Taking group pictures - your help needed

[vikas_kohli]

<p>I end up clicking quite a few pictures at family get-togethers and such parties at our / friends' place and am always looking for a perfect picture - everyone on focus; left-right and both rows if people are standing in two rows etc.</p>

<p>What should be the best setting both assuming I want background blurred and on a few occasions background in some detail ?</p>

<p>I use D90 and have the kit lenses 18-105 (VR) and 70-300 (VR). And have since added Sigma 50mm 1.4 and Nikkor 35 mm 1.8.</p>

<p>Looking for what you all normally would recommend to be the aperture etc for sharp pic.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance.</p>

 

[titospna]

<p>In general, f8 usually works for everyone in focus; use a smaller aperture to achieve out of focus background.</p>

[ArthurRichardson]

<p>How big are your groups? 2, 20 a thousand. Depending on the group with and depth your choice of lenses are limited.<br>

I'd opt for the 50 or 35mm since they are the sharpest in your bag and give a good dof compared to the tele and better corner sharpness compared to the 18-55. I was told the Sigma 50mm is dream lens.<br>

Why not go into town and shoot some people and check out the dof variation using different aperture settings or different lenses. Not very scientific, but it should give some idea of what to expect.<br>

Don't forget that light availabilty may influence your choices too.</p>

[vikas_kohli]

<p>Tito, Arthur - thanks. I am talking about 8-10 people standing in one row.. or sometimes 12-15 in two rows.. but it varies.</p>

<p>Tito - when we say f8 gives good everyone focus, I get that... but then what do you mean by smaller aperture on top of that.. just trying to understand If I pick f8 then I get what I get in terms of out background oof - no ? And that is what my dilemma is actually I want people in focus but background off.. does it work when there are 10 people in the group ? I fear some will be in focus and others will start getting blurred..<br>

Arthur - are we saying that I should use 35mm 1.8 (let's say at f8) rather than the 18-105 @ f8 ?</p>

[vikas_kohli]

<p>Above I meant "are we saying that I should use 35mm 1.8 (let's say at f8) rather than the 18-105 @ f8 @35mm ? Will there be a difference in quality of the pic if both fixed 35mm (1.8) and 18-105mm are used with same f8 ?</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>There will be a difference because these are different lenses (number of elements, design, coatings, materials, etc.) that will result in different resolution, eveness, contrast, bokeh... but both should give you the very same <em>depth of field</em>, given that you were using both at the same focal lenght, distance and aperture.<br /> <br /> My advice:<br /> 1. Read and understand about Depth Of Field (photography basics).<br /> 2. Check the Depth Of Field you need at <a href="http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html">DofMaster</a>.</p>

[vikas_kohli]

<p>Thanks Jose for clarifying that... that's what I thought too. So sounds like in the end it depends on quality of the glass/manuf etc.</p>

<p>I have done a bit of reading being a new DSLR user and do get the creative effects I want using individual cameras, and mostly am happy with shots of individuals, where there is also better time to review / repose. But I would like to understand how group shots can also achieve better overall focus.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>With the DoF control you can get what you want... if it is under the limits of what is feasible. You`ll have a bit of flexibility placing the plane of focus closer or further, for a more or less blurred background, but your models should be inside the DoF limits.</p>

<p>I`m not expert in group photography, but I suspect the issue here could be to keep a reasonable working distance without getting an exagerated perspective distortion if a wide angle lens is needed, and another one, illumination if the group is large.</p>

 

[cc_chang2]

<blockquote>

<p>But I would like to understand how group shots can also achieve better overall focus.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The smaller the aperture, the more DOF, thus more likely that people in two or three rows can be in focus. You can check various DOF calculators (found on line and some can be used in iPhone) at the scene to find out whether you have enough DOF or you can take a few test shots. Sometimes you may not want to focus on the people in the front row but at a point slightly behind them to take advantage of the spread of the DOF. Keep in mind that as aperture is getting smaller, less light is reaching the sensor. If you don't use flash, it will reach a point where you no longer have enough light. Thus if you are doing this indoor, you need a flash. Another technique is to shoot above the group of people. In this way, the plane of the camera sensor is more parallel to the surface on which people stand, thus making it easy to get everyone in focus.</p>

[richardsnow]

<p>Depth of Field (DoF) is determined by aperture, focal length, and distance to subject.</p>

<p>Using your Nikkor 35mm f/1.8 should give you a wide enough field of vision on the D90 to get everyone in the shots you describe without being too far away.</p>

<p>Put your camera in Aperture Priority (A) and set your aperture to f/11.</p>

<p>If you're shooting everyone in one line, focus on the person in the center of the frame's eyes.</p>

<p>If you're shooting 2 rows of people, have the back center person hold out their hand, palm out and focus on that.</p>

<p>Everyone should be in sharp focus and the background should be sufficiently out of focus. If you don't feel you have enough out of focus, set your aperture to f/8 and try again. If you're still not happy, try f/5.6. Keep going until you're happy with the results of both the in-focus subjects and the blurred background.</p>

<p>Provided you have patient friends, you should be able to get the results you desire.</p>

<p>Hope this helps.<br>

RS </p>

[titospna]

<p>Kikas: I suggest you read a book called "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson. It will answer many of your questions.</p>

[ArthurRichardson]

<p>Like Jose said the dof between the 35/50mm and the 18-105 will be the same at the same focal lenght and aperture. The primes however have lager maximum apertures, which allow for more variation in dof than the zoom. Furthermore the primes are much better lenses. DOF master will give you a good idea of the possibilities, but why not use the DOF preview button if available on the D90.</p>

 

[vikas_kohli]

<p>Jose, Arthur, CC Chang, Richard - Thanks a lot... your suggestions are really helpful. i tried f8 yesterday awith 2 rows of people and worked out nicely. Arthur - I will check out the DOF button, have never used it before.</p>

<p>Tito - I have actually read that book and have all the books fro Bryan :) but I ahd questions which are best answered by a friend of helpful forum members like you and the group above. Nowhere in his book is the question answered about people in multiple rows (if it is... then my apologies that I did not read it clearly)...</p>

<p>And as a friend told me recently when I shared with him that I was very unhappy with some of the pics I clicked recently that it is what will force me to learn and improve.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

[sasvata__shash__chatterjee]

<blockquote>

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=5907028">Kikas Vohli</a> , Apr 19, 2010; 11:32 a.m.<br>

when we say f8 gives good everyone focus, I get that... but then what do you mean by smaller aperture on top of that.. just trying to understand If I pick f8 then I get what I get in terms of out background oof - no ? And that is what my dilemma is actually I want people in focus but background off.. does it work when there are 10 people in the group ?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Vikas, the way to use f8 and get the background OOF is to (when possible) separate the people from the background in distance. Moreover, if you can make the camera-to-people distance smaller than the people-to-background distance then it will be even better. DoF changes for aperture (smaller aperture gets more DoF), with focal length (lower focal length gets more DoF), and camera-to-subject distance (the farther away you focus, the more DoF you get).</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>While it`s true that at a fixed focus distance DoF change with focal lenght, to be precise we should say that DoF change with <em>magnification</em>, not with focal lenght.</p>

[vikas_kohli]

<p>Thanks Sasvata.. that is a helpful quick summary. Jose - actually yo uare right, I did start scratching my hea, but I understaood that it meant zoom / magnification. Thanks</p>

[sasvata__shash__chatterjee]

<p>Jose, to be pedantic, DoF is a function of focal length and distance being two separate variables. Look at the <a href="http://www.dofmaster.com/equations.html">equations here</a>. Magnification is the effect of focal length and distance combined. But, we are just haggling over terms :-), pun intended.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>Ok, ok, Sasvata... While it`s true that DoF can be calculated with that variables, I think we cannot say that focal lenght affect DoF... at least in a practical and noticeable quantity.<br /> DoF is directly related to aperture and magnification. Focal lenght does not affect DoF <em>per se</em>, simply because you can get the same DoF with lenses from very different focal lenghts <strong>if</strong> aperture and magnification are the same.<br /> Anyway, you`re right. I just wanted to point out some concepts that are usually misunderstood. :)</p>

[gk_sullivan]

<p>A little off topic but I get better results if I take multiple shots of groups at the same time. I set the camera to continuous and shoot a 1-2 second burst. You will generally get one in which no one is blinking or looking stupid.</p>

<p>G</p>

[vikas_kohli]

<p>GK - that is a great idea, but just to add that it will need tripod for sure ...</p>