Watch/Jewelry lighting equipment

[tzvih]

<p>With regard to lighting, I am currently working with one AB800, an AB soft box and a reflector. I understand that I will need additional lighting/light modifiers to even get close to professional shots, particularly of watches and jewelry.<br>

I just need some advice regarding what should be my next purchase. LED lights? Another light for the background etc.<br>

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.</p>

[chad_hoelzel1]

<p>Not sure if LED lights would at all come close to the light output of your AB800. Might need one more strobe light and then work on technique. Sure you could probably find a book on lighting for that subject matter.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I'd get one more AB800 (so that you can predictably adjust the ratios between them, and rely on their modeling lights to show you what's really going on). Then it's all about the look you're after. Are we talking about the ol' high-key "floating on white" look, or are these supposed to be more atmospheric shots? Whether and how to light a backdrop, and how many grip widgets you'll need to hold fingers, flags, and gobos to take control of reflections (negative and positive) will depens a lot on the results you have in mind.<br /><br />And, no, those LED lights aren't going to be a good mix. Product shots of small shiny things is hard, tedious, delicate, precise, but (for some people) very gratifying work. But it's all about manipulating that light. And it's very grip-gear intensive. But you can get a lot done with bits and pieces of black and white foam core, hanger wire and duct tape - even with just a single light source. You'll have much better luck with more than one, of course. If you provide links to a few shots that show the sort of look you're after, you'll get much better advice.<br /><br />I probably don't need to say it, but read (twice!), <em>Light: Science and Magic</em> so that you can train yourself to look at what's reflected in those shiny surfaces, and anticipate what you'll have to rig up to create the reflections you want, and what focal lengths and working distances will help you.</p>

[tzvih]

<p>Matt-<br>

I would assume the second strobe would need a soft box as well, please confirm.<br>

Regarding the look I'm after, I like the sculpted look rather than the basic floating on white look. However, I will probably need to do a little bit of both.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>The second light (and even the first, for that matter) may not need a softbox at all. You might want a honeycomb insert to allow it to create a small puddle of light ... you might want barn doors so that you can create some crisp but controlled rim lighting while your other strobe shoots through a large scrim to provide uninterrupted white highlights. You get the idea. The modifiers depend entirely on the look you're after. Softboxes wrap light around a subject when used from up close, but when used from farther away, they become a smaller light source, and produce different shadows.<br /><br />Try to find some specifc images to link to, because every last jewelry product shot is going to have been the result of a very different combination of lights and modifiers.</p>

[tzvih]

<p>http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.uncrate.com/men/images/2009/03/breitling-chronomat-b01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.uncrate.com/men/style/watches/breitling-chronomat-b01/&usg=__fDs1n20E34vjrq7OwK558spoaY0=&h=386&w=470&sz=47&hl=en&start=10&itbs=1&tbnid=TWB6o2PWS58eiM:&tbnh=106&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbreitling%26hl%3Den%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1</p>

[tzvih]

<p>That is the sculpted look I am after.<br>

Then there is the basic web marketing photo-</p>

<p>http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://breitlingreplicawatches.org/images/breitling-replica.jpg&imgrefurl=http://breitlingreplicawatches.org/&usg=__2LCGgvFT8KtrhOCSY9SA3GVp9wE=&h=467&w=350&sz=57&hl=en&start=20&itbs=1&tbnid=2GuRD0mPKzwq1M:&tbnh=128&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbreitling%26start%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26gbv%3D2%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1</p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>The first watch shot requires substantial attention to lighting and reflection. The second one is lit very flat and doesn't produce any "drama" the second one is easy, the first one not so much.</p>

<p>Like Matt and I have said before get a copy of "Light - Science & Magic" and learn how to light reflective objects.</p>

<p><Chas><br /></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Tzvi: I happened to have a couple of strobes set up to light a small object (not a fancy watch, but you'll get the idea). Here's a shot of the set, though I'm not done rigging things up. What you'll notice is:<br /><br />1) No softboxes, in this particular case. Just honeycombs stuck into the reflectors to constrain the light.<br /><br />2) Various little things to reflect a small patch of light, or block a small patch of light.<br /><br />3) All sorts of stands, booms, and gripping widgets to get the lights and modifiers where I want them.</p><div></div>

[Matt Laur]

<p>And then a quick and dirty shot using only the strobes for light. Just like with that watch shot you linked to, used a quick bit of post production work to darken the blacks around the object.</p><div></div>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>Nice setup shot and nice picture Matt. What is that gooseneck clamp you're using to hold the gobo?</p>

<p>Thanks,</p>

<p><Chas></p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>Tzvi, Matt's setup shot shows what he means by "grip intensive" Grip equipment like stands, clamps, reflectors, flags, gobos, and the like are extremely important in small product photography.</p>

<p>When you are taking pictures of products like watches and jewelry, you must excercise total control over ever highlight, shadow, and reflection in your photograph. And all these small gadgets are almost as important as the lights themselves.</p>

<p>Matt's setup picture shows two strobes with 20deg honeycomb grids, two boom arms (on stands), a gooseneck clamp, two different types of spring clamps, two different reflectors, and a gobo. This is typical of a small product setup. For some ideas of larger product setups, check out my blog at www.charlesLwebster.com/blog where I talk about shooting guitars and similar stringed instruments. I provide similar setup pictures there also.</p>

<p><Chas><br /></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I use all sorts of crazy contraptions, Charles, but I've been slowly migrating towards proper grip equipment, almost always from Manfrotto and their sister brand, Avenger. <br /><br />What you're barely seeing in that shot, holding the gobo, is a collection of various parts. It's the always useful Manfrotto Super Clamp, holding the assembly to the vertical riser on a c-stand. Snapped into the Super Clamp is the Manfrotto 237HD Heavy-Duty Flex Arm gooseneck - this is the one fitted specifically with the hex stud that mates to the Super Clamp.<br /><br />The other end of that flex arm terminates in a standard short stud which is also has a 1/4-20 male thread on it. Screwed onto <em>that</em> is a simple stud - the E300 - which has a female 1/4-20 socket, and onto which you can mount most anything that likes a 5/8 stud ... like, the Avenger D200 grip head. That grip head looks too heavy for the gooseneck, but it's not. The D200 can do all sorts of things, including grabbing onto the brass shaft of the gobo. The gobo is one of the variety that are included in the Avenger I1550 finger/dot kit, but you'll end up making your own varieties before you know it.</p><div></div>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Here's the flex arm mounted into the Super Clamp, with the 5/8 stud attached to the other end of the arm.</p><div></div>

[Matt Laur]

<p>And here's the D200 grip head, attached to the stud, with the gobo's brass mounting shaft clamped into the grip head.</p><div></div>

[Matt Laur]

<p>In the set shot earlier in the thread, you could just make out a white reflector in the left margin of the shot. That one's being held by a small flex arm, which is clamped into the end of an Avenger D301 Articulated Arm ... and that arm is the one rigged to snap into a Super Clamp. Again, that's hanging off of another c-stand at camera left.</p><div></div>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>Hmmm, I think I need one of those articulated arms ;-)</p>

<p>Avenger D200 gripheads are very popular in my studio, they hold lots of stuff.</p>

<p><Chas></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>It's a great tool, that arm. The business end of it (that socket) is rigged for smaller flag/gobo-style accerrories, as well as the various foam-core-holding widgets. It's making me happy, though, since it has good reach and locks down well. It also bends in some about-face sorts of ways that a gooseneck can't, which can be good with oddly-shaped items or to avoid shadows/reflections in awkward situations.</p>

[henryp]

<p>I think Matt's setup is remarkable, but it is possible to get very acceptable results for subjects of this sort by using a light tent. They're also called cocoons or light sheds.<br>

<img src="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/images150x150/301878.jpg" alt="" width="150" height="150" /><br>

Henry Posner<br /> <strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>I hope, Henry, you don't mean "remarkable" in that "Matt's actually a bit insane" sort of way. :-)<br /><br />I like having the right tools for the job. Product shooting in a tent, for me, is just so ... blah. Even if you use the lights outside the tent to creatively introduce a bit of a not-1:1-ratio sculpting, it's hard to achieve the very important goal of including more than one reflection <em>type</em> on the product (like a nice soft gradient on some surfaces, and a crisp bit of edge-defining rim lighting on another). <br /><br />It really does come down to whether you're going for sexy, vs. informative. Light tents make it easy to get well-exposed, non-fussy informative lighting in a consistent, quick way. The moment you want the more theatrical lighting, it's <em>hugely</em> more work and more gear involved, no question. It's not a surprise that a lot of people opt for the more relaxed, less dramatic in-the-cloud look when they simply want to present an easy to look at product image.<br /><br />Unfortunately, there's almost no way to get into the more dramatic look without going all the way. Doesn't mean you have to buy a lot of grip gear, since you can home-brew a lot of that stuff on the cheap. But if you're going to do it regularly, or need to be able to do it in a hurry, there's no substitute for beginning to collect the right tools. <br /><br />The B&H web site, incidentally, is a treasure trove of the right tools! But for people who are new to grip equipment, it can be a little overwhelming. You guys might think about a page or two explaining the basics and the standards, so that people won't be scared off by all of that crazy grip jargon ("Quick, Best Boy, grab me a junior-to-baby reciever so we can mount a fixed stand-off on this low-boy!"). Heh. Love that stuff.</p>

[Charles_Webster]

<p>I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I seriously doubt that you could replicate Matt's photo of the caliper in a tent. Notice the highlight band across the bow/spring at the top. That's going to be a solid white area in a tent, because there are no dark areas to reflect.</p>

<p>Yes, you can pin/clip pieces of black wrap or paper to the inside of a tent and get close, but tents are better for thing like Tzvi's 2nd example, which is flat-lit with no shadows. That sort of work is required for eBay where any shadow is assumed to be hiding a defect or scratch in the merchandise.</p>

<p>No disrespect meant to Harry or those who need/use tents for their intended purpose; flat featureless lighting, but you can't do high-end looking watch pictures such as Tzvi wants in a tent.</p>

<p>I agree w/ Matt that most of those gadgets can be home made. Most of mine are. But I also agree with "the right tool for the job makes good results easier"</p>

<p><Chas><br /></p>

[henryp]

<blockquote>

<p>I don't mean to be disagreeable, but I seriously doubt that you could replicate Matt's photo of the caliper in a tent.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree and if my earlier post was open to misinterpretation I am sorry. I certainly agree a watch lit for a Tourneau ad will differ substantially from one lit for an eBay auction. As Matt noted, "It really does come down to whether you're going for sexy, vs. informative. Light tents make it easy to get well-exposed, non-fussy informative lighting in a consistent, quick way."</p>

<p>I agree and there's room for both. One thing I wanted to convey is I often see folks like Matt, who really know the ins and outs, describe relatively sophisticated options to less experienced people who are somewhat daunted. For someone seeking that heightened level of sophistication I'm right there with you and Matt, but I wouldn't want to deter a newbie by overwhelming him or her.</p>

<p>Henry Posner<br /> <strong>B&H Photo-Video</strong></p>

 

[Charles_Webster]

<blockquote>

<p>I agree and there's room for both. One thing I wanted to convey is I often see folks like Matt, who really know the ins and outs, describe relatively sophisticated options to less experienced people who are somewhat daunted. For someone seeking that heightened level of sophistication I'm right there with you and Matt, but I wouldn't want to deter a newbie by overwhelming him or her.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree, Henry, but one of the problems with jewelry photography is that there really isn't a cheap and easy to do it and get the results people are accustomed to seeing every day in the magazines. As for deterring newcomers, perhaps they should be deterred from some projects until they do some homework and reading. Thus, my insistance in every thread that newcomers buy and read "Light - Magic & Science"</p>

<p>Good quality jewelry photography IS daunting, there's no escaping it.</p>

<p><Chas></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>The <em>last</em> thing<em> </em>I want to do is deter newbies. But I do want to make sure that nobody thinks they're going to produce magazine-ad-quality jewelry shots with $100 worth of equipment. Those are just unrealistic expectations, and it's unfair for those people to agree to take on certain tasks (for other people, who will be paying them) without knowing how it all works, or doesn't work.<br /><br />When it's a project for yourself, and you have the time to try things, re-evaluate, and decide if you need to regroup and re-equip later, then I'm all for it. There's a reason I recommend foam core, wire hangers, duct tape and everything else you can do on the cheap, if you're just learning. But when people say, "I've been hired to ..." and they mention jewelry in the same question, then it seems only fair to go right for the reality check, to help head off real friction between the photographer and the customer (or hundreds of lost, uncompensated hours).<br /><br />Charles is right: Reading L-S-M is the way to go. Because it will get a photographer thinking about the reality of the light. How they want to tackle that problem, and with what level of sophistication is totally up to them. But I do feel an obligation to point out that the laws of physics don't care what we think of them! A reflection is a reflection. <br /><br />From a marketing point of view, I think it would be <em>great</em> for a company (Henry?) to look at ways to provide a jewelry-shooting kit that recognizes the blah-ness of the typical light tent, but which gets around the big jump up to pro grip gear. Some sort of bundle that includes a copy of L-S-M, some pre-cut foam core flags and gobos, and some inexpensive ways for people to rig up a little table-top set. I think something like that would really sell (note to self!). There are <em>so</em> many jewelry artists and photographer buddies out there who need to produce better-than-light-tent shots, but who (as Henry has observed) sure don't want to make the leap into creating a full-on product shooting rig.</p>