7D vs 5D lenses

[karena_wong]

<p>Hi All, I'm starting out with Digital SLRs and have narrowed it down to the 7D and the older 5D (which i'd get 2ndhand and have more money to invest in lenses). What are thoughts on which camera to go for and which lenses would you suggest for all round starting lens and also for portrait and outdoor landscapes?</p>

[denisgermain]

<p>Sorry but the question doesn't make sense to me: High-end cameras.... with cheap lenses?<br />Get a rebel and better lenses instead.</p>

[karena_wong]

<p>..based on which camera.. thats why i posted the question ...have no idea which lens to get (or which camera) as I jsut starting out!</p>

[steveg]

<p>I can't answer the question for the 7D, but for a 5D a good starting lens would be the EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS lens - This is the lens that sits on my 5DMKII for 80% of the time as it covers (for me) the most useful range (medium wide to medium telephoto).<br>

I'm not sure what the equivalent would be for the 7D.</p>

[joel_b.1]

<p>Probably the best one-lens solution for the 5D would be the EF 24-105 that Steve recommends.</p>

<p>For the 7D or other crop-body cameras, I would suggest the EFS 17-55 2.8 IS. That lens is on my 7D 80% of the time.</p>

<p>However! If you are just starting out, I'd strongly recommend you buy a Rebel series camera with a kit lens instead. If you've never used a digital SLR, the picture quality of a Rebel will blow you away, and it will be a lot easier to learn to use than would be a 5D or 7D. If, after a year, you're still happy with your camera, then I just saved you a lot of money. If, after a year, you realize you're not all that into photography, then I just saved you a lot of money. And if, after a year, you're dying to upgrade to a more expensive camera (that's what happened to me), you can sell your Rebel on eBay and make another new photographer happy.</p>

<p>My .02.</p>

[brett_w.]

<p>If you're just starting out look at the new Canon T2i - same sensor as the 7D but leaves more in the budget for nice glass. </p>

<p> </p>

[bueh]

<p>I use fast primes almost exclusively. The EF <strong><a href="../photodb/folder?folder_id=783085">50mm</a></strong> f/1.4 USM, EF 100mm f/2 USM and EF 200mm f/2.8 L USM all are excellent portrait lenses (on both full-frame and APS-C), but I probably use the 50mm the most due to the close and convenient working range (you can chat with your subject and don't have to shout).</p>

<p>These primes are plentiful and not-that-expensive on the used market. Add a 20mm (or 24mm) prime and you will be set for wide angle landscape, too. Image quality is better than with the zooms, the lenses weight less and often are a lot faster. The only drawback of this setup is that none of these lenses has <abbr title="Image Stabilization">IS</abbr>.</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>For the 5D the 28-75 Tamron f/2.8, the 7D the Tamron 17-50 f/2.8, can spend a lot more money and get equivalent Canon lens you may get slightly better results. For portraits a prime lens normally works better, at least head shots with nice blurry background. As to the 24-105L, I personally prefer the 24-70L on my full frame. Street shooting old film camera or my G11, don't bring attention to one self. The 5D came with the 24-105L as a kit, you may be able to find that combination used.</p>

[peter_j2]

<p><strong>Karena:</strong> Do you prefer to zoom with the lens or with your legs? </p>

[mike_stemberg]

<blockquote>

<p>...and have narrowed it down to the 7D and the older 5D (which i'd get 2ndhand and have more money to invest in lenses).</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Without asking you too many additional questions about how much you want to spend in the future, your preferences to FF or not, your preferred shooting style etc... I'd go for the option to spend more in lenses. You also have an excellent suggestion above which I also recommend, to look at the <a href="http://www.dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS550D/">(link): Canon EOS 550D (Rebel T2i / Kiss X4 Digital) </a>Preview carefully.</p>

[benbangerter]

<p><strong>Peter J's </strong>comment makes no sense. "Zooming," or changing lens focal length, assuming the camera position is fixed, changes the cropping of a scene. "Zooming with your feet," or moving closer to or further from your subject changes perspective. They are separate and independent considerations in composing a photograph.</p>

[jim_larson1]

<p>5D kit: 16-35/2.8 or 17-40/4L; 24-105/4L; 70-200/4L-IS</p>

<p>7D kit: 10-22/EF-S;24-105/4l; 70-200/4L-IS.</p>

<p>I don't know what you shoot. For a *first* lens the 24-105/4L is a great starter lens. You can add others down the road. If you are big into portraits. . . .the fast primes are killer (50/1.4;84/1.8 etc). If you actually make *money* from the camera, then consider the "L" primes.</p>

 

[alan_bryant1]

<p>Some hopefully useful lens recommendations can be found at</p>

<p>http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-Lenses/Canon-General-Purpose-Lens.aspx</p>

<p>You might consider a Rebel or at 40D/50D for a starter camera. Even the cheapest DSLRs are good cameras capable of excellent photography.</p>

[bueh]

<p>Ben is spot-on. "Zooming" not only changes the angle-of-view, but also the perspective (rendering of spatial relations), which is a major factor in aesthetics and the look-and-feel of the final image. It should not be regarded lightly. And that is why I use primes...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>With prime lenses you need to use your head more. Pre-visualize the scene, mount the right lens, move to the right position and only then, take the shot. Thus you become more involved in the picture taking procedure. Consequently, the chances of getting the shot you planned go higher.<br />-- <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00KqXQ"><strong>Y. Peled</strong></a></p>

</blockquote>

[bonyari]

<p>Karena, I think it will be helpful for people to help you if you tell us a little bit about yourself. I mean more along the line of - have you done photography before? If you're new to photography, suggestions are very different than the case that you're not. If you've been shooting films, and now switch to digital, what have you been shooting? <br>

Assuming that you're new to photography, I second Manuel's suggestion on getting the 7D and Tamron 17-50mm. Actually, if you're really new, I'd say go for a Rebel camera and the Tamron 17-50. There is no need to get a brand new T2i, a second-hand XTi, T1i of the Rebel line are great start. Save your money to invest in other accessories - such as a decent flash, a tripod, a camera bag. These items can add to $3-500. <br>

If you really want to jump the gun and start with a 5D, then I would suggest the Tamron 28-75. I personally used it and it's a great lens. It is sharp (sharper than 24-70) though the bokeh is not as nice as the 24-70, and it is light & cheap. <br>

Another lens you might want to consider adding to your bag (regardless it being Rebel, 7D, or 5D) is the 50mm f/1.8II. It is cheap, but really awesome lens. <br>

Lastly, once you get a system, regardless what it is, be patient in developing your technique & skills (of course, this is assuming you're new to photography). If your image comes out soft or not impressive, do not immediately blame the camera system or the lens. Learn the following:<br>

1) Composition<br>

2) Lighting<br>

3) Photoshop Editing (or whatever software that you choose). For me, Photoshop Elements has all the things I need as an amateur.</p>

<p>Have fun.</p>

[philip_wilson]

<p>Tuan makes a good point - what are you trying to shoot and what is your background. A standard zoom is the best all around lens - I would suggest either the 24-70 f2.8 or 24-105 F4 if you go with canon but both are expensive. I personally prefer the 24-70 but have owned both and they are both good. The 24-105 has IS but the the 24-70 is a stop faster with all the benefits this brings. On my 5DII I use the 24-70 a lot but on the 7D I rarely use it as the 1.6x factor makes it a less versatile range. On the 7D I mainly use the 16-35 f2.8II but this is a very expensive lens - either the 17-40 F4 (which will also work on a full frame) or the 17-55 F2.8 (which only works on APS-C bodies) would be a good choice. I cannot comment on the 17-55 F2.8 as I have not owned it but it has a good reputation. For portraits the classic range is 85mm to 105mm (i.e. about 50mm to 65mm on the 7D). With this in mind you can just get the 50 F1.8 or 50 F1.4 for the 7D or the 85 F1.8 or 100 f2 for the 5D. Landscape is usually a wide angle lens and several options exist here but most are expensive - cheapest options include 10-22 for the 7D or 17-40 for the 5D.<br>

I do only have one non Canon lenses these days after a bad experience with a Sigma 14mm f3.5 a few years ago. The one I have is the Sigma 8mm F3.5 which works well and is a unique lens. In general you can save a lot of money buying a non Canon lens but the resale value will also be a lot less. Since I tend to keep lenses for ever (or sell them for about what I paid) I have taken to only buying top quality Canon glass. If you cannot afford this approach then Tamron, Tokina and Sigma all offer good products at lower prices.<br>

In terms of bodies I would probably suggest the 7D over the old 5D (although I prefer my 5D II top my 7D) simply because it is newer, has a better screen and menu layout, a modern AF and will have similar image quality. If you want to shoot low ISO and wide angle then the 5D may make the better choice. Either way both are good cameras. Remember spend the money on glass more than on the body as the glass last longer.</p>

[DickArnold]

It is interesting the number of people who recommend the lenses or bodies they own rather than try to answer, in very simple terms, the OP's question.

I do not own a 7D but recommend it because it is the most advanced of the two. I own a 5D. IMO you have to be pretty experienced to even see the difference between full and crop frames. For starters, I would just recommend a 150 dollar Canon 18-55 3.5-5.6 IS lens. I teach beginning photography and if you were my student Karena you could begin with enough basics to enable you to understand enough to begin shooting and learning about the camera through that rather good but inexpensive lens. You then could learn enough to make your own decision for a more expensive lens later on. That lens is APS-c which will give you capability through the normal range of human vision on the 7D. People who have come to my classes usually do not know enough to understand the basic manual. Karena, that's where I think you ought start. I have had people with expensive cameras in my classes who were in the same predicament. I actually use an XTi and the 18-55 and a point and shoot to show what great pictures you can get from relatively inexpensive gear. Incidentally my class are hands on from day one. I sneak in some theory but I allow and encourage everyone, no matter what their gear, to play with their gear while I am talking. I also let questions determine the rate I deliver information. I don't want to leave anyone behind.

[david carver]

<p>I have a 5D II and I have the 24-105mm lens and I love it. It is sharp and the IS is incredible. I am very impressed with the lens. I also have a cheap 50mm and am looking at the 85mm or 100mm f/2 prime. I would go with the full frame --- if nothing else the viewfinder is in my opinion a lot nicer than the crop cameras.</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>With all due respect Dick, the person mentioned two bodies and recommended lens. I happen to have both cameras and the 24-105L, 24-70L, 17-50 Tamron, 28-75 Tamron, and the 24-70 f/2.8 Sigma, I have also owned the 18-55 3.5-5.6 IS Canon lens, I sold it after two outing as it was soft and the aperture does not lend itself well to low light situations which occur fairly often. Great pictures can be taken with point and shoots, I use my G11 most of all my cameras as it lives with me for the most part, it replaced a G9. In fact a G11 or similar type camera can make a great camera for a photography class.</p>

[winniv]

<p>In all this advise, the 7D with the excellent and fun 15-85mm, the best equivalent to the 5D with 24-105mm, should not be amiss. <br />They are both great sets and will provide you with lots of photographing pleasure. For me, the 15-85mm is 80% on my camera. Icw the 70-200, it completes my set, although I have a few other lenses for specific purposes.</p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>I would have to say the 5D is your better camera. Since you are looking for a camera that is good for portrait and landscapes. Full frame gives you what you want. Just in DOF, it's worth it getting the 5D. Make no mistake I love my 7D for faster action situation but for portraits Full frame and 70-200 2.8 IS is the bomb. v/r Buffdr</p>

[les]

<p>Bueh - Ben may be spot on, but you are not...unless I misunderstood you post.<br>

Zooming (changing focal length on a zoom lens) changes the angle of view - but does zilch to the perspective and "spacial relations". If you shoot the same fixed subject from the same position - a 35mm lens will give you exactly the same perspective as 200mm lens. The FOV will be different, but the perspective remains the same...</p>

[mendel_leisk]

<p>No offense Denis, but your <em>response</em> doesn't make any sense to me. I love using my 5D with a Canon 50mm f1.4 and 35mm f2.0, guess I just don't know any better ;)</p>

[markonestudios]

Both are fine cameras. It boils down to what you reckon your long-term goals are, photographically speaking. When I started out with digital, I had a Rebel XTi (400D), and this served me extremely well. I always knew though, that I would move to full-frame, because I had started my photography journey with film SLRs. So whatever lenses I purchased had that in mind, that they would be used for full-frame cameras one day.

<p>Back to your question. You say you have narrowed down your choices to 7D and 5D1. This would indicate you did some research. What were the driving factors that led you to this final list? I ask because that will help define what your inherent goals are. That would in turn help define the path to that goal, equipment-wise. I daresay the longer-term investment is glass. Bodies will come and go, but will do so faster than lenses. I reckon you would be fine with a T1i/T2i and then invest in good lenses. I'd say something in the range of 17-xx or 18-xx would stand you in good stead with such a body (crop sensor). Maybe Canon's 17-40L (I have one and it was my main lens on my XTi). It can be used on Full-frame whcich was why I got it. There are a number of crop-sensor specific ones. Starting with Canon's 18-55 IS. A good lens indeed, and not too expensive. Then there is the pricier 17-55IS. Also, the tamron 17-50 has received good reviews and is well worth considering. Pick one of those and shoot with it for a while to figure out where your photography is heading. I would perhaps add a 50mm f/1.8 prime. This is very good for portraits. Majority of my more recent portraits are done with that lens on either my 400D or 5D2. Shooting with this to start with should help you define whether you then want to go wider or longer.

<p>Remember (depending on where in the world you are) there is the option of renting both lenses as well as bodies. I would encourage you to do so as you grow and progress, especially before you decide which lenses next.

<p>You would also do well to have a look at this forum: http://www.photo.net/beginner-photography-questions-forum/

[ulrich_brandl]

<p>There was so much written, but few answers really match the original question. If landscapes and portraits are your main subjects it is best to combine a wideangle zoom (useful for landscape, dramatic skies, and portraits with much environment) with a short telephoto prime (portraits with blurred background, landscape detail). <br>

It is difficult to say which camera is the better choice. I assume you have reasons to exclude other camera models. The 7D is technically more advanced - but some advantages apply more for sports and action photographers. The 5D gives more options for backgrund blur and is a highly regarded camera for landscape shots.<br>

For the 5D I would recommend a f:4 17-40L wideangle zoom plus a 1.8/85mm short tele.<br>

An almost equivalent lens combo for the 7 D is a EF-S 10-22mm Zoom and a 1.4/50mm lens.<br>

If you are completely new th DSLR photography it is better to think twice about the camera choice and follow one of the other suggestions.</p>