg" alt="" width="800" height="600" /> </p>

[awahlster]

<p>What are you using as an adapter Ray?</p>

[ray_storege]

<p>The adapter is homemade from two mounts, the "negative" mount from a broken FD 2x converter glued, back to back, together with a "positive" mount from an broken Tamron EF lens. It makes for an adapter that enables the camera/lens combination to focus properly for about 100 meters give or take. I also have an ebay (glassless) adapter but it wouldnt let me focus past about 15 meters or so.</p>

[ed_k__north_carolina_]

<p>Can you post some photos of the adapter?</p>

[ray_storege]

<p>I will tomorrow as for now I'm not going into the trouble of doing so just before my bedtime, apologies for that.<br>

Best regards and goodnight,<br>

Ray</p>

[awahlster]

<p>I been wondering about a skinny adapter It would be easy to drill and tap one side with say 6) 2-56 flat head screws and end up with an adapter maybe 3-4 mill thick<br>

I often use my 500mm f4.5L with a FD-15 tube to help increase the magnification.<br>

And both the 400 and the 500 focus past infinity so that helps make up for it.</p>

<p>Which brings up another thing no one seams to ever talk about instead of tearing up the back end of the lens or putting up with a crappy adapter. An adapter like this combined with a modification to allow the lens to focus past infinity.<br>

I would assume that moving the focusing helix on most telephoto's a couple more degrees rotation is a possible modification.</p>

<p> </p>

[py-photography]

<p>Some great shots, I can see why you love the lens.<br>

Very interested in the adaptor you managed to manufactured.</p>

[ed_k__north_carolina_]

<p>Thanks Ray!</p>

[awahlster]

<p>Come to think of it why couldn't a FD mount from a disassembled M5 extension tube be screwed directly to the mounting ring of an EF body. Looking at the photo's I can see nothing to prevent this from working unless the diamters are so great the FD mount doesn't over lap the EF mount enough to have purchase for the screws.<br>

Granted it would not make it easy to swap from an FD lens back to a EF mount lens. But by having such a thin adapter with a long telephoto the 5-7mm extension might be all but over come by the past infinity focus. Or at least enough that for most wildlife stuff the lens would still reach focus.<br>

A guy could by a 1.6 crop body and dedicate it to the lens. hmmmm things to think about. Might even be able to sink it into the body by removing the EF mount.</p>

 

In fact if you check out what these Minolta guys are doing I see no reason why this couldn't be an option for long lenses like the 400 and 500mms

 

http://digitalrokkor.altervista.org/techdetails.html

[alan_swartz]

<p>Yes, it looks possible. The M5 piece is slightly smaller in diameter than the mount ring OD on my EOS3, but there's a good bit of overlap. A surplus FD body mount could also be screwed to the EOS mount, though it has to be rotated slightly to use the original FD screw holes. The top two interfere with the EOS screws.</p>

<p>At a glance, it looks like either the M5 ring or the body mount will easily recess into the EOS body if the EF mount is removed. A thin adapter ring might need to be machined to regulate the depth and deal with the two sets of screws. When the FD lens gets too close, though, its stop-down lever interferes in the EOS mirror box.</p>

[awahlster]

<p>Alan are you saying the FD stop down lever would have to be modified to allow the mount swap to take place?<br>

I have a mount ring in my stuff that the only marking on it is the letters CA and japan. SO I'm not sure what accessory it came off of. It's the same outer diameter as the M5 body side mount.<br>

Ok with some careful measuring it looks as if the stopdown lever on my 400mm f4.5 nFD can only be shortened buy maybe 1mm and still function as it should on a FD body.<br>

Another thing that the adapterless idea will have to figure out is how to stop the lens down. <br>

I also note that the Manual diaphram adapter won't fit my 400mm f4.5 nFD the lever does not travel far enough for the little nub to fit down into the slot the lever travels through the rear baffle in. <br>

it is possible that a way to make the aperture stop down lever removable is possible. Not sure how to do that but I'm thinking on it.<br>

Otherwise the limiting factor if the lens is to be unaltered is the depth/lenght of the stop down lever</p>

<p>Well if it was easy !</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Lovely tern and bumble bee Ray! Having used an nFD 400 f4.5 quite a bit on my Sony a700 with a glassless modification of a Bower FD-alpha adapter, I can only say amen to the happiness this lens brings. Unfortunately mine is in need of a good CLA as it tends to randomly disengage the stop-down mechanism of late and jump to f22 when it isn't supposed to. I've also given some thought to building an extremely short glassless adapter using an M5 ring, a spare body mount or the corresponding end unscrewed from an old off-brand cheap TC. In the case of adapting to alpha mount I believe the register distance is about the same as EF, and the usual solution for patching things together would be via an M42-to-alpha adapter. Haven't tried to actually weld anything together yet though. Anyway, here's one of the first shots I took when I just started using my a700 adapted to 400 f4.5, a little over a year ago.</p>

<div></div>

[ray_storege]

<p>Thats a very nice picture indeed Paul, definately a good representation of the quality these old lenses have to offer still, very crisp combined with a beautifull contrast. The only quality degrading element is the lens weak-spot in the form of chromatic abberation but its nothing that cant be dealt with in post processing.</p>

<p>Surprisingly my adapter looks a lot like the adapter behind the link Mark has provided (i.e. <a href="http://digitalrokkor.altervista.org/techdetails.html">http://digitalrokkor.altervista.org/techdetails.html</a> ). Its basicly the same idea, without glass, except mine is just made up from to old mounts (female FD/male EF) without any consideration for any aperture-lever. I just use it wide open and it does so very much to my liking. I also thought about a mechanical connection between both mounts but because of the thin materials decided to glue them together instead. For the glueing I used a german brand called "UHU" and the type of glue is "endfest 300" ( <a href="http://www.stirlingshop.de/epages/61267352.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61267352/Products/0001">http://www.stirlingshop.de/epages/61267352.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61267352/Products/0001</a> ), a two component glue (adhesive) which can be baked at a 180 degrees celcius (in any normal baking oven) to make connections that can withstand 300KG of force per square centimeter. So basicly with this glue one just needs to find about a few millimeters of surface for both mounts to connect tightly enough since the lens + camera are only about a few KG combined. </p>

<p>But as much as I like shooting away with the 40D I also want to try to take this lens one step further (in millimeters) so I also bought a Panasonic G1 recently. I'm still waiting for the FD-to-M4/3 adapter to arrive but I'm guessing these little camera's suit the long FD lenses a lot better while also extending its reach with 0.4x compared to APS-C cams. </p>

<p>Still cant post the adapter picture as I'm at work now but will do so later.</p>

<p>Regards</p>

[ray_storege]

<p>Well, here it is, nothing fancy but quite slim with only 5mm (thickness) of metal between camera and lens once all is mounted.<br>

<img src="http://sportruiter.nl/pictures/fd_to_eos_diy_adapter.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="1026" /></p>

<p>Regards, Ray</p>

[awahlster]

<p>Thanks for the photo's Ray. The spare FD ring I have appears to be very similar to yours in dimension only it's black it already has 3) counter sunk holes and Since I already have the tooling required to add holes and threads etc. I think I would rather try 6 or more small screws (afterall the actual mount on these cameras are all held on with 3-4 screws the same size as I would be able to use.<br>

I could even go nuts and buy Titaninum screws. I would how ever still put a glue in between the two pieces if I went with a two piece unit. I also figured out how to make my own version of the manual diaphram adapter from Phenolic that would fit the 400mm f4.5 nFD I like the way it would help protect the EF mount electrical contacts.<br>

I guess until I have a body in hand it's all guess work. I don't want to do anything that would jeperdize any of my FD lenses ability to be used on my FD bodies.<br>

I'm also starting to wonder why I have never seen an adapter that is simply a FD mount with the flange cut to lock into the EF mount. I'm guessing there must be a diameter problem.<br>

Wish I could find a mechaincal drawing of an EF mount both sides. I can do the FD side.</p>

[alan_swartz]

<p>Mark, my comment about stop-down lever length is based upon hand-holding an FD lens inside the EF body mount on my EOS 3. I had wondered about simply removing the EF mount and replacing it with a custom made FD mount in order to reduce the flange distance problem.</p>

<p>I just rechecked it. Using a 50/1.4 oriented in the normal way, the stop-down lever just touches the plastic immediately above the EF electrical pins. There is enough room inside the EF mount to shift the lens up slightly to clear. Extending the lens a couple of millimeters, maybe only 1mm, also clears the body. I don't know what's behind that plastic piece in the body, but it might be modified. Nor can I speak about mirror clearance, though I suspect it's OK without going any deeper. I also can't speak for any other EOS body, especially the digitals, which are the ones we'd be interested in.</p>

<p>This would have potential for the telephotos, but the 50mm still gets nowhere near infinty focus when resting on the EF body mount.</p>

<p><em>I'm also starting to wonder why I have never seen an adapter that is simply a FD mount with the flange cut to lock into the EF mount. I'm guessing there must be a diameter problem.</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

The EF mount opening is big enough that I think this would work, again speaking off-the-cuff. I suppose it hasn't been done simply because of the assumption that no one wants to merely get closer to infinity focus without achieving it.</p>

<p>I'll try to get out the calipers tomorrow and see what's up.</p>

<p> </p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>It wouldn't be a very elegant solution, but one way to avoid damage from the stop-down lever touching contacts or other bits inside the camera body could be to adapt the dissected FD mount onto the EF mount with a sideways turn, ie glue/weld/screw the FD side on the EF fitting with the FD's split top flange turned clockwise or counterclockwise by an appropriate number of degrees?</p>

[awahlster]

<p>I looked at that option Paul and it appears that the mirror box in most of the models I have been able to look at are pretty flush with the electrical contacts around the outer edge. Though maybe a baffle may be able to be removed.</p>

[ray_storege]

<p>I also gave it some thought to modify the/a mount (be it DSLR or FD lens) but I'd rather keep all this equipment the way it is and rather go with some addons instead. I dont mind improvising an adapter or even having to buy an extra camera like the G1, as long as I dont have to tear apart any equipment.</p>

[feanolas1]

<p>Here is a pictures of a no-flange adapter I made. As remarked by Alan, the stop down lever is touching the bottom of the reflex box. It is only a mater of half a millimeter, but mounting a lens with this knd of adapter will slightly indent the plastic: I know from experience! However, it is not damageable to the body.<br>

I solved the issue by filing this half millimeter from the lever; it does not prevent it use in FD mode, as there is ample provision for that on the FD side (easy to check with a F1 with finder and screen removed). I did that with my 500mm, as it is the most interresting FD lens to use in that setting.<br>

Moving the lens sideway by 90° to avoid the problem is possible, one would have to check whether tis does not prevent the mirror from opening.<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/10996073-lg.jpg" alt="" width="640" height="476" /><br>

Another drawback of the adapter is that there is no locking hole on the EF side. The EF locking pin is just on the edge of the FD lens; a very small indentation in the edge of the FD mount is OK to allow locking.<br>

Back to the 4.5/500mm lens: it actually focusses to infinity without any problem! since in normal usage, it focusses "farther" than infinity, one can take advantage of that to compensate for the slight addition of flange distance.<br>

Doesn't work for the 2.8/300, focus is limited to about 50m, which is OK for some (most?) work. The 200mm focuses to 18m, 135mm to 9m only and 85mm to 2m.</p>

 

[ross_becker]

<p>There are a number of folks that have the expertise to remove the FD mount & fit an EF mount on FD lenses.<br>

I have 3 lenses that I have changed the mounts to EF complete with chips. <br>

There's a newFD85mm f1.2L, a newFD50mm f1.2L & an FL-F300mm f5.6 Fluorite.<br>

The process is very exacting & rather complex, certainly not to be taken lightly.<br>

There are pictures here:<br>

50L<br>

<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vY3kwB7QIcs/TBSFPFLrPhI/AAAAAAAAoeA/EhRkN7de4zA/s800/IMG_0601.JPG" alt="" width="800" height="686" /> <br>

85L<br>

<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vY3kwB7QIcs/TCAp7OFjl1I/AAAAAAAAouo/lalWr4rshGU/s640/IMG_0634.JPG" alt="" width="640" height="634" /><br>

FL-F300<br>

<img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_vY3kwB7QIcs/TCApy2hf7wI/AAAAAAAAoug/93vDgip9Nz4/s720/IMG_0639.JPG" alt="" width="720" height="684" /><br>

All lenses work as original & give fabulous image quality (as you'd expect) & focus to infinity.<br>

There are several more photos here:<br>

50L <a href="http://bit.ly/abKh5N">http://bit.ly/abKh5N</a><br>

85L <a href="http://bit.ly/c0vE6W">http://bit.ly/c0vE6W</a><br>

FL-F300 <a href="http://bit.ly/cj4hLW">http://bit.ly/cj4hLW</a><br>

cheers<br>

Ross Becker<br>

New Zealand</p>