Good source for good priced processing chemicals?

[victor_bareno]

<p>I'm in the US, so shipping isn't really an issue. I want to develop B&W and E6 at home. I was going to do C-41 as well, but I don't think I am anymore because it would cost me about the same. Locally, C-41 is $2/roll. Pro-lab slide processing is $8.25 and B&W is $11. So, processing at home will save me money. I plan to scan everything, and in the future enlarge some B&W for print (8x10 probably).</p>

<p>Anyhoo, I've seen chemicals all over the place, from BH photo, Freestyle, etc. There are many different kits for both B&W and slide. For slide, we've got the 6-step and the 3-step, and I believe they can come in powders or concentrate, and for B&W, there's a wide assortment of powders and concentrates. I do not think I will need a stop-bath, I will just rinse thoroughly. I would just like to know (with specific links) which sets of chemicals (kits are OK too) I should buy. I am looking for cheap, but not junk chemicals. I would like to save as much money as possible. It does not matter to me whether it's powder or liquid concentrate, as long as it's cheapest. Again, I need the right stuff for both B&W and E6.</p>

<p><br />Thanks</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Kodak E6 kit from Adorama, D76 black and white film developer, Kodak Dektol paper developer, Kodak indicator stop bath, Ilford Rapid fixer 1 liter for both film and paper, mix according to the bottle. You do need a stop bath, and it's dirt cheap. One stop shopping and they will ship in the lower 48. If you live in Hawaii, forget getting an E6 kit from anyone, Alaska may be the same too.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>Pardon my lack of knowledge. But you suggested the Kodak E6 kit. That will take care of all my slide developing? check.</p>

<p>The next products you list are exclusively for B&W then? The paper developer would be for prints, right? I don't think I'll need that because I won't print for a while. Using a stop bath would only be for B&W right? OK, I'll use the stop bath then.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>I also had a question about the chemicals. Can I re-use them after I've mixed them? (both E6 and B&W). The Kodak kit makes 5 liters. Let's say I have a 500mL tank and I want to process a roll of 35mm in it. I mix all 6 chemicals up to 500mL. I use them, and instead of throwing them out, can I put them back into a container for extra uses? Otherwise, since the kit is $60, it would give me 10 uses, which would cost $6 a roll. That sounds quite inefficient.</p>

<p>Same question for B&W chemicals. Can I save them for later use...?</p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>With the B&W D76 developer you mix up 5 litres or however much the kit is for. Then you can dilute the D76 1:1 when you use it so for a 500ml tank you take 250ml of stock and add 250mm water. That get thrown out after use usually. You can also use the D76 stock solution straight without dilution. Kodak has instructions how to do this so you don't waste developer.</p>

<p>When I mix D76 I put the stock solution into a few separate bottles. I put 3 litres in a 3 litre container filled to the top with no airspace. Then I fill another 1 liter container to the top and the remaining 1 litre goes into 2 500ml bottle. I use soda bottles for most of my chemicals and I begin working with 500ml bottles when they are empty. I refil them from one of the bigger bottles.</p>

[tim gray]

<p>The Kodak E6 kit should cover all your slide needs. I've not used it yet, but directions for mixing and use should come with the kit. Looks like it's single use:<br>

http://www.kodak.com:80/global/plugins/acrobat/en/professional/products/chemistry/e6Processing/ppi582.pdf</p>

<p>For B&W film, pick a developer, a fixer, and photoflo. I like XTOL. Mix it up, put into 10 .5 liter bottles. When it's time to develop, dilute it 1:1, develop, then pour it out. You get about 42 rolls out of it - costs $9. I use Ilford Rapid Fix, but there are plenty of other options to look into. Mix up 1.5 liters of that and its good for 60 rolls (if I remember right) - capacity is on the side of the bottle. I fix, and pour the solution back into the bottle. I skip the stop bath and just use water - never had a problem. Go through my wash sequence, then dunk the film in a final rinse of water and photoflo, mixed 1:300. Hang it up to dry. All in all, should cost MUCH less than $11/roll.</p>

<p>If you really must have the cheapest B&W developer, maybe look into D76, Rodinal, something by Sprint or Arista, etc. The Arista stuff can only be got at Freestyle, as the rest of it can, but sometimes B&H has cheaper prices on the others. The E6 kit can be ordered from Adorama. Honestly, with the exception of DD-X and a couple of other devs, they are all cheap enough that price really doesn't matter that much. So I just use XTOL. $0.20/roll. If you wanted to, you could use it at 1:2 or 1:3 and save even more money, but the times are harder to find for that. For that matter, you could run it at full strength and replenish it instead of dumping it after use. Mix up the 5 liters and split it into two - use half for development and the other half for replenishment according to the instructions. That might be the cheapest of all.</p>

[allklier]

<p>I've used the Kodak E6 kit. Pretty straightforward. It's the 6bath process, though mixing all the chemicals results in 7 bottles you'll end up with. Processing instructions are included. It's a single-use set, so you throw it out. Good results. If you make less than 5 litres, you need some good measuring cups since the concentrations come in different sizes, some of the 7 solutions have multiple ingredients to mix.</p>

[ed_lusthoff]

<p>Victor the Arista e-6 is good. I buy the 1 gal. and mix what I need. I save the film until I have 10 rolls to be developed and do them all at one time. Then throw the chems away. I keep the unused in the original containers tightly stoppered. I have found that they will go bad in about 6 months. The E-6 mixed will go bad on you quickly, in about 1 month. For B&W my personal opinion is stick with KODAK. I have tried the Arista film developer it is alright, but film seems to come out a little flat. I do not like their liquid fixer. It says 1:9 dil. for 2 min? I have diluted it 1:4 for 10 min and still was not fixed . The Arista powder fixer is better, but again I like KODAK I have diluted that 1:2 /2min came out great. Why do you not want to use a stop bath? A cap full for two min in the tank will save you 10 minutes in wash time and severql gallons of water. Also use a hypo clearing after fixing cuts way down on washing time. Hope this helps.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>shipping CAN be an issue in the USA; some carriers now view stuff like it is a massive danger.</p>

<p>Thus it is a bit dice to assume that shipping is not an issue. In some cube containers of fixer I had set by truck 3 years ago; there was an extra fee added for dangerous chemicals; ie the acid harder.</p>

<p>After 9/11 the shipping costs at my friends C41 lab doubled due to all the tacked on hazard fees.</p>

<p>In a couple of dumb 1 oz glues I buy in repairs; the glue is about 6 per tube but there is a 9 buck added fee and it can one be sent on a subset of carriers; thus I buy many at once. Look at the shipping costs before you buy chemicals; or use your cellphone to call the moon! :)</p>

<p>Some stuff like the Kodak acid hardener B most carriers will not touch anymore.</p>

<p>Many places will not ship even acufine developer that comes in a can anymore; like it is Uranium waste or some massive biohazard.</p>

<p>This saying "shipping is not an issue" means you have to drive to the store; maybe Missouri to NYC!</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Victor' Look and places websites;</p>

<p>you will find there is no shipping available anymore for some products that were shipped for eons by us post office or ups.</p>

<p>Thus If I look B&H's great site and I am in California or the South East; I would have to drive to New York City to buy some Accufine; Diafine; Rodinal; Edwal FG7; developers I have used for decades.</p>

<p>In C41 it looks like some kits are shipable; but some replacement chemicals are not.</p>

<p>Thus see if the items you want to buy are shippable at your target vendors at all; and at what cost too. </p>

<p>A local camera store that closed down awhile back was paying hazard fees equal to shipping fees on some items; and thus stopped carrying many items.</p>

<p> If money is not an issue than shipping costs can be absorbed as a nil cost! :)</p>

<p> many common photo and other items that I have bought for decades seem to be fading away and with some the shipping costs are higher than the items cost</p>

[karl_fermedfor]

<p>Victor: Do yourself a favor and don't go through middlemen.<br /><br />Kodak, FujiHunt, at least in the U.S., have distributors in Rochester and North Carolina that get the shipments straight from the factory.<br>

<br /><br />They will usually be the cheapest, but they price according to your volume. If you can buy at least a couple hundred dollars at at time, or your currency's equivalent, they will usually give you a better price.<br>

Hope this helps.</p>

<p>Of course, if you are a really big player, you can buy straight from the source. This entails order volumes of at least a thousand dollars at a time, usually.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>Alot of responses here. I am pretty sure shipping is OK on most things, I'm in Southern California. Freestylephoto ships ground shipping on chemicals, and they're only a 2 hour drive away. For everything else, I believe the prices aren't too bad as long as I use ground shipping only.</p>

<p>@Karl - I don't have that kind of money at the moment. I'm just an amateur who likes to do this as a hobby. I can't just go buying in large quantities right now...</p>

<p>Anyways, for B&W film, I think I'll go with the Kodak, as recommended. I see the D-76 mix makes 1 gallon, how many rolls of film will that let me do? And then I'll get the Ilford Rapid Fixer, and the Kodak Indicator stop bath. Also, can I reuse all these chemicals (once at least)? And is "photoflo" the same thing as stop-bath?<br>

I will try to get all the B&W locally as it is available. The E-6 kit I will order from adorama. Does this all look OK to you guys?<br>

http://www.nelsonphotosupplies.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[product_guids][0]=c5458b7e-0f1d-44b9-be7b-152c2a2b6003<br>

http://www.nelsonphotosupplies.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[product_guids][0]=7273a0c7-79ad-4011-b59a-7086752ab8c0<br>

http://www.nelsonphotosupplies.com/spec_sheet.html?catalog[product_guids][0]=017d251e-4fc3-4cbf-8176-185b9375b91e [2 of these]<br>

http://www.adorama.com/KKE6SU5L.html#</p>

 

[tim gray]

<p>If you use D76 and mix it 1:1 and dispose of it after you use it once, you should get about 32 rolls per gallon. This assumes stainless tanks that take 8 ounces of solution per roll. 128 oz / 4 = 32. 4 oz of developer since you mix it with 4 ounces of water in 1:1. If you don't use it 1:1, but at full strength and throw it out after one use, you'll be able to do half that. You can probably reuse it at full strength, but you'd need to either replenish it or adjust your times as you develop more film. I've not done either so I can't give you hints on what to do - check the <a href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j78/j78.pdf">D76 data sheet</a>.</p>

<p>Rapid Fix is good for 24 rolls per liter at 1+4, if I recall correctly. You can reuse, but stop when you've either reached that capacity, or the time it takes to clear a scrap of film doubles. Test it when you mix it up and drop a piece of film in. Say it takes 1 min to clear. When you do that same test on the used fixer at a later date, and it takes 2 mins to clear, mix up fresh fixer. Or when you hit the 24 rolls/liter.</p>

<p>Photoflo is not a stop bath. It is a surfactant that helps prevent water drying marks on your film. You put in a couple drops to water in the very last wash step. So put the film in the photoflo/water solution, pull it out, and hang it up to dry. It's cheap. Buy a small bottle of photoflo 200.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>Thanks. I think 32 rolls of dev for $8 is pretty good. For the rapid fix, do you mean 24 rolls for one liter of it mixed, or from concentrate? The 1L bottle i'm getting makes 5L...</p>

<p>And I understand what photoflo is now. I see. I'll get some of that then.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Victor;<br>

I just mix up 1 gallon of stock D76 and store in in 5 glass wine bottles; it fills 4 up and one part way. These last me 1 year in SoCal in the fulll bottles; sometimes alot longer too. I dilute it with 1 part water before I use it; ie a 1:1 mix and throw it away; like Tim does.<br>

I have done this for about 50 years; thus I have a scheme that works. The bottles are all locked up if any kids or others are around; they are kept under the sink in the dark</p>

<p><br /> The point I make about shipping is it is not available; ie not offered on all B&W and color products. Thus in SoCal I might buy chemicals from Freestyle while visiting there; that they or B&H will NOT ship. Thus the oddball stuff that places will or cannot ship I buy and stock up on when actually visiting a photo outfit. </p>

<p>All your links are of stuff I have used before; except I used Kodak Rapid fixer since I have about a 1000 year supply of it!<br>

<br /> In the Ventura Cty area the water has some hardness; so did my ancient Indiana house as a kid; thus I used Photoflo and with distilled water too as a rinse; because tap water has some crud in it. how much photoflo depends on the water hardness; in some places the water is very soft and one almost needs no photoflo (it reduces streaks)</p>

<p>Long ago I use to get chemicals at Franks Camera in Highland park; they are gone now. In Ventura there is Dexters camera on main st, In santa barbara there are less camera stores than decades ago. You listed Nelsons in LaHoya and San Diego. Canoga Camera I have not been to in several years.</p>

<p><br /> After Franks camera closed I got alot of darkroom supplies at Frys electronics on the SF valley; even bought several film and digitals there too. Now I have never seen any chemicals there anymore.<br /> If you find a local outfit strive to buy your chemicals there if all possible.</p>

[tim gray]

<p>Fixer - 24 rolls/liter of mixed solution. You mix it one part concentrate, 4 parts water. So your jug will do a total of 24*5 = 120 rolls.</p>

<p>B&H doesn't ship certain things, but Freestyle should ship everything they have. Same with Adorama.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>whoops, double post by accident</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>For cheap developer, Kodak HC-110 is the way to go. Mix directly from syrup, use single-use.<br>

Stop bath for B&W is an option, but it may pay for itself in extended fixer life.<br>

For fixer, nothing is cheaper or better than Kodak Flexicolor C-41 fixer. The jug to make 5 gallons is dirt cheap, and it's a very effective fixer, great for B&W as well.<br>

Review the Kodak Data Sheet for D-76 when reading Tim's response. The data sheet times for D-76 1:1 are for 8 ounces of developer and 8 ounces of water in a 16 ounce tank for one 35mm roll of film. If you only use 4 and 4 you will have developer exhaustion, and need to add 10% to the processing times. So if you follow Kodak's directions, you use 8 ounces of developer per roll either way, that's 16 rolls per gallon of developer. You'll also notice that's the lifetime of D-76 if you pour the developer back into the jug. So use it single-use no matter what, and you don't need to add a little to the times for each roll you've run through your gallon.<br>

But HC-110 is cheaper per roll than D-76, and the syrup is nearly eternal.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>It's cheaper on Adorama than at my local store, so I guess i'll order with them. I just have a question about storage.</p>

<p>Let's say I have some HC-110, it comes in a container that makes 2 gallons. So I mix this up per instructions, and I have 2 gallons of solution. I then put it all into several empty wine bottles. This is the storage life info:</p>

<p><em>Keeping Properties Stock, liquid concentrate solution, or Dilution A in closed container (full)-6 months; 2 months in a half full container</em><br /><em>Dilution B in a closed container (full)-3 months; 1 month in a half full container</em></p>

<p>There's 2 mixing charts. One for stock solution, and one for concentrate. I am guessing mine is concentrate. So lets say I want to make dilution A for the most shelf life. So I get 473mL of the developer and 7.1L of water, and mix them. So now I have 2 gallons of solution, which I put into the wine bottles. Is this the right way to be doing things? If I have 7 bottles, and I only use 1 and a half bottle a month, will the others hold up OK? I really don't know much about this.</p>

<p><br />Also, would this same principle apply to fixers and whatnot? thanks</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>It seems like mixing it all and storing is a hassle. Would it be better to only mix the solution when I need it? Like, if I have the big bottle of concentrate and I want 9oz of solution for my tank, I would get 1 part concentrate and 9 parts water and just put it in. Does this make sense? If I do this, what would the shelf life of the concentrate bottle be?</p>

<p>Sorry for the amateur questions and thank you</p>

[tim gray]

<p>If you are using a liquid dev like HC-110, yes, one of the advantages is that you only have to mix up what you need. So only mix up enough to fill you tank right before you develop. The shelf life of the concentrate should be much longer this way.</p>

[ed_lusthoff]

<p>Victor If you are in the L.A. Area just go over to Santa Fe Springs to the Freestylae warehouse and pick up your chem's. By the time you pay shipping and waiting time you actually pay more in some cases. They are about a mile east of the 5-605 interchange or head up to Hollywood visit their retail store and make a shooting day out of it. Near Sunset and Western. Heck, head over to Pinks get a couple of dogs, watch the show and click away.</p>

[victor_bareno]

<p>I'm in San Diego, so LA is quite a drive away...</p>

<p>@Tim:<br>

Thanks for the answer about the mixing. Does the same rule apply for fixers/the other chemicals I will use?</p>

<p>And more importantly, does the same apply to the E-6 chemicals? (all 6). Thanks.</p>

[gateway]

<p>This week, my first ever order for darkroom chemicals was between BH, and Freestyle. The 'will not ship' on certain items for in-store pickup only, and lower cost of shipping led me to...FREESTYLE!</p>

<p>Fedex Ground has scheduled the delivery for Tuesday...</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>John; the "will not ship' on certain items for in-store pickup only" often is because it cannot be shipped; or it is a mess to ship. That is why up the thread I mentioned to consider shipping costs; or if an item can be shipped; ie buy it local too.<br /> <br /> By mess to ship *sometimes* this odder items are shipable; but as a vendor it involves a mess of forms; and or it has to be shipped say 1 or 2 day air and or one has a hazard fee too.<br /> <br /> With one obscure 1 gallon bottle of some "stuff" I sell every blue moon; a 2 decades ago we shipped by Greyhound ; then it was only ground UPS. Then it got to be it had to go 1 day air plus a hazard fee. Thus that 13.5 buck in store price becomes say 100 bucks to UPS it 100 miles away. to send it to South America costs 200 to 300 bucks; more absurd.<br /> <br /> After awhile one just flags the items "in-store pickup only" because it ends time wasted in explaining.<br /> <br /> To buy the gallons of "the stuff" for resale has me buying a pallet of it sent by truck to me. I only order it every 2 to 3 years; the truck fee might be 95 bucks; and an extra 100 for hazard fee. Every time I order "the stuff" I have to figure how much to buy; to cut the per unit (freight + hazard fee). The lay public wants to buy a jug of the stuff for 2 bucks; like it was in the Nixon era; but today is 13.50 with all the extra fees<br>

Even stuff as dumb as a lamp ; safelight; desklamp has "issues" today in California. The green patrol wants has halted an made it illegal to buy a lamp with an incandescent bulb; it has to have a CFL bulb now. Thus one is suppose to remove the filament bulb and use a CFL bulb</p>