Help needed - selecting a flash

[gk_sullivan]

<p>I searched the lighting forum and this one and could not find a good answer. I thought I would post here as the Nikon guys would know the answer and they may not frequent the lighting fourm.</p>

<p>I appraise commercial real estate and need to upgrade the flash I use on my D40x (wich has creative lighting and i-ttl). It has an 18 - 135mm Nikon lens. The problem is when I am taking pictures in warehouses with 30' ceilings (large spaces) that are not well lighted. I always take these pics at extreme wide angle (18mm). With the on camera speedlight all I get is a black void with detail only about 10 - 20 feet. I would like to extend that to 75' maybe 100' if possible. I have no problem ramping up the iso as noise really doesn't matter too much. The pics are used in Word documents. The flash I choose must live on my hot shoe and I do not have the time to set up a tripod. </p>

<p>Thinking about it, I guess I need the most powerful flash possible but am puzzled as to how to compare flashes easily. </p>

<p>I understand the guide number system and how to convert from 100 iso to 200 iso (1.4x) but what puzzles me is now to convert the zoom specification. The guide number surely changes as the zoom changes. The Nikon speedlights are rated at a zoom of 35mm but others I've seen are rated at 85mm, 105mm etc. I suspect the manufacturers use this to make their less powerful flashes look good. Otherwise, everything would be standardized at, say, 50 mm.</p>

<p>Question: Is there a formula to convert this? 85mm zoom factor times ? = the 35mm equivalent? Any rules of thumb? High guide numbers at 35mm is better than high guide numbers at 105mm? Ignoring Guide numbers is there another specification that the flash manufacturers show that would help?</p>

<p>Unfortunately, there is no way I can afford a powerful Nikon flash (SB-800 or 900). Are there any lower cost alternatives? Anybody know which $100 to $200 flash would fit the bill?</p>

<p>Any tips or tricks that might help me when taking pictures in this situation?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance for any help! This forum is helping me a lot!</p>

<p>Gael</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>The D40X's pop-up flash is iTTL compatible but not quite CLS, as it cannot be a CLS master. In this case how about getting an SB-600?</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Sounds like an SB-600, to me. But if you're really talking about wanting to evenly expose a dim room with important elements that are 75 feet away while you're using a wide angle lens and no tripod... your only hope is to really crank up the ISO, use a lens with VR, and let the ambient light do the job. On-camera flash without a nice light-colored ceiling or nearby wall to use as a large reflector - that's always going to give you trouble when shooting cavernous interiors.</p>

[Two23]

<p>Here's the bad news. You aren't going to get what you want with just one flash. What you are wanting to do immediately runs into the problem of light fall off. You just aren't going to evenly light up that much area with one flash. You have several options. One is to put camera on a tripod and try to make some HDR photos using available light. This is likely your cheapest option. <br />Second option is to buy multiple flash units and slave them. I'm thinking maybe x3 Vivitar 285 or SB-24 flash plus a set of RF-602 triggers from e Bay. Flash are maybe fifty bucks each, and trigger set is $75.<br />Third option is to get a big honking flash and try aiming it at the ceiling from near the middle of the room. I'm thinking of a used Alien Bees B800 here, triggered by the pop up flash on your camera. Price is about $250 plus the stand. You will need AC power to plug it in. <br />A fourth option is to buy a whole trunk full of 500w work lights (maybe 10 of them?) and spread them around so they light the place up. Camera on tripod for longish exposure. <br />Bottom line is I don't think a single SB-600 is going to do much. But wait, there is a possibility here. Shoot at night. Go to the big space and set up camera on a tripod. Put camera on 1 minute exposure. TURN OFF ALL LIGHTS. Carry the SB-600 (really any flash would work, even $50 used SB-24) in your hand and point it at different areas you want lit. Start popping them by pushing the "test" button. Walk around being careful to not have yourself standing between flash and camera, popping the flash to evenly light the place up. You should get about 10 flash pops since recycle is about 6 seconds. This would work but will take a little practice. It's called "flash painting." It's your second cheapest option.<br />I do a lot of multi-flash night shots, but only outdoors, mostly in winter. I have enough lights to flash the entire front of a Walmart Supercenter.</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[eric_arnold]

<blockquote>

<p>I have enough lights to flash the entire front of a Walmart Supercenter.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>this is easily my favorite comment on PN, ever. that kind of says it all.</p>

<p>matt and kent have good advice, but it kind of depends on how serious you want to get about lighting. if i were you, i'd probably get an sb-600 first and see how that improves your shots. at the very least, you wont see vignetting at 18mm (which is merely wide angle, btw).</p>

<p>after this, your options become myriad and complicated (and more expensive). an sb-800 or 900 can be used as a remote commander for other 800s, 900s, or 600s, as will an su-800. but at this point, i'd think about upgrading the body to at least a d90, whose pop-up flash can also trigger 600s, 800s, or 900s. a d90 with multiple 600s would be a no-hassle, compact set-up.</p>

<p>another option is the ambient light route, involving a tripod and long exposure.</p>

<p>you also may want to upgrade the lens to something like a tokina 11-16, which not only gives you a more extreme wide angle and improved IQ over the 18-55, but can also shoot at 2.8. so it would be better for both flashed and no-flash shots than your current lens.</p>

<p>the last option would be to take kent's suggestion, buy a bunch of external lighting and light up everything in sight--including department stores.</p>

[User_3607948]

<p>Gael,<br>

Although you'll not fill a poorly lit warehouse from a single flash, you can improve the images by setting the camera to Slow Sync. The flash will provide some illumination several feet out from the camera; the rest of the image may appear a little brighter.<br>

Also try the on-camrea, D-Lighting editing. This will attempt to create better lighting across the entire image.<br>

Joe</p>

[mark liddell]

Kent's post is right on the money, you need a number of cheap remote flashes. Even an SB800/900 isn't going to light those kinds of space by itself, it might have the range but only zoomed to 105mm.

[Two23]

<p>Guys, it's going to take more than one flash pop to light up something like what he's talking about. The problem is getting the light to spread evenly. There just won't be enough from one pop. Using SB-600/800900 type flash for this is a needlessly expensive route.<br />Here's what just one X3200 monolight can do. I buy these on e Bay for about $400 to $450. Compare that to the price of an SB-900. The X3200 puts out as much light as ~20 of those. <br />Kent in SD<br /><a href="http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/duckgrabber/nCorsonGdFth.jpg">http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s5/duckgrabber/nCorsonGdFth.jpg</a></p>

[rossb]

<p> Well for about $200.00 you could buy a sb600 which is a very nice flash. I have one. It will not illuminate a warehouse but it is much better then your built in flash. I have never taken pictures of a warehouse before but I have taken pictures of church interiors and I usually put the camera on a tripod and use a long exposure. Since you do not want to set up a tripod (1 minute) because of time restraints then you would not have time to use multiple remote flashes or anything else. I would just buy the sb600 and take the best pictures you can. </p>

[mark_drutz]

<p>The Nikon SB-600 costs a little over $200. Sunpak and Sigma also make good flashes that are generally less expensive than comparable Nikons. Raise the ISO to 1600 or 3200 and you should get by</p>

[gk_sullivan]

<p>Thanks everyone for your comments!</p>

<p>It looks like I won't be able to throw enough photons into a large low lit warehouse space with only a hot shoe mounted flash. If the flash would throw that much light would probably set me on my butt when I hit the shutter realease! While I take pictures 'on the fly' when making my inspections, if I had to have a good interior shot for some reason then I guess I would take a tripod and use long shutter speed to capture ambient light as many of you suggested. </p>

<p>The other ideas were helpful... craking up ISO, using a faster wide angle lens, using a tripod, using slow-sync (never thought of that!), etc. All of these things would help.</p>

<p>As Ross (and others) suggested, I guess I'll "just buy an SB-600 and take the best pictures you can." But I'll look into other flashes as well. What would make the decision easier would be to know that the other brands really do have flashes that are truly i-ttl compatible. I get suspicious when I read the hyped up marketing... </p>

<p>As I was surfing the web last night I found this which will help me:</p>

<p><a href="http://dpanswers.com/content/genrc_flash_models.php">http://dpanswers.com/content/genrc_flash_models.php</a></p>

<p>Seems to be up to date and gives some really good info about who makes what. I also found that, if one downloads the manual it has all kinds of charts that gives the guide number for different zoom levels. That will help me compare.</p>

<p>Again, thanks.</p>

<p>Gael</p>