How much power in a warehouse?

[ali_bleckinger]

<p>Hey all,<br>

I've been searching other questions and postings to find my answer and I'm still not sure about how much power I'll need. I am going to be shooting team pictures (I coach at this program, so I'll be doing it each year) in a warehouse type building. It's something like 20,000 sq feet and has 25 foot ceilings or near that. The groups will be anywhere from an individual to 40 people in a team group.<br>

I'm mainly looking at the Alien Bees kits... and thinking of starting with two AB1600s. Is this too little, too much etc? I don't want to buy twice and I want to be able to get good shots so that I get a good word of mouth around town as I'm slowly starting a portrait business as well as taking my team's pictures.<br>

I shoot with a Canon 50d - 17-55 f/2.8.<br>

Also, suggestions about accesories would be help full... shoot through versus reflective and anything else I may need to know.<br>

Thanks.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>The 1600s should give you plenty of power for a large group. I have White Lightning 1600s, and I've seen photos of a railroad bridge lit at night with them. Should be all the power you'll ever need! The one thing I like about the WL 1600's vs. ABs is that the WLs have a 1/4 power switch so you can really dial them down when you need to.<br>

When doing shots of individuals, softboxes are going to give you your best light, or if you're on a budget, umbrellas will work as well. I like shoot through white, although if you want a bit more "kick" since they're sports team photos, you might like a silver bounce.<br>

For the larger group shots, I'll need to defer to others in the forum, as I've not shot groups that large and don't know what types of modifiers people use, if any. But you'll definitely have enough light with the 1600s.</p>

[john gettis]

<p>I ran across this the other day and thought it might be the answer you are looking for.<br>

<a href="http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10046-10396">http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10046-10396</a><br>

Hope this helps John</p>

[ali_bleckinger]

<p>Thanks John... I see they're using 3 AB1600s... yikes! I'm hoping to do OK with two. And thanks Devon.... do you think 1600s are too much? Should I ge going 800 here?</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>How much power is enough? It depends. Do you want flash a stop or two above ambient, or do you want to overpower the ambient? Do you want to light the background?</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>I went back and forth for a long time between the White Lightning 800s and 1600s before I decided on the 1600s. Will I ever use them at full power? Maybe not, but I'd rather have too much than not enough. You can always dial them down. And if you're going to be shooting groups that large in a space that large, you can't go wrong with the 1600s. They're only $80 more than the 800s, so I'd go for it.</p>

 

[ali_bleckinger]

<p>Thanks Devon... I'm aiming that way too. I'd rather have my arsenal be a bit too much than lacking.<br>

Robert - I would probably like to overpower the lighting in the warehouse - it's not very pretty. As for outdoor light coming in - there really isn't any right now - we would have to open a garage door for that and it's been about -15 degrees out here! :( May be a different story in the summer - I could use some outdoor light.<br>

As for backgrounds - this will be my first dabble into using a background/lights. I do primarily outdoor on location stuff so far - and am still in practice mode. I am planning on buying a couple muslin backgrounds - probably white and a dark grey textured one and possibly a bold color (I'm thinking green with our uniforms) to be fun. For white would i want it lit? what are the advantages to lighting your background?</p>

[brooks short]

<p>AB 1600s are only 640 ws each. In the link provided, using 3 AB1600s and large silver umbrellas the brightest exposure achieved was f/11. at ISO 100. That's not quite enough light for me. I'd be looking at 3-1200 ws power packs or 2-2400ws power packs and 3 heads with large white umbrellas or large softboxes. or diffusion frames and silks. </p>

[ali_bleckinger]

<p>Oh man, that last bit looks like a foreign language. I'm off to read b/c I'm not sure if power packs are a different type of light or something you hook to lights or what is going on there.<br>

Also wondering... Why don't you like the f/11 100 combo? What would be optimal to you?</p>

 

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>I shoot with 4 AB800 and 2 WL x1600 and with my Canon 5D Mark II they all those lights are almost over kill even outdoors. I use them all on the orignal Vagabon battery pack I just can't use the modeling lights when on battery. I use the new long throw beaty dishes which don't waste any power and can throw light a long ways. I am able to shoot group shoots at ISO 400 on my 5d2 which lowers the contrast when shooting outdoors. In a warehouse you will still have tons of ambient light so you really don't need as much power as you may think. When i am shooting outdoors at the beach I am able to easily over power the sun even with my AB800 just using the builtin reflector no umbrella's at all.</p>

[brooks short]

<p>"...Oh man, that last bit looks like a foreign language. I'm off to read b/c I'm not sure if power packs are a different type of light or something you hook to lights or what is going on there.<br />Also wondering... Why don't you like the f/11 100 combo? What would be optimal to you?..."</p>

<p>Ali,</p>

<p>There are 2 basic types of studio strobes (flash).... a monolight which has a single case containing both the power supply and the flash head and pack and head systems which consists of a power pack which several flash heads can be plugged into.</p>

<p>Generally Monolights have less power than power packs and because the power supply is integral with the flash head a monolight will weigh more which means more weight on top of the light stand or suspended on a boom. You can buy small power packs, as small as 400 ws and you can buy much larger, more powerful power packs up to 6400ws. The more ws available the more power to the flash head and usually more light from the flash tube.</p>

<p>I prefer a pack and head system and more power is better than less for the situation you are describing. I like to shoot at a low ISO, 100 or less. And I like to use light modifiers such as large diffusion panels and soft boxes which eat a lot of light.</p>

<p>For a large group shot as you've described I like to use these large light modifiers at some distance from the subjects (which is why I need large modifiers to maintain some soft quality to the light) with a good amount of power so that I can obtain a large depth of exposure as well as a large depth of field for sharpness and even exposure from the front row to the back.</p>

<p>So I think your job would be easier with a better exposure and a nicer quality of light if you had more power and more light rather than less.</p>

<p> </p>

[alec_myers]

<p>Except that powerpacks and heads can easily cost 10x as much as monolights, and they're heavier overall, and since the cables between the pack and head is high-voltage, expensive, and generally short, they're not as flexible.</p>

<p>Someone shooting with a canon 50D and a basic zoom lens is unlikely to want to splash out $$$$$ on a big rig of powerpacks and flashheads.</p>

[ali_bleckinger]

<p>Yea I would like to stay a tad lower on the budget after reading some of the suggestions above. <br>

Any specific limitations/no no's to starting with AB1600s (2) and then building out from there?</p>

[raymond bradlau]

<p>Some great info already posted, I just wanted to add a few thoughts (Not groups of people but I shoot cars/motorcycles in warehouse fairly often)<br>

3 lights is much better than 2 for spreading evenly over large groups, and you need to think how you are going to light the background so you will probably add another one or two at some point.</p>

<p>You will not have to worry about overpowering the light in the warehouse, I bet as long as you shutter speed is over 1/60th it will not show at any aperture let alone the f8-f11 you will be using</p>

<p>I dont use umbrellas but I know they are the sawed off shotguns of light modifiers (not very efficient at all) I prefer big octoboxes </p>

<p>Dont skimp on stands (or look into C clamps), you will want the lights high and aiming down to get even light on the fist row of people to the last </p>

[devon_mccarroll]

<p>Personally, I think the pack heads would be more than you'd need, and they are expensive. I would start with the Bees, or White Lightnings if you want stronger modeling lights for portraits and things. You can't go wrong with trying them out, because they have a 60-day money back guarantee. If you decide it's not enough light or you don't like them, then all you're paying for is to ship them back.<br />If you get a white backdrop, you're going to need a couple of lights to blow it out to pure white if that's a look you're going for, and then additional lights for your subject(s).<br />Another thing I did when I was trying to decide on lights was I went out to Flickr and specifically looked for the groups that were geared to, say, Alien Bees 800s or 1600s. You can look at what other people are doing with them. But again, with their money back guarantee, you really have nothing to lose by trying them. Do go for better stands though. I like the Avenger I recently got.<br>

Oh, and you should also look at the Cybersyncs and maybe a CyberCommander if you buy Bees or White Lightnings. I use the Cybersyncs to fire my lights and adjust the output manually on each light, but if you're going to have them up high shooting large groups, the CyberCommander will give you the ability to control everything from where you stand. From what I've read on the Bees site, it's a bit more work to set the Cybercommander up the first time with their current lights (it's made to work best with the new Einstein lights they have coming out), but once you have it set up, it's done.</p>