Star Trails/Lightning Shots

[andrew_jacobson3]

<p>Hey guys,</p>

<p> I am still relatively new to the world of photography. I've been experimenting alot with different things and I've ran into multiple questions. I've read alot of the other questions that have been posted, but it is quite likely that I missed something along the way, so I apologize if I ask something that has already been posted.</p>

<p> My 1st question involves star trails. As I said, I've read some of the other posts on this subject, but alot of them are talking about 30 minute exposers. I fire a Canon Rebel XSi with a 70-300mm and a 50mm lens, and, as I am on a college student budget, I do not foresee that changing any time soon. I've tried taking time exposers before, but my shutter only opens to 30'', which, I assumed anyway, means for 30 seconds. The problem that I run into is that there really isn't much of a trail.</p>

<p> I know that I can use a stitching program to edit a group of shots together, but is that even going to work with that short of an exposer?</p>

<p> Also, when I'm doing a shot like that, what do I focus on?</p>

<p> If all of that works out, is there a way that I can focus on something (Dimly lit tent, Town at night, etc.) without frying the entire shot?</p>

<p> On a completely unrelated note, I've always thought that Lightning shots were awesome and there is a gravel pit near where I live that would be absolutly perfect for that kind of shot (Well.. And perfect for getting fried...). I've tried getting shots like this in the past, but either my shot was too dim because the shutter was too fast, or the whole thing was just blurry... Any tips on how to get these particular kinds of shots (Preferably without imitating the clock tower in back to the future)?</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

[mtk]

<p>I will address the lightning thing first:<br>

I would suggest your 50mm lens and really suggest you try to get a wide angle lens of some sort. Doesn't have to be expensive. A basic kit lens would be more than fine. Make sure you have a tripod (or something close to it). You also should get a remote control of some kind, wired or wireless. You can shoot lightning with the self timer, but that can be clunky. Assuming you will be shooting the lightning shots in the evening or night, I would suggest opening up lens to maximum aperature. Make sure your camera is set to manual focus and focus yourself accordingly. Set your camera to the bulb setting and leave open for 20-30 seconds at a time (obviously pointed at the storm) Keep shooting 20-30 second exposures until you get the shot(s) you want. USE COMMON SENSE FOR YOUR SAFETY I have been shooting lightning for several years using this technique and it really works well. You can try stopping your lens down if you start to get your pic too bright from surrounding light.<br>

Star trails....LOTS OF INFO HERE ON PN. The short answer(s) to your question is it makes a better picture if you include something "earth bound" (tree, bush, house, mountain, etc) in your photo. In this case you will set your focus point to those items. Keep in mind in the dark you may have to provide some light (high power flashlight/spotlight) for your camera to focus on, or manually focus yourself. If you do not include earth stuff, then simply set your focus to infinity.<br>

As far as the stitching programs go I would do online search as they will provide the most specific information that you will need. Another simple inexpensive consideration for star pics is any manully focused (non battery op shutter) 35mm film body used with a tripod and cable release and wide angle lens can be a blast for star pics. Also consider that a wide angle on a film body remains "wide angle" as opposed to being mounted on an APS sized sensor on a digital body. 400 speed film. Using a variety of settings and recording the results is very helpful to what works for you and your equipment. I would also recommend you read up some on astronomy and constellations as well. Plenty of info on the net.<br>

I wish you well....These are both types of photography that I enjoy and find fun and fascinating!<br />Mark</p>

[steven_f1]

<p>When taking pictures of lighting, if you cannot do it from inside a building, I would suggest takiing the pictures from inside your car. If lightning hits the car the metal body will conduct the electricity safely around until it get to the wheel where it will thensafely jump from the metal past the rubber to ground. This has been demonstrated on TV with reporters or scientist in the car while it is hit by artificially created lightning. </p>

<p>For both types of photography you will be using long exposures which means hand holding the camera is out of the question. You need a trypod. If taking pictures from the car you can clamp the camera to the window (make sur the camera doesn't touch any metal of the car body. You will also be using the camera in its bulb setting or manual setting. So read your manual on how to use those modes. And lastly a remote cable release is very helpful.</p>

<p>For star trails the old way of doing it (with film) was to put the camera in bulb mode attach the cable release, set the aperture of your lens to wide open. Using the cable release you open the shutter and and lock it open. Come back a couple of hours later or longer and close the shutter</p>

<p>With digital you can do the same thing but you get a lot of sensor noise . The common way to deal with the issue is to manually set the exposure to 30seconds, aperture wide open, and set your shutter to continous. Connect the cable release, and press down the button and lock it down. This will cause the camera to take a series of 30 second exposures with reasonalble noise levels in the image. Then after you have downloaded the images using software stitch the images together to give you the effect of a very long exposure. </p>

<p>Note some cameras have long exposure noise reduction. You probably will want to turn this off. Long exposure noise reduction would cause the camera to take a 30 second exposure followed by a second 30 second exposure with the shutter closed. The camera then subtract the second noise only exposure from the first exposure This process willresult in 30 second gaps which you don't want.</p>

<p>Note that for star trails I am suggesting setting the lens aperture to wide open. Some lenses don't work that well wide open. You might find you get better results by stoping down the lens 1 or 2 stops. </p>

<p>For thunderstormes the key is to set your exposure to as slow as you can go. 20-30 seconds would be ideal. You can either set the camera for continous shooting or set the camera to bulb and manually start the exposure and end it right after a lightning bolt appears. You will probably have to set the iso to its minimum setting and stop down the lens aperture.</p>

<p>As to focusing if your camera has live view turn live view on and manually focus. Live view wll lighten the image that appears on the screen making it much easier. Otherwise you can focus the lens during the day and put a mark on the focus ring as well as the main body of the lens. Or you can put a flash light in the field of view fare enough away that when you focus manually or *if you are lucky autofocus) that the lens will be focused at infinity. No mater how you focus be sure to put the lens into manual focus before you start shooting. Also note that some zoom lenses have different infinity focus point on the focus ring if the zoom setting is changed. so be sure o set the zoom first before you focus.</p>

<p> </p>

[andrew_jacobson3]

<p>Now, I know that my camera has a high ISO noise remover.. Is that the same thing? When the noise remover takes that 30 second gap, it doesn't need to be in the same place does it? ANd, does it even really work?</p>

<p>I guess what I mean to ask is, if I were to leave the shutter open for.. Say 15 minutes.. Will that noise remover still work if I were to move the camera?</p>

[silverdae]

<p><a href="../nature-photography-forum/00WEk5">http://www.photo.net/nature-photography-forum/00WEk5</a></p>

<p>This link to thread a few below yours shows what happens on really long digital exposures. The noise you get from very long exposures is a different kind of noise than the pixely stuff you are used to seeing at say 1600 iso. If you want to give it a shot and see what happens with your camera on really long exposures (over 30 seconds), there should be a setting somewhere in the camera menu that allows you set the maximum exposure time to either "bulb" or 30 seconds. Yours is set to 30 seconds right now. "Bulb" lets you click the shutter once to open it, then click it again to close it. This is where a cable release comes in handy.</p>

<p>My last post in the linked thread links you a site that explains exactly how to stack 30 second exposures into a star trail photograph using an image manipulation program (this one uses photoshop). It really isn't as complicated as you think once you understand the basics. </p>

<p>Experiment and read up on this online. Search "star trail photography" for starters. Long exposures at night are a different breed than regular "daylight" exposures, but the differences are easy to pick up on once you read a bit and experiment. Good Luck!</p>

[steven_f1]

<blockquote>

<p>Now, I know that my camera has a high ISO noise remover.. Is that the same thing?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Read your manual. It should state what it does. I don't have the Xsi.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>When the noise remover takes that 30 second gap, it doesn't need to be in the same place does it? </p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I guess what I mean to ask is, if I were to leave the shutter open for.. Say 15 minutes.. Will that noise remover still work if I were to move the camera?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think you are confusing noise with camera motion. Noise is variations in the color and brightness of the pixels. Moving the cameras has no effect on that. Moving the cameras when you are taking a picture will blur the iimage because the camera is not in the same place as it was when you started the exposure. That is why you need a tripod. There is no way around it. You cannot move the camera when you are taking a long exposure.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>ANd, does it even really work?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes it still works but with longer exposures the causes of noise is different and as a reslut the process is not as effective. But like I said earlier it won't prevent blurred images if the cameras is moved.</p>

[andrew_jacobson3]

<p>Now.. Jen, I read the link that was on the other post about how to stack pictures and I had another random question. In it, they say that you should take the star pictures, then take a foreground shot. Now, the article was a bit confusing, and I guess I should probably chalk this up to common sense, but the foreground that they are talking about... I assume that it should already be the focus of the star pictures as well?</p>

[silverdae]

<p>I believe what they mean is to exposure all of your shots for the star trails, then after completing that series, light your foreground and shoot for that. For instance, if you wanted trails going behind a building, you would put your camera on the tripod and shoot all of your star trail pictures in the exact composition you want the final image to be. Then, without moving the camera, shoot your foreground exposure (expose for your foreground, focusing on it). Not moving will make stacking possible- the breaks in the star trails will line up with the foreground objects. </p>

<p>Is that what you're asking about?</p>

[andrew_jacobson3]

<p>Yeah, basically. It shouldn't make any difference if I take the foreground shot before the trails will it?</p>