WANTED: Wedding/Family Gathering Advice! Very Desperate!

[jen_farmer]

<p>

 

<p>I am posting this message out of pure desperation and would greatly APPRECIATE any and all advice, tips, tricks, settings, lens help/info, camera help/info, etc... Ok, here is my uncomfortable situation:</p>

<p>As a 2009 Christmas gift, my husband bought me a Canon Rebel XSi as a means of exploring my long time interest in photography and to capture our adventures in marriage! We live in a town on the ocean in northern WA state, so my outdoor "photography legs" haven't really gotten a good stretch, yet! Exactly a week ago, I was approached by my husband's uncle and his fiance about taking pictures at their June 25, 2010 wedding, at a family residence on a lake in Idaho. Apparently, they caught wind of my gift and are under the impression that it will enable me to shoot the quality of photos their looking for. <em>Obviously</em>, I explained how I wouldn't feel comfortable doing so... for all the <em>obvious</em> reasons! They said they aren't expecting the type of photos you would normally pay $1000's for, and simply put, they were planning on asking a family member or friend to take them anyway. Personally, wedding photos were important to me, even though they aren't paying me, I would love to try and surpass their low (more like shallow) expectations!</p>

<p><strong>The particulars:</strong> The wedding starts at 2 in the afternoon and the average temperature in late June is about 80 deg., cloudless sky, but is can get breezy so close to the lake. The photo below was taken at the exact location this wedding will be. This is the best picture I could find of where the ceremony is taking place and what the setting will relatively look like.</p>

<p><strong>What I'm working with:</strong> Canon Rebel XSi, an EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS lens, an EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS lens, tripod, and some miscellaneous odds and ends. I want to avoid buying anything, as I wanted a decent camera for taking simple photos of my husband and I, not for taking professional pro bono wedding photos.</p>

<p>To sum it up, tell me what I need to do and explain how to do it, and I'll do it! Easier said, than done... I'm beginning to understand.</p>

 

</p>

[tangibleimages]

<p>I'm sure others will chime in trying to dissuade you, but if you and they are truly set on your taking these photos I recommend buying 2 things. (I'd recommend a lot more, but it sounds like you are on a tight budget and furthermore buying things you aren't familiar with the use of is a risky proposition).<br>

1) Photography course run through a community college. This will help not just your photography at the wedding, but also your photography in general.<br>

2) Flash. Absolutely needed for outdoor photography of people in sunlight, and very very useful (if allowed) indoors.<br>

3) RENT another camera for during the wedding. You don't want to be stuck if your camera dies. I'm assuming you have extra batteries and cards for your current camera.</p>

<p>Between now and August, take your camera EVERYWHERE. Shoot people indoors, outside, at night, in cars, in cafes, shoot the camera when you're watching TV, shoot it when you get up and when you go to bed. Basically get so used to the camera that you can set the important things with your eyes closed, and so used to taking GOOD photos in any situation that you can do it under pressure without thinking. During this time get used to politely "bossing" people around in order to take photos of them. You MUST take charge and be comfortable telling people how to pose for formal photos.</p>

<p>I'm not sure you're going to be able to learn even a fraction of the skills necessary to shoot a wedding by reading online forums or books, but here are some things to keep in mind:</p>

<ol>

<li>Discuss with bride and groom the style of photography</li>

<li>Have bride and groom make a list of "must have" shots. Also have them draw up a schedule of coverage needed.</li>

<li>Learn the location. Know where there will be shade, where it will be sunny, good photo places, etc.</li>

<li>Talk with the officiant about how they feel about photography in general, and also about flash.</li>

<li>Talk with the bride and groom about how they feel about photography during the ceremony.</li>

<li>Plan time with bride and groom to do formal shots before wedding ceremony if at all possible. It's a less stressed and less cramped-for-time part of the day than any point after. The catch is that the groom would see the bride prior to the ceremony. Many couples are okay with this, especially if you help them to realize that otherwise you'll be pulling them away from their reception and guests.</li>

<li>Find out what the bride and groom expect from you in terms of image delivery.</li>

<li>Dress formally and to blend in with the crowd. Wear COMFORTABLE shoes.</li>

<li>Smile no matter how stressed or frazzled you might feel.</li>

<li>Have an emergency kit of black and white thread, sewing needle, black and white duct tape, band-aids, aspirin, tylenol, etc. They come in handy not just for you but for anyone.</li>

</ol>

<p>I'm sure there's a ton of things I've forgotten to list. These are the mere few basics I can think of off the top of my head. If at all possible, see if you can assist a wedding photographer between now and then. I shot 5 weddings before shooting one on my own, and I was still nervous.</p>

<p>At any rate, if you decide to do this I wish you best of luck.</p>

[curt_kalkstein1]

<p>Jen has given good advice.<br>

Two other essential things: 1. Shoot in shade as much as possible (with flash); 2. Sign a contract. Specify exactly what they expect and what you expect, in terms of payment and in terms of tangible and subjective return: how much you'll get paid, how many pictures they'll get, and the level of professionalism they'll reflect.<br>

I've seen many posts here from people who've done exactly what you're about to do, but they want to know how to repair the relationship, or they lament how they shouldn't have done it, or that they did it without being clear on expectations.<br>

Curt (photocurt.com)</p>

 

[rayt]

<p>I would personally not rent anything. A wedding is not the time to be experimenting with equipment for which you are unfamiliar. You also do not want to try doing things with your equipment for which you are not familiar.</p>

<p>You have explained your limitations and the couple is still OK with those limits. If they still want you to do the images, go right ahead.</p>

<p>In your case I would put the camera on that dreaded Program option (which in most cases is actually quite good) and go for it. Use the flash while keeping people in the shade if possible.</p>

<p>But the most important piece of advice I can provide is for you to have fun. Enjoy yourself. Be creative in you image selection. Keep the stress level low otherwise you fret about stuff and will forget something.</p>

[richardsnow]

<blockquote>

<p>I would personally not rent anything. A wedding is not the time to be experimenting with equipment for which you are unfamiliar. You also do not want to try doing things with your equipment for which you are not familiar</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I agree with Ray, sort of...</p>

<blockquote>

<p>3) RENT another camera for during the wedding. You don't want to be stuck if your camera dies.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree with this statement as well...</p>

<p>Here's the solution: Rent another Rebel XSi if they're available. Make sure you can get your hands on it at least a night or two before the wedding. Set the cameras up EXACTLY the same...and that means ALL of your settings. </p>

<p>Put one lens on each camera and keep them on you at all times.<br>

Make sure you have plenty of batteries and a charger on hand. </p>

<p>In addition to a flash I would invest in a 50mm f/1.8 lens. I know there are gripes about Canon's version of this lens everywhere, BUT...it'll be better for low light (indoors) and portraits than your current selection of lenses. It's also only about a hundred bucks and every photographer should have at least one. It can fit in your pocket and will be your saving grace if one of your other lenses dies.</p>

<p>Hope this helps<br>

RS</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Suggest that you relax and have fun,...... it's also possible to over-think this stuff. They know that you're not a pro and have a sense that you can give them some nice shots. Shoot with what you know and avoid trying anything new at the wedding. If you want to practice some new techniques ahead of time then by all means go ahead. There's no need for a contract, you're not a pro and you're family....keep it that way. Having a backup Rebel dSLR is a good idea but there will likely be plenty of other cameras with the other guests. Welcome to P-net, Good luck.</p>

[buffdr_rasouliyan]

<p>Jake has given you some great info. Just to add a bit, I would rent a 17-55 2.8 IS and a 580 flash. Use the P mode on the camera and adjust the ISO to get your shot without flash. You need to understand how a camera meters to get better shots. Inside if you have a light color ceiling, bounce your flash straight up. The bigger you can get your light, the better. Good luck, v/r Buffdr</p>

[william-porter]

<p>I'm not sure what I think about the second camera issue. For anybody holding themselves out as a pro photographer, a second camera is absolutely necessary; failure to have backups of everything, in my view, constitutes professional malpractice. But you aren't holding yourself out as a pro. And I'm not sure that having a second camera won't, in your case, simply get in your way. So I'm a bit conflicted here. If you do rent a second camera, by all means, rent another XSi. And you could, I suppose, simply stow it somewhere as insurance. But of course the odds of your own camera dying on you are small. Not zero, but small. So you might have to ask yourself if you are willing to risk it.</p>

<p>I also agree that you should put your camera into program mode, put your flash into its auto or TTL mode, point the flash straight forward, and have fun.</p>

<p>Reading books could help you a little, ditto taking a class (in person or online). But studying for a one-off challenge like this can potentially confuse more than help. </p>

<p>So the thing I would add to what others have said is this: PRACTICE. PRACTICE.</p>

<p>You said the wedding will be held at a family residence on a lake. If the ceremony will be indoors, in low light, and if you aren't going to use flash, then you must practice using your camera at a higher ISO, slower shutter speeds. Do this in an environment as similar to the one you expect as possible. Practice at home when the light is the same as you expect for the wedding. You'll need help from models—my fifteen-year old daughter test models for me all the time (and I use a big plastic doll when my daughter isn't available). If the ceremony is going to be outdoors, then you need to think about where the sun's going to be and where you will position yourself. </p>

<p>Group shots are difficult. Practice this, too. </p>

<p>And practice shooting candids, with your flash. </p>

<p>If you don't practice, you won't be able to develop the confidence necessary to do this effectively. When I try something new, sometimes the results aren't very good. That's why I practice myself. If I'm going to get a bunch of lousy photos, I'd like them to be photos that don't matter. Knowledge of theory such as you will get from a book is valuable. But you aren't taking a written test here, you are being asked to do something practical. I think the right ratio might be about 4 parts practice for every 1 part of theory.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>Besides the settings, knowing more about weddings themselves will be valuable! I shot outdoors when I was new, and program saved me. Since I wanted to be a professional wedding photographer, however, I did learn that manual is better, and how to use all of the choices.<br>

The flash is a huge thing as well. The light is one of the major things that sets professionals apart!<br>

You need to get a shot list, and maybe test some things out at the rehearsal. I.E. distance from subject coming down the aisle, where to stand at formals. Good practice with actual subjects in the element, without pressure. Study your results before the big day. Go over things with the couple they want to make sure you do/get so there's no regret afterwards.<br>

My cousin asked me on her first wedding, what was the one thing she definitely needed to know? I said BRING A BACKUP EVERYTHING. She got a back-up camera thanks to that advice, and her camera....died. She got pictures with the backup. It's a must!</p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>P.S. You might want to have another talk about hiring a professional even for 3 hours. Some will come and do formals only, or a per-hour thing instead of all-day coverage. They can also help them do a real album. It's a compromise, ensures some professional quality, but also saves money and reduces pressure on you. It's their wedding day, and it's not something to be super-frugal about!</p>

[david_noceti]

<p>I agree with a lot of what's already up. At first I was going to add more pointers but then I realized that this isn't a job. You're not getting paid and it's not like they ever intended on paying anyone. As you said, they don't place a value on pictures like you do. So don't sweat it. If you want to do a little better, get a 430 ex ii. It's something that you can use in the future and it's not a huge investment. Practically, get a couple extra batteries for your camera and have plenty of memory cards or a place where you can have a laptop setup so that you can dump pictures.<br>

As far as backups go, you can rent the same camera that you have, that way there's no learning curve. Alternatively, I'd find one or two other family members with decent cameras and ask them to help out. There is safety in numbers, both in the number of pictures that you take and the number of people covering the event. Keep it low key, and don't stress. It sounds like this is stressing you out a little and trying to figure out how to become a pro in a few months is only going to stress you out more. Show up, snap shots, have fun.</p>

[alex_dc]

<p>I think that the advice you've been given above may be good, but it does not take into account the real expectations that are being put upon you. Your equipment is one thing to think about, but there are bigger issues when talking about shooting for family. <br>

I shot a wedding for a family member several years ago. I had encouraged them to hire a pro (even sent them suggestions on who to hire), but they didn't. I only found this out when I showed up for the 'big day' that there was no pro there. That said, I am a professional photographer by trade, had cameras with me, and it was made known that I was expected to be shooting. I had planned on taking some fun pix as a gift, not working the whole day.<br>

While the photos were very good, the issues that arose both during the wedding and after made me feel taken advantage of. In addition, it has pretty much ruined the relationship that I have with them. They expected all the photos for nothing (being family right?), and I was not able to enjoy the wedding (which was in another state), because I was working! The comparison I often make is this: if your husband had given you a nice expensive set of pots and pans for Christmas would the couple have the audacity to ask you to cater the wedding too?<br>

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point. You need to decide if you want to be a guest or a photographer at this wedding. You can't be both and expect good results, plus you run the risk of potential issues down the line if they're truly not happy with the final product whether it be the quality, turn around time, posing or number of photo.<br>

An idea that I've used since the wedding I spoke of above, is to offer to pay for a pro as a gift, and take some fun pictures as a guest so that there is no pressure on you.</p>

[jen_farmer]

<p>Wow! Thank you to all for the supportive advice! I got married a little over a year ago and we hired a professional, so all of those must-have's, wish-we-would-of, waste of time photos are still very, very fresh in my mind. </p>

<p>I have talked with the couple a lot and they honestly have NO expectations. They don't even care if I use my new camera. They are a very relaxed, easy-going, older couple, that believe their wedding picture quality isn't what's important to them, they just want it photographed! </p>

<p>I am <em>VERY interested</em> in buying a flash! I was actually sold on the idea before I posted my original post. The wedding will be 100% outdoors, on a real green, grassy, waterfront acre, with flowers set up all around the landscape. The property is lined with tall trees that help shade the property from above, however I do see the reflection of the lake being a tricky element. Any ideas?<br>

I did get a list of all the photos they want taken, and nothing seems too outrageous. I understand the concept of how the sun casts shadows, especially at high noon, when I'll start snapping away! There very-short ceremony will be directly in front of the lake, does that pose any points of concern? Also, are group shots best taken away from water? They will be taken outdoors, so what do you see making the best, ideal setting for their background landscape? Trees.. flowers.. their green covered arbor in front of the lake? </p><div></div>

[picturesque]

<p>I agree with the people who take a more relaxed attitude about your situation. It isn't as if you are expected to shoot like a professional wedding photographer, so I'd say no contracts, no expectations, and just do the best you can while enjoying yourself as well.</p>

<p>I understand your wanting to do well for your own sake, though, and that being the case, I second the purchase of an external flash. Back-ups--bring your point and shoot or check to make sure others are bringing cameras.</p>

<p>I don't think even a month or two is enough to identify and absorb the specific knowledge you might need to shoot at a more advanced level. I would recommend that you use Program mode, use ISO 100 outside (particularly with bright sun) and ISO 400 or 800 inside. Don't forget to change the ISO when you walk from inside to outside and vice versa. Use One Shot focusing (not AI Servo or AI Focus). Use the center focus point/focus recompose, and give the focus point a contrasty target. Stay away from edges of subjects or you will get some backfocusing. Do not use AV or aperture priority inside with flash. It will set too slow shutter speeds.</p>

<p>Now this is the part you need to study and experiment with. Learn how to compensate your ambient exposure and your flash exposure and why. These are two separate controls. Read your manuals. Learn how to read a histogram and what to do to change the histogram.</p>

<p>The image you show has an ideal situation for bright sun--sunlight on the backs of people, with flash filling their shadow sides. No light from the sun entering the lens, causing flare. (Be sure to use your lens hoods).</p>

<p>Most cameras will want to 'give' you an in between exposure for contrasty situations, such as bright sun and shade, meaning that highlights are generally blown. What you want to do is control/comp the ambient metering so the highlights are not so blown (a little is generally OK if the sun isn't on important parts, such as the face) and control/comp the flash so that enough flash 'opens' up the shadow side.</p>

<p>Water does not cause problems unless the sun is glaring off the surface. The ceremony in front of the lake causes no special problems other than the bright sun/deep shadow problem. Formals are probably going to be desire in front of the arbor, as shown.</p>

<p>If you have any questions about this, feel free to ask.</p>

[jen_farmer]

<p>Also, any recommendations on a specific external flash for my camera model (Canon Rebel Xsi)? One that could be used inside and outside would be ideal. </p>

[john_h.1]

<blockquote>

<p>I have talked with the couple a lot and they honestly have NO expectations. They are a very relaxed, easy-going, older couple... ...that believe their wedding picture quality isn't what's important</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If they really had "NO expectations" and were "very relaxed and easy going", they wouldn't have persisted in having you shoot a wedding in blatant disregard to your explanations that you do not "feel comfortable" about it. You were unwilling to say no and allowed yourself to become pressured in to a situation of "pure desperation". If they could couldn't care less about photography, then just bring any ole' camera take the key shots and give them the results. If you don't want to find out the reaction or feel compelled to provide something better, Its time to consider other options to give these people what they want without punishing yourself any further.</p>

<p>Contact other family and friends about pitching in for a pro or a cheaper becoming pro shooter on craigslist or something. There's plenty around. If no one will help with funding, you could probably find one of those people who need portfolio samples to shoot for free. Then you can relax and have a good and stress free time.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>The comparison I often make is this: if your husband had given you a nice expensive set of pots and pans for Christmas would the couple have the audacity to ask you to cater the wedding too?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I was going top make this same exact comparison.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Canon 430EX for the flash.</p>

[nathan_b]

<p>Well, I'm going to chime in with a +1 on a few things above.<br>

Get that 50 f/1.8 - put it on your camera and shoot about a thousand images with it right away in everything from bright sunshine to nighttime.<br>

You need that flash. 430EX II is the one and only you should buy at your level. Outdoors in sunlight you will need it for fill, and at sunny 16 you will need high speed sync. Go shoot with that 50 at f/2.8 with the flash on and see what happens. Learn about your sync speed. It will save you some headaches.<br>

I have a thought on the second body (which you should have). Get a $200 point and shoot, and just use it randomly at the wide setting on auto. Don't try to focus and set up shots with it, just leave it hanging on a lanyard, turned on, and when the kids are running around ad people are mingling, point it at them and shoot. Use it for candid's outdoors. Make sure it is in flash-always-on mode. Put it away the minute you head indoors or the sun sets.<br>

Yeah...so I just suggested you spend $600 and you did not want to spend anything. You really need the flash. So if you can't do anything else, get that. Fire it straight-on outdoors, and point it at the ceiling with a sto-fen indoors.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Sorry, but I fail to see the need for a 50mm f1.8. On the camera it would be equivalent to 80mm. Outside against bright light that would put one way too far away for full flash, not HSS, to be of any good. Generally speaking, it would be nice to have for the $100 or so it costs, but for this wedding? I'm not convinced. Also, HSS has limited use against bright sun for anything but closer shots (maybe 6 feet and less).</p>

[richardsnow]

<p>I originally recommended the 50mm f/1.8 due to its size and relative usefulness. Knowing that the OP only has one lens, this is a safe backup along with an alternative for indoors. Nothing was mentioned about the reception, so I am assuming that there is an indoor contingency in case of rain. I would rather it be a 35mm f/2, but the price is 3.5x that of the 50mm.</p>

<p>I know the 50mm f/1.8 is not ideal, but nothing about the situation the OP is in is ideal.</p>

<p>Regards,<br>

RS</p>

[dave_bean1]

<p>That's a family residence? The arranged flowers in the background and the wooden arch indicate otherwise. I usually see that in the back of catering halls.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Richard--your thinking is sound. I still don't see a need for it in this case. Since Jen is not a professional wedding photographer and isn't even going to be performing as one on the day, a back up lens is not necessary. If any crucial piece of her gear goes down, it is the P&S camera she needs to go to.</p>

<p>Jen said the whole thing is to be outside, but in case of rain, I would say same gear plus flash would work nicely. We are all guessing, of course, but my estimation of Jen's situation causes me to recommend she get as automated as possible while still understanding what to do to control exposure (not so much the theory, but what dials and buttons to work), and just shoot. When one hasn't photographed a wedding before, and hasn't been prepping for it for a while (more than 2 months anyway), one needs to react quickly. You don't have time to think about what to do before you need to do it.</p>

<p>Jen--I should add to what I wrote above--for the formals, if it is agreeable with the couple, even shade would be nicer and produce better results for you. Contrasty light, like you show, is harder to control with exposure and fill flash.</p>

[richardsnow]

<p>Nadine--I understand now why you would say that the 50mm is not necessary. Automating as much as possible is the best solution, and if Jen is going to have a P&S with her, that should suffice. </p>

<p>Jen--If you're going to use a flash, buy one now and get as much practice as possible with it. I agree that you should look at the 430EX II. It's big enough to give you good fill at a reasonable distance and is easy enough to use in AUTO/TTL.<br>

Good luck...I hope everything goes well for you</p>

<p>RS</p>

[paul_reklaitis]

<p>Practice make perfect. If you know the time of day and location, then take 1-2 friends and do a few dozen test shots, before the wedding. You will learn from your mistakes and you will be more confident on the day of the wedding. <br>

Notice the light. The sun is on the group's back and the camera is metering on and exposing for the faces. </p>

<p>On the other hand....</p>

<p>I had a close family member ask me to shoot their wedding. (I am a professional wedding photographer.) I declined, but found another photographer friend that did it for a few hundred dollars as a favor to me. It was the best decision I ever made, since I got to enjoy my families wedding with no stress. And they got good photos as well and were happy that I celebrated with them and was in the photos. <br>

Good luck with your decision!</p>

 

[gr]

<p>You have got many good advice, Jen. Do you see how the sky is washed out in the picture posted? That's quite common in these settings. A graduated neutral density filter comes in handy at times like this.<br>

Secondly, please do a Google search on Planet Neil and read the articles by Neil.<br />Given the film speed, aperture controls flash exposure, shutter speed controls ambient light (but keep yourself within sync speed). Off camera flash would be better but if that's not within budget then a foam card taped to the flash would work as a nice bouncing surface. Do a search for "a better bounce card" on Google.<br>

Good luck and have fun :-)</p>