K10D High ISO Performance

[deaner66]

<p>I've always been afraid of the higher ISO's on my K10D. My first experiences just weren't that good. But earlier tonight I was messing around with ISO 1600 just to see what it could and couldn't do.</p>

<p>I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised.</p>

<p>In most of my shots, my camera was on a hard shell camera case. It was completely still. I also dialed the aperture down for optimal sharpness. This was a 50mm FA F/1.4.</p>

<p>Obviously, the fewer dark spots you have in the frame, the less noise you will have. My shots bare that out. If you have a well-exposed shot, not only can 1600 be usable, it can look pretty good. Now, the more shadows that creep in the frame, the less usable they may become.</p><div></div>

[deaner66]

<p>This is a 100% crop.</p><div></div>

[deaner66]

<p>This is also a 100% crop of the same shot as before. The noisy shadows.</p><div></div>

[deaner66]

<p>This is a good example of how a brighter shot can not only be usable, but it can also have very low noise at a high ISO. And this is the older K10D. No post processing on theses shots other than the crops.</p><div></div>

[personalphotos]

<p>This is all very true. If the scene is bright but still requires a high ISO to shoot, it will look fairly good. You'll see noise and maybe some banding in dark areas and loose some detail but overall a very usable image. Where the issue is, is if the light is very poor. The trick there is to over expose the shot somewhat. Boosting the exposure +1/2 to 1 Ev can compensate quite a bit for the poor light and help to reduce noise in some situations. </p>

[laur1]

<p>Yes, the only critique I can have for the K10D noise is that it's a bit "rougher" than on the newer cameras with CMOS sensors. But, that aside, the camera is very usable at 1600. Your photos are great proof of that.</p>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Truthfully, I found very little advantage to the K20D and K-7 over the K10D, with the following exceptions:<br /> <br /> 1) exposure latitude at high ISO was more limited, exposure needed to be spot on (less than 1/5th stop adjustment in post processing with an absolute ceiling of 1/4th stop before things went very badly</p>

<p>2) shadow noise could be an issue. Obviously this meant high key scenes were perfectly acceptable. I did post a formular for eliminating this noise (the purple banding/blotching) using ACR. I also posted a note of how to expose for this issue...way right, to the point of NOT clipping the whites, but literally being on the brink of clipping, and possibly clipping small portions of highlighted white areas.</p>

<p>I've said it over and over, I have resisted upgrading, and actually added another K10D to my lineup (under $400) for the simple fact that while I do truly believe that under ISO 400 the K20D and K-7 are the cats meow of APS-C sensors (IMO, simply the very best IQ for ISO 100-400 of any camera), the K10D is overall perhaps a better sensor.</p>

<p>The K10D is consistent. I know exactly what I will get with each shot, I know how to shoot for it, I know how to post process it. Bearing all those considerations, I will venture to bet my 10MP image beats the person who jumps the the new camera each generation and never learns the nuances of processing images.</p>

<p>Basically, the features set of the K-7 for my style of shooting is so compelling, that it's the reason I really like the K-7. If they could update the K10Ds firmware to K-7 software based features, I'd buy a few more K10Ds, and deal with the low res screen (comparatively speaking) and 3fps.</p>

<p>It's really a shame that firmware never did what it was supposed to do. Eliminate forced obselesence of devices. Of course we all know that if we could infinitely upgrade hardware through software, Pentax et al would be out of business. Unless, they offered major upgrades at a cost. I can't imagine Pentax profit margins not increasing if I could by K-7 firmware of $100 for my K10D.</p>

[RickW]

<p>A couple of K10D ISO 1600 shots taken from our front steps during "Snowmageddon" on Friday night:<br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/10636795&size=md<br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/10636796</p>

<p>I'll try posting the photos in line too, but I tend not to have much luck with that.</p>

<p>Overall, I would love to have another 2 stops to play with, but I'm fairly happy with ISO 1600, and plan to wait to see what the K7's successor offers.</p>

<p>Rick</p>

[RickW]

<p>A couple of K10D ISO 1600 shots taken from our front steps during "Snowmageddon" on Friday night:<br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/10636795&size=md<br>

http://www.photo.net/photo/10636796</p>

<p>I'll try posting the photos in line too, but I tend not to have much luck with that.</p>

<p>Overall, I would love to have another 2 stops to play with, but I'm fairly happy with ISO 1600, and plan to wait to see what the K7's successor offers.</p>

<p>Rick</p>

[miserere_mei]

<p>Justin just saved me a whole lot of writing. I haven't personally compared the K10D with the K20D or the K-7, but my findings regarding K10D IQ mirror Justin's.</p>

<p>Here's a photo inside a dark pub, using one of our fellow p-net Pentaxians as model. Shot in RAW processed in ACR.</p>

<p> </p>

<p align="center"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_i6tc3TCyOTA/StaFNYxyztI/AAAAAAAACqA/ZjR63tKSk9M/s800/IMGP6109-small.jpg" alt="" width="512" height="640" /></p>

[cyanatic]

<p>I can relate to the "fear" of high ISOs. I do a lot of low light work and b&w conversions...I actually have found myself liking the look of some of the noise I get from the K10D at 800 & 1600...and then falling into the trap of questioning my own taste because so much of conventional photographic wisdom says "digital noise is bad!". </p>

<p>One thing I do not like, however, is purple banding. I was very interested in what Justin had to say on this, and I think I found the formula he was referring to. I'm hoping the ACR settings he gave (below) translate over to Lightroom 2.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=759912">Justin Serpico</a> shadow noise could be an issue. Obviously this meant high key scenes were perfectly acceptable. I did post a formular for eliminating this noise (the purple banding/blotching) using ACR. I also posted a note of how to expose for this issue...way right, to the point of NOT clipping the whites, but literally being on the brink of clipping, and possibly clipping small portions of highlighted white areas.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Justin -- Post below from 2007 is the "formula" you are referring to?</p>

 

<blockquote>

 

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=759912">Justin Serpico</a> <a href="../member-status-icons"><img title="Moderator" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/mod.gif" alt="" /><img title="Subscriber" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub7.gif" alt="" /></a>, Feb 07, 2007; 01:53 a.m.</p>

 

<p>I came up with a little noise reduction for the K10D. Using Camera Raw CS (2.4)<br>

The noise issue is blotching mostly in the shadows AT 100% crop. This was actually tested on ISO 1250 shots. Let me just say one thing at web resolution (1MP 1024x768) there is absolutely no visible noise. This little setting pretty much eliminates the color noise at 100% crop.</p>

<p>Settings:<br>

sharpness 0% (should be default anyway, use USM for sharpening).<br>

luminance smoothing: 5<br>

color noise reduction: 40<br>

Now go to calibrate:<br>

Shadow tint: -5<br>

Red hue: 20<br>

Red sat: 40<br>

Green Hue: -65<br>

Green Sat: -65<br>

Blu Hue: 0<br>

Blue Sat: -50<br>

Also, Adobe RGB 16bit.<br>

Let me know what you think and feel free to post improvements.</p>

 

 

</blockquote><div></div>

[mountainvisions]

<p>Steve,</p>

<p>Pentax did a really good job with the noise patterns on both the 6MP and 10MP Sony sensors.</p>

<p>They created film like noise, which did very well when converted to black and white.</p>

<p>So if you are mostly converting, just go ahead and shoot at 1600 and enjoy the results.</p>

<p>On the flip side, I haven't used that method in a long time (because I haven't used ACR in a while), let me know how it translates to Lightroom. But my recollection was that it did a very good job removing the purple noise from shadow areas, and that purple was really the most annoying thing on the K10D at high ISO.</p>