the $500 wedding photographer, some actual evidence

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>Agree with Mike on the slide show, much faster to upload, people forget that not every one has the fastest internet possible. Make them wait and they will leave.</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>You know, it occurs to me that the two "sides" here are oddly the same, just at different stages of their business'.</p>

<p>That is to say, many here (myself included) began shooting for a friend or family member and charged little if anything. They became inspired and more serious about the craft and developed a portfolio by shooting for more friends/family or second shooting etc. Eventually, this group of photogs became "pro" in their own right and began charging for their work independently. Probably the equivalent of $500 or something, just to get started. Skip forward some time and these photogs now charge $2500 or whatever and are established pro's.</p>

<p>I think the disconnect in this day and age is that many "noobies" are coming in with the $500 shoot and burn mentality without really knowing what they are doing or getting into as a business. This group is perpetuated by the accessibility of digital kit and instant gratification style shooting. Many in this new group will and have dropped out after trying to get to the higher price point, but finding that hard to achieve. Some (a much smaller number most likely) make it to the higher price point and are very successful. Those are usually for good reason (talent, skill, commitment and some good fortune).</p>

<p>Whichever way someone starts in this business, its a tough business for sure, and it will separate the grownups from the kids as time passes in their pursuit. I have no problem with a $500 dollar shooter, especially if they are great at what they do. They may well soon be charging what I do and the field becomes level playing again. If however, they stink and try to up their rates, they will soon learn that it takes better than they offer to charge more. Better consistency, better talent, better planning, better marketing, better knowledge of business, better whatever, etc. etc. </p>

<p>I don't want to disparage or indeed discourage a "cheap" shooter, in fact bring it, the competition will drive the market and help to refine the quality of those who remain.</p>

<p>Rather than feeling bad about (making complaints about) the proliferation of cheap shooters, innovate if you are already established, improve and refine if you're not, shoot and burn if you like. In all cases, best of luck to you.</p>

[William Michael]

<p >Firstly . . .</p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em >“This website, Photo.net that is, comes out as very snobbish and seems like lots of mean, snobby "high end" photographers likes to sit around here chatting about "those low end" photographers.”</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >Then: </p>

<p > </p>

<p ><em>“I did not say <strong>everybody</strong> here was snobby.” . . . </em></p>

<p ><em> </em></p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Johanna:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >No you did not mention any particular member nor any group of members, instead, you planted one good all encompassing <strong ><em >king hit</em></strong> on “this website” </p>

<p ><strong ><em > </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong ><em >“This website” </em></strong>is <strong ><em >the members</em></strong>, and <strong ><em >their contributions – </em></strong>some of whom posted on this thread defending Shawn and who previously have helped you.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >You can play semantics and give later "explanations" all you like – but the bottom line is your opening barrage lambasting <em>“This website”</em> was in the same vein as the Original Post – just the inverse view, but just as scathing and using <em>"this website" </em>for purposes exaclty opposite to what its founders intented - and those actions are certainly NOT showing HUMILITY.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Honi soit qui mal y pense</p>

<p > <br>

WW</p>

[kevin_delson]

<p>Wow! What a topic.<br>

I no longer shoot weddings; however something really struck me as I read every single post.</p>

<p>I think it interesting those of us who shoot commercial, assignment or even on spec, <strong>NEVER</strong> see this.</p>

<p>I can see it now on CL,</p>

<p><em>"Will shoot any pics for your publication; $500 flat rate"</em> Hmmm. ;)</p>

[jackaldridge]

<p>It's not the cost of the fiddle that counts but the person holding the bow!<br>

We live in a free society...people can do what they want.<br>

Griping about it is fine too...but it doesn't change anything.<br>

If a photographer has time to moan and groan about his competitor's prices then in my humble opinion he or she has way too much time on their hands. Or maybe they just charge too darn much.....<br>

Here's an idea...the next time you see someone 'undercutting your price' offer to do a wedding free for someone who needs it. If you can't afford to do a 'pro bono' every now and then you're probably in the wrong business anyway, and the word of mouth advertising you'd get would more than make up for what you think you 'lost'...<br>

Besides...it would make you feel good!</p>

[shawn_brandow]

<p>Two responses on Craigslist in Albuquerque, NM, quite interesting:<br>

albuquerque.craigslist.org/evg/1618218190.html<br>

and<br>

albuquerque.craigslist.org/evg/1618667200.html</p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>My whole wedding was about $1200 (in '95) and my photographers were friends who did it for free. I was happy with the photos and my wedding. It seems like that's what was important (and of course the marriage which I'm also happy with :) ).</p>

[gr]

<p>@Mike Hollander: Agreed that in my previous post "most probably" was the not needed in "most probably less powerful than the laptop...". Definitely it was less powerful. No doubt about that. The point I was trying to make and failed miserably was : Lot more can be acheived with lot less technology if one prepares. Preparation is the key. That's all.</p>

[john schroeder]

<p>Would I wear a Tux? If the client wanted me in a Tux I would wear a Tux. At $500 for the wedding the client would have to pay the rental fee. My personal opinion is that the client gets what they pay for. If they pay for a tux they get a tux. If they don't pay for a tux then they get shirt, tie, and slacks. If they want flip-flops, shorts, and a Hawaiian shirt that's what they get. (I'd give a discount for that) </p>

[ilzesgimene]

<p>You can only charge what your client is willing to pay... and I happen to be reffered to people who cant pay $2000 for photography... when it comes to producing high quality pictures..... my clients are happy with what they get.... and I get further referals.... I give my clients option when it comes post processing (b&W, sepis, high contrast etc)... does this mean I take away bread from someone who shoots 2000 weddings... I dont think so... I'm just compeating in my price range market.... and I have no problem with that..... I dont think person should be judged by their ability to pay for "art" (which is not a necessity in this economy).... and photogrpaher by providing a service for a price that they are able to do their bussiness in..... and alot of us low price photographers will do wedding for love of capturing memories (even thou wedding photography may not be the easiest job out there)</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Johanna--you <strong>did</strong> kind of say everybody here is snobby. But you explained that--that's fine.</p>

<p>Re your post affecting me...not in the way you think. It affected me because I remember you and your previous posts. This is one reason I bring up your contradictory statement about being humble. I personally have no problem with $500 Craigslist photographers. I have no problem with any new wedding photographer. I do have a problem with new wedding photographers who close themselves off on the slightest perceived offense and aggressively fight back in kind. There is no need to fight back. Let naysayers have their say and go about your business. I am telling you this to help you, not argue with you. You will miss a great deal if you continue with this attitude.</p>

[dan_south]

<p>These are hard times and a lot of people are in dire financial straits. But people still get married even when the economy is bad.</p>

<p>If you derive your income from a part-time job at WallyMart you're not going to hire Señor Soy Muy-Importante to be your wedding photographer. You might resort to a "trainee" from CL. If El Señor Muy-Importante despises CL photographers so much, perhaps he should do some occasional <em>pro bono</em> work or offer a $500 wedding of his own from time to time (based on need, of course). Who knows, the word-of-mouth might even be good for Señor Muy-Importante's business. The desperate WallyMart clerk might have a wealthy cousin.</p>

[kimisphotos]

<p>haha. seriously?? I say way to go SHAWN!!!! everyone has to start somewhere. and i thought your pics weren't bad. </p>

<p>and to the DANIEL. of course there is going to be a 'difference' and i am positive the client is going to know the difference. they have a budget for a reason. and being a past bride.. budget of $6000, and yes $550 went to my photographer. got great pics! i have seen photographers charge thousands for crappy pics. so you don't ALWAYS get what you pay for.</p>

[jennifer_spencer]

<p><em>My intentions about photography is serious, and I admit that there are lots of people out there who just does it for "some extra cash" and are not interested in art at all.</em></p>

<p>Gees, Joanna, and you say we are snobby? That's not exactly a humble statement.</p>

<p>I want my clients to get the best photos I can make. Is that art? Probably not. Skill, yes. But if I like getting paid for it ("extra cash"), does that somehow make me less "serious"? </p>

<p>Maybe that's not what you meant?</p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>Personaly I did not agree with this thread when it was started. It seemed more like a witch hunt to me than anything else. But now Shawn has entered into the disscusion and has recieved some great advise from other members which should help him. The thread starter Daniel seems to be a good photographer. It is a shame he has not taken part in the rest of the discusion and constructively offered any advise to Shawn as to ways he could look to improve and move forward as a photographer. For me Bride and Groom portraits are important and they are also the pictures that the couple will likely put on display in their homes. This is an area that Shawn can work on. He can start going through wedding magazines and tearing out the pages of the portaits he likes and study how they are posed and lit. He can also turn to fashion mags or anywhere he may find insperation. Shawn you don't need a wedding to practise Bride and Groom portraits. You can make use of willing friends or family and practise on them. Street photography can also be useful practise for capturing candids at weddings. Hope some of this helps Shawn.</p>

[shawn_brandow]

<p>Thank you for your response and advice Stuart. Every little bit helps and practicing on friends sounds like a great idea. <br>

I personally have taken a lot of helpful hints from everyone here. I'm grateful for this post. <br>

My new slogan is "The $500 Photographer"<br>

:-)</p>

[mark_t5]

<p><em> I admit that there are lots of people out there who just does it for "some extra cash" and are not interested in art at all.</em></p>

<p>It always gives me a good laugh when "newbies" always say that established pros are always in for the money and how they the new breed are the only ones that are interested in the "art".</p>

<p>give me a sec while i go laugh</p>

[jennifer_spencer]

<p>Shawn, another thing you can do for practice is buy a wedding dress or two from the Goodwill and shoot the heck out of it. On the hanger, draped on a chair, with a large teddy bear inside it (or a woman friend if you can find one that fits), whatever you have to. It will get you used to photographing this item, metering for it, and learning new ways to display it so it looks interesting and arty. </p>

<p>If you can get some netting/veil material from a fabric store and combine that with a $5 white plastic headband from the drugstore, you can work on that part of your bridal portrait repertoire too.</p>

<p>PS - I like the new slideshow. If you crop the shot of the bride getting ready (black & white) in the mirror so it's closer in, I think it might be more powerful. It's a nice shot.</p>

[katrin_d.]

<p>Shawn, I can only say that I admire your attitude - you've been dragged into something you most certainly didn't ask for and are handling this more graceful than most people would ... kudos to you!!!! As far as "this snobby website" is concerned, I've never met a group of professionals more willing to share their experience and knowledge - not something that should be taken for granted.</p>

[neilambrose]

<blockquote>

<p>Street photography can also be useful practise for capturing candids at weddings.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I can't emphasise this enough. If you intend to be a reportage photographer this will teach you everything you'll ever need to know. It's the most affordable photography school you can find - but one of the toughest and one of the best.</p>

[lee_richards2]

<p>I am a $500.00 wedding photographer. In fact I have done them for less. I am experienced, trained and equipped as well as most photographers who charge a whale of a lot more. Why? Because I am a photographer who usually charges a whale of a lot more. I reserve the right to help out people who are on hard times. There are a lot of people out there who could have paid me $3500.00 two years ago who are scrambling to pay anything now. I just did one of those the other day. A prominent family that is experiencing hard times. I was honored to do their wedding for free. I did a formal wedding for two pieces of wedding cake and a dance with the bride. The husband was leaving for Iraq three days later. It was worth it. </p>

<p>I have seen some pretty good work, by the way, from new photographers who pay attention and do their homework. And lest we forget, $500.00 four times a month is much more than a full time Walmart checker earns. </p>

<p>I think it is important to use our talents for good as well as treasure. Besides. People remember good people and word gets around. I always try to remind myself. The people you meet on the way up are the same ones you meet on the way down.</p>

[levimize]

<p>I am laughing so hard at all this, it happens in all businesses, get over it. I am a cabinet maker by trade, you wanna know how many fireman are cabinet makers too? I bet there are fireman photographers too. That group seems to have all the time in the world to devalue others occupations.</p>

<h1>“There is nothing in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and he who considers price only is that man's lawful prey.”</h1>

[William Michael]

<p><em>"I am a $500.00 wedding photographer. . . </em><br>

<em>I am experienced, trained and equipped . . . </em><br>

<em>Why? [do I charge $500]” </em><br>

<br>

<em>"Because </em><strong><em>I reserve [my] right . . . [to run my business and my life as I see fit]"</em></strong><br>

<br>

Exactly, Lee, <br>

<br>

<strong><em>Precisely - EXACTLY.</em></strong><br>

<br>

WW </p>

[tom_montemarano]

<p>Putting things in some perspective. I got married soon after I finished college. My wife's bride's maid made the wedding dress. Our "reception" was held in my appartment. Our friends brought the food and wine. I might have taken the photos :^), but actually my sister used my camera after I set it up for her (had to remind her to take the lens cap off once -- it was a Konica rangefinder). $500 would have been nice. But we had fun and some nice photo reminders.<br>

Tom</p>

[mc2imaging]

<blockquote>

<p><strong>Moderator Note:</strong> I am removing Shawn's posted image of himself because forum guidelines don't allow for posting of an image that one didn't take oneself. I encourage you, Shawn, to post your image on your personal page.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Maybe a little off topic (but this thread's topic is off anyway)... It's really too bad this thread didn't come up a week sooner. I was just in Albuquerque last week. It would have been fun to meet another photographer that wasn't born with a Canon 1D MkIII in one hand and a professional portfolio in the other. Perhaps we could have taken self-portraits of each other...</p>

<p><strong>Moderator Note:</strong> Another guideline is that the posted image be on topic and related to weddings and events, so I've removed your self portrait, Matthew.</p>