What d300s kit should I buy?

[left_ayyones]

<p>Eric - thanks for all the lens suggestions, very informative stuff.</p>

<p>Andy - not sure what Minolta he has - only know that it's silver and black and he got it as a wedding present haha</p>

<p>Shun, Devon, Jean-Yves - I'm pretty sure he'll take to photography again like a fish to water. The main reason that I don't want to just give him cash or a gift card is that I'd rather not have him know how much I'm spending on all this. I mean, he'll have some idea, and I guess he could look it up later, but trust me, the shopping trip would be kind of awkward. My dad's a great guy, but being that he's a teacher in a small town, he never made a ton of money. He's also very frugal in general. I guess I'm lucky (although sometimes I don't feel that way b/c of the commitments required) that I've got a job that pays pretty well. When I first got a real job out of college, he asked how much they were paying me, and when I told him, he said, "that's more than I make <em>now </em>after 30 years of teaching". </p>

<p>So anyway, I've got to be kind of sensitive to that sort of thing. I want to get him something nice, but I don't want to just bust in the door and wave a big wad of cash in his face, as if to say, "Here! Have some money! I couldn't really be bothered to spend some time picking out a thoughtful gift 'cause I'm to busy for my old dad, so have fun shopping." This is also a guy who takes a year or two waiting for the power tool he wants to come on sale for $10 cheaper than the normal price. Anyway, I'd rather do the due diligence myself and pick out a stellar set of gear for him so he can just get started. </p>

<p>Regarding the larger aperture lenses, how does this kit sound:<br>

* D300s body<br />* Sigma 10mm - 20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 18mm - 50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM II Autofocus</p>

<p>with the same accessories and a little lower-spec computer (21" iMac instead of 27") this all comes out to about $6,000. Would it be worth it to get the faster glass, or should I stick to the original kit with the Nikon lenses?</p>

<p>P.S. The Tokina lenses are getting hard to find - the 50-135 seems pretty much discontinued, although you can get it here and there. After reading a few threads on the lenses and the differences between AF and AF-S, I picked the Sigma's because they fit together nicely as a package and they've all got the in-lens autofocus motors.</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<p>Regarding the larger aperture lenses, how does this kit sound:<br />* D300s body<br />* Sigma 10mm - 20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 18mm - 50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM II Autofocus</p>

<p>I dunno, I'd rather have a D90 and Nikkors.</p>

[guttaperk]

<p>Having read everything you've written, it sounds like primes might be a good way to go. Just an alternative thought!</p>

<p>(1) You'd save weight. The D300s is already heavier than his old gear, so saving weight is good. Besides, weight-saving is important for folk who go on hikes.<br>

(2) Simplicity. The D300s will already have plenty of new arenas for him to explore.<br>

(3) Price.<br>

(4) Quality. Buying primes allows you to get faster glass than is currently possible with zooms.</p>

<p>You can get a 35 f/1.8, a 50 f/1.8, and an 85 f/1.8 for just a few hundred dollars, and his preferences in using this triad would inform any follow-up purposes later, whether wide-angle zoom, normal zoom, short-telephoto, or longer-telephoto. Candidates would include 10-20, 18-55/2.8, 50-150/2.8, 70-200/2.8, 70-300, 100-300/4. Choices abound, so I'm not sure buying (relatively) blind is a good idea. I get your point about not giving him money or taking him shopping, and I guess I think that testing the waters with primes might be a decent alternative.</p>

[guttaperk]

<p>That should be follow-up *purchases*. :-)</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>* D300s body<br />* Sigma 10mm - 20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 18mm - 50mm f/2.8 EX DC Macro HSM Autofocus<br />* Sigma 50-150mm f/2.8 EX DC HSM II Autofocus</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Replace the 10-20 with the Tokina 11-16/2.8 and the 18-50 with the Sigma 17-70/2.8-4; the 50-150 is an excellent choice.<br>

Your dad is very lucky and I am sure will be very pleased. </p>

[alvinyeo]

<p>Glad to hear you're actually buying a retirement gift for your dad. It's blessed to give than to receive.<br>

If you asked me, I would get the D300s, thinking it would last longer due to its quality build, weather sealed a plus. It has a bigger viewfinder as well. 2 memory slots are handy feature which you can't get in current advanced dSLR bodies, except D3 with 2x CF slots. Especially useful for travelling and backup between card. You may get 1 CF card and 1 SD card if you're getting the D300s eventually.<br>

You have a decent budget to play around. Variable aperture lenses are cheaper than fixed. You may keep to the first list you had in the beginning. There's nothing wrong with the mid-ends. 16-85, 70-300 are decent lenses (i've not owned them but from the reviews I read) if you want to shoot most of the time in the day. Add one or two prime glasses are great for portraits. 70-200 is good provided your dad is more experienced to handle a dSLR well.<br>

Photography is all about lighting. A flashgun(SB-600) is necessary especially shooting indoors and at times even doing creative shots, he'll need a flash very much.<br>

Bags go with Lowepro or Thinktank. Lowepro are more value for money. You may stick with Nikon bags, but it is not discreet while lugging the Nikon brand, everyone will know it's a dSLR kit bag and higher risk of getting theft. I mean the worse case scenario.<br>

Go with one brand, when needed after sales support, you just need to go to one service stop.<br>

That's my 2cents.</p>

[left_ayyones]

<p>Adrian - thanks for the ideas. I've done quite a bit more research on lenses. It looks like the Sigmas, while nice, don't have quite the image quality of the Nikkors, and there have been some problems with poor calibration from the factory as well (so-called 'front-focusing').</p>

<p>Anyway, I decided to incorporate several of the ideas posted here and drop the Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6G FX VR from the list. Good telephoto zooms are just too expensive (& heavy!). Maybe for a Christmas gift later or something ;-) I also bumped up the budget to $7,000 so that I could get a better range of lenses and still get a decent computer package.</p>

<p>Here's the current list. I think this is what I'm going to order next week - my brain is getting sore from thinking about this stuff!</p>

<p>* Nikon D300s body<br />* Nikon AF-S 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6 DX VR (handy for walking around) (<a href="http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/377-nikkor_1685_3556vr?start=2">PZ Review</a>)<br />* Nikon AF-S 35mm f/1.8 DX (standard prime) (<a href="http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/422-nikkor_35_18g?start=2">PZ review</a>)<br />* Nikon AF-S 50mm f/1.4 (mild telephoto prime) (<a href="http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/413-nikkor_50_14g?start=2">PZ review</a>)<br />* Nikon AF-S 105mm f/2.8 Micro VR (medium telephoto prime & good for macro as well) (<a href="http://www.photozone.de/nikon--nikkor-aps-c-lens-tests/224-micro-nikkor-af-s-105mm-f28g-if-ed-vr-review--test-report?start=2">PZ review</a>)<br>

<br /> * Nikon SB-600 flash<br /> * Nikon EN-EL3e battery<br /> * National Geographic Earth Explorer Medium Backpack (pretty cool bag - <a href="http://www.adorama.com/Als/ProductPage/NGBPM.html">link</a>)<br />* Sandisk 16gb Extreme SD-HC (2 of them, 32bg total)<br /> * Thom Hogan's D300s guidebook<br>

* Apple iMac 27" / 8gb ram / 512mb graphics / Aperture<br />* Canon Pixma Pro 9000 Mark II photo printer</p>

[pasi_h_gg]

Just to give you some side support on shooting in- camera jpegs :-) Though somewhat younger than your dad, i've come

through some of the same phases on my way from colour slides/negs to Dslr (mostly) raw via digital p/s. I found the p/ s

phase a total turnoff to photography, and this is not to put the class down in any way, just personal history. Shooting

jpegs with my then new D80 was pretty darn close to the experience of slide shooting with the joy of controlling exposure

and dof to desired outcome, with instant reward from the screen and easy printing/sharing. A wet dream in the bygone

years! This was a fun and important step to make the transition #enjoyable#, which I believe you're after as well. Your

dad may appreciate raw control but has the chance to take the steps at his discretion and leisure. I've nothing to add to the

excellent advice given regarding kit. However, i think he'll enjoy the primes a lot, as well as the one grip-twin wheel control

afforded by the Nikons (dont' know the Sony)

 

I'll have to print out this thread and pass on to my son later :-)

[mihai_ciuca]

<p>Hi,</p>

<p>I like very much your last kit proposal for your father. IMHO even D300s seems to be a huge step, I remember me jumping to a D700 after 15 years break from SLR experience... and I am still happy with my decision. I am sure that your father will enjoy a lot the build quality ofD300s that offers a true feeling of quality in comparison with these plastic-build bodies.</p>

<p>Ialso agree that primes could be a better solution for him. I love to shoot primes, even on my bag I have several pro zooms from Nikon. Since he is not going to shoot weddings, primes will serve him in a greater way.</p>

<p>In order to make the kit even more precious, I would like to add a good manual focus lens like Voigtlander Cosina 20mm f3.5 or an used legendary Nikon lens like 105mm f2.5 AI which is very appreciated today. Eventually you can skip the 50mm f1.4 G which is a good but not great lens in my opinion with Nikon 50mm f1.2 AIS which provides unbelievable results in low light. Using MF lensess on modern DSLRs is really a pleasure and I am sure your father will enjoy that!</p>

<p>Finally, you are a very good son! I am sorry that my father passed away before I had a chance to offer him a similar gift. Go for it and do the best you can. You will never regret.</p>

[photo5]

<p>The D300s would be a superb camera to give your father as a gift. I would not consider the D90 unless you aren't sure if he really wants to get into photography. I've had a D300 since November, 2007, and upgraded from a D80. The difference is night and day as far as I am concerned, and the D90 really doesn't have much more resolution than the D80 had according to tests done at dpreview.com.<br>

<br />The D300 is a Nikon classic digital SLR, just as the F100 was a classic film SLR. I don't see the D300 being eclipsed any time soon, and it's built to last. That for me is very important.</p>

<p>The 16-85mm is the right kit lens to buy, and the 70-300 VR is also a good telephoto. I was cheap and bought the ED version of that lens second hand for $200, not wanting to spring $300 more just for VR. I also bout a 55-200mm DX VR zoom which I think is very good for the money. I don't shoot telephoto very often so it's not a big deal for me.</p>

[left_ayyones]

<p>Alright, well here's how it went down. I couldn't come up with a D300s kit that would work in low light and not have my dad changing lenses every 5 minutes. Plus, each lens has different size filters!</p>

<p>So I went full frame, D700. Yes, there are pros and cons to both cameras, but really, I just wanted the simplicity of the 24-70 and 70-200. They don't really work the same on the D300s because of the crop factor. Like I said, my dad prefers high quality to weight, and simplicity to fiddlyness (i.e. swapping lenses) so I think this is a better match for him.</p>

<p>Ultimately, yeah, I blew my budget. But whatever, I think the ability to create stellar images combined with the simplicity of just having two excellent lenses instead of four+ good lenses makes it worth it. To me, the areas where the D700 shines in image quality outweigh the 'bells and whistles' of the D300s like video and dual memory cards. Plus you can get great instant rebates right now if you buy pro lenses with a D700 or D300s, and those lenses make a lot more sense on a full-frame body.</p>

<p>Thanks for all your help everyone!</p>

<p>Here's the decision making process I went through, ranked more or less in order of importance:</p>

<p><strong>Areas where<br />D700 is better </strong> // D300s<br />FX - future compatible // DX - will eventually be eclipsed by cheaper FX cameras<br />better high iso // good high iso<br />better dynamic range // good dynamic range<br />nikkor 'pro' lenses focal lengths are right // nikkor 24-70 & wide angle all wrong<br />big viewfinder // medium viewfinder<br />made in japan // made in taiwan</p>

<p><strong>Areas where<br />D300s is better</strong> // D700<strong> </strong><br />less expensive // more expensive<br />lighter weight // heavier weight<br />dx crop effect results in better telephoto // standard zoom effect<br />100% viewfinder // 95% viewfinder<br />720p video // no video<br />SD and CF // compact flash<br /><br /><br>

<strong>The full kit is:</strong><br>

Nikon D700 Digital SLR Camera<br />Nikon 24-70mm f/2.8G ED-IF AF-S Lens<br />Nikon 70-200mm f/2.8G AF-S VR II ED-IF Lens<br />Nikon 77mm Neutral Clear Filter<br />Nikon 77mm Circular Polarizer II Thin Ring Multi-Coated Glass Filter</p>

<p>Nikon EN-EL3e Rechargeable Li-ion Battery<br />Nikon Micro Fiber Lens Cleaning Cloth<br />Nikon SB-600 TTL AF Shoe Mount Speedlight</p>

<p>SanDisk 16 GB Extreme Professional Grade Compact Flash Memory Card - Pack of 2<br />SanDisk Extreme IV Compact Flash Card I & II Reader / Writer, with FireWire 800/400<br />National Geographic Earth Explorer Medium Backpack<br />Sto-Fen Omni-Bounce Nikon SB600<br />Thom's guide to D700 (full printed version)</p>

<p>Apple iMac 27" / 8GB Ram / 512MB Video<br />Seagate 1.0 TB FreeAgent Desktop External Hard Drive for Mac, with FireWire and USB 2.0 Interface<br />Canon PIXMA Pro9000 Mark II Photo Printer<br /><br /></p>