Future of Pentax 645N

[r. edge]

I am considering the purchase of a Pentax 645N II but wonder about

this camera's future. Unlike the Contax and Mamiya 645s, the Pentax

cannot be fitted with a digital back such as the new one being

offered by Kodak. Assuming that Pentax wants to offer a competitive

645 as digital backs become more common and affordable, this suggests

that the 645N will either be the subject of a significant design

change or will be replaced by a new model, probably in the near

future. Or am I missing something? Thanks for any comments.

[wim_van_velzen]

This point is often mentioned as a disadvantage of the Pentax 645 and 67: they have no changeable backs, so they aren't fit for digital.

<p>

No 35mm brand has changealbe backs, yet there are Canon and Nikon digital cameras, that use their 35mm lenses. The use of the lenses is what being obsolete or not is about.

<p>

So the point isn't: will the Pentax MF cameras have changeable backs, but will there ever be a Pentax digital SLR that uses their MF lenses?

<p>

The digital backs / digital parts integrated in the camera are the expensive part of a digital (MF) system - not the camera itself.

<p>

Just my � 0.02, <a href="http://www.fotografiewimvanvelzen.nl">Wim</a>

[r. edge]

Wim, I can assure you that for a prospective purchaser, the cost of the camera body is very much what it is about if the camera body is quite liable to become obsolete within a matter of months.

 

Cheers

[jarrod_connerty]

...<i>the cost of the camera body is very much what it is about if the camera body is quite liable to become obsolete within a matter of months</i><p>Roy, based on the current cost comparison of MF digital backs vs. film backs, I'd say you'll have more than a few fistfuls of months before the onset of obsolescence.

[garvey_p]

"...if the camera body is quite liable to become obsolete within a matter of months."

 

Months? Not even remotely close.

 

The digital/film debate is an old one here. IMO, someday digital will approach MF film in quality and price. I don't know when that someday is, but it isn't soon.

 

And even when that day comes, digital might not necessary replace film but be an alternative. And, as it's been said before, film is an achival medium. Digital changes storage formats quite often (i.e., floppy>Zip>CD>DVD have all happened in the last eight years; what's next?).

 

Don't worry about the camera's future. Instead, worry about your own future. Do you think you want to go digital? Your answer should inform your purchasing choices.

[andrew booth]

Pentax had a digital plan - manufacture a 35mm camera body, and let Pentax users mount their MF lenses on it (like the Contax strategy). This plan unravelled a year ago, and there doesn't seem to be an alternative offered:

<p>

<a href="http://www.dpreview.com/news/0110/01102401pentaxdslrnomore.asp">Pentax Cancel 6Mpix SLR</a>

<p>

The point about it not being about the body is valid. Digital MF backs are an expensive purchase; most backs are 5x the cost of the body itself. If you want a cost-concious strategy, buy the Pentax and team it with a Nikon/Canon/Fuji 35mm digital. You could buy Contax, but you'll pay more for the body, more for lenses and much more for the '35mm' digital body.

[peter_popp1]

Why would it not be possible for some manufacturer (Pentax, Kodak?) to make a digital insert for the P645? While this camera doesn't have removable backs, it does have a rear port that allows access to the film plane.

 

I guess electronic connections would be an issue if the camera doesn't already have them.

[r. edge]

Hi to all,

 

I think I'm not making myself clear.

 

I am very interested in the Pentax 645N, but I am concerned that Pentex will announce, within a short time, that this model is being replaced or significantly re-designed. The basis for this concern is that Kodak has recently come out with a digital back that works with the Contax and the Mamiya. List is about US12,000. It is probable that the cost of this back or some other back will come down significantly in 12 to 18 months. Unless I am missing something, this suggests that Pentax is about to replace the 645N with a camera that accepts a digital back. If so, I'd rather wait than buy a 645N, only to find in three months that it has been replaced by a digital compatible model. One might think that Pentax would make its intentions clear, but I have been unable to find any company statement on this issue.

[danny burk www.dannyburk.]

Well, Pentax just came out with the "645NII" not very long ago - what, maybe first part of this year? It seems very unlikely that they would have done so, only to turn around and replace it again in short order.

[thomas_t]

Roy,

First, it is the compatibility of the lens system that is the more critical concern. The cost of the 645NII body, while significant, is nothing compared to what you will spend on the lens system. Worrying about whether any camera will go digital or not is, with all due respect, not perhaps the best use of your time. Digital works for certain purposes, but it is lousy for others. Photojournalists who need fast turn around find it very convenient. Landscape photographers who use long shutter speeds and hike from here to the other side of the moon can't be bothered with picture noise and battery consumption.

Decide what you want to do with a camera first. As for fretting about whether the 645NII will be replaced so soon after its introduction, what makes you think that any of us would be privy to something that Pentax itself is not telling the world? Instead of agonizing over the Kodak $12,000 digital back, get the camera of your choice and just go out and shoot. Eventually everything will be digital, but worrying about it now is like stressing about the eventual energy death of the universe .... sure it will happpen, but you've got plenty of life to live before it happens. Go out and make your film camera of choice work for you. But if you have lingering doubts, get the Mamiya 645 or Contax and let us know how the $12,000 Kodak back works for you. Best regards

[mark_mitchell5]

Tom absolutely hit the nail... Roy, go get a Pentax 645 & don't worry about digital backs. They're not replacing it soon & if you have the 12k for a dig-back, buy it & what works with it. The prices WILL NOT come down in 12-18 months - try years. Quit agonizing - go shoot.

[jay_.]

Note that Mamiya recently halved the price of their 645E, their only current body which can't accept interchangeable backs. A few years ago a 2MP 35mm SLR-based digital body cost a lot more than the Kodak back does today. Now there are 6MP SLR's that cost under $2000. Roy might be wise to wait; however, camera manufacturers are not trying to close the door on future product sales. Just because the Contax and Mamiya and Hasselblads of today can accept the Kodak back of today doesn't guarantee that the next iteration, which might cost half the price, will not be purposely engineered to be incompatible. Kodak doesn't make cameras and Contax doesn't make digital backs--they need each other and will cooperate. If Contax calls up Kodak and says "make sure your next back has xyz connections that will only it the Contax 645-II" that's how it'll be. We consumers aren't going to win ;>)

[moses_sparks]

Well, it took Pentax 30 years to get around to re-designing the 6x7, speedy product development doesn't seem to be their forte, so I'm not sure you have anything to worry about :)

[wayne_campbell]

Maybe Pentax's motto is "Life Begins at Forte".

[richardcook]

Discussing the future of a particular camera model is ironic in the extreme on the verge of the anniversary of 9/11. I have purchased far more gear that is now obsolete than that is au courant and I am sure this will continue to be the case. I also have to admit that the rate limiting step in my photography has never been between the gears but always between the ears. Why not assume that whatever camera you buy will be worthless at the end of four years and that you will, therefore, need to amortize it over that time. If you spend $3200 on a rig, this would be $800 per year or something like $67/mo -- something on the order of a premium cable television subscription in Chicago. If you have a camera that is worth anything at all at the end of four years (meaning you didn't drop it or have it stolen or have your kid use it to demonstrate the properties of oatmeal as a lubricant) you will be ahead of the game!

[bob_chong]

"Discussing the future of a particular camera model is ironic in the extreme on the verge of the anniversary of 9/11. "

 

How is this ironic in any way? Was Pentax's USA headquarters at the Twin Towers or something?

 

Sorry, I fail to see "irony" here. Or maybe you're using Alanis Morissette's definition of irony. Wait, even her definition doesn't work.

 

Shoule we all fall silent from all discussions until 9/12? In fact, I hope this forum shuts down completely for the next week, just to avoid any instances of irony.

[dave_bazzel1]

Please do go ahead and buy the Pentax 645N. I have one and find it to be a suprisingly wonderful tool....... And when the techno-brats label it "obsolete" and convince you that you no longer will be able to take good pictures with it let me know I will buy it from you and keep on shooting. After all Roy, it's all about the strength of your images not what some magazine techno-punk thinks we need to be hawked next isn't it?? Consumerism flat out wears me out. The camera's future is as good as your photographic ability. Best wishes on your decision.

[allan_jamieson2]

I'd agree with Wim and others that the camera body is the least expensive part

of the equation. I've just bought a new Pentax 67II to replace an older Pentax

67. The new camera was expensive, but nowhere near as expensive as

having to replace all my existing P67 lenses would have been if I had

switched to another type of camera.

 

What is most likely at some point in the next few years is that Pentax will start

to offer fully digital bodies that can take existing lenses for the P645n and P67

series of cameras. Maybe not as flexible as add on digital backs, but Pentax

have never bothered with removable camera backs before now and I can't

see them changing drastically anytime soon.

 

And when I can buy a digital Pentax 67 compatible body that I can use my

existing lenses on and also get excellent results with; then I'll consider buying

it. But, with present digital technology, digital is only just starting to approach

35mm film quality, it will probably be quite a few years before it will be

anywhere near a good 6 x 7 cm Velvia transparency.

[feli]

I would not worry about the 645NII becoming obsolete any time soon. Digital

has a VERY long way to go before it can match the quality of med. format,

especially at a economically reasonable cost. There is a fallacy that just

because there suddenly is a digital implementation of a analog process, that it

is automatically better. And even if Pentax came out with a digital camera next

week, I doubt that they would cancel the 645NII. The two will live side by side,

because there will always be people who prefer one medium over the other.

 

feli

 

PS: The 645NII is a REALLY nice camera.

[jeff_drew4]

Considering the other posts above, it seems clear to me that if you want a 645 film camera now and use it as a digital camera later, you should consider other brands, not Pentax. So why are you wondering? What is it about Pentax that attracts you? If you want one camera/format to "do-it-all" for a reasonable price, I suggest reviewing and prioritizing your needs. As a film camera the 645NII is a very good buy. If you see yourself doing digital now, why bother with the film version at all? Or compromise and go 645 now and buy a MF film scanner. Problem solved?

[m_meachen]

The new Contax digital, 6 million pixels for resolution, £6000 ask price, and obsolete in 12 months time

 

A 1985 S/H pentax 35mm P30 with a kit sigma zoom, £150. resolution 120 line pairs per mm x 24 x 120 lpm x 36mm for the whole negative,

doesn't this come to some mega number, more than 25 million?

 

Eventually 35mm will be as obsolete as glass plate but when? when? when?

 

and this is before we start to think about 6 by 4.5 medium format

[jbfocus]

I have a new 645n that I bought in Feb 2002 for $1899. "I have the receipt" I am selling for only $1299 on ebay, this camera is in mint condition and so far I have had no sale yet. Dont understand why?

jbulko2662@aol.com

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Michael Reichman over at the Luminous Landscape is reporting that Pentax displayed a digital back for the 645 NII at the recent Photokina Photo exhibition. However, I have not been able to find any other mention or info...

 

For the info on Luminous Landscape, see the Photokina 2002 update section of his web site:

 

http://luminous-landscape.com/new/index.shtml

 

Robert DeCandido, PhD

NYC

[cliff_lesergent]

"<i> I am selling for only $1299 on ebay, this camera is in mint condition and so far I have had no sale yet. Dont understand why?</i>"<p>

 

Perhaps it's because you can buy a new 645N-II for only a few dollars more?<p>

 

A friend of mine returned from Photokina last week. He is Canada's largest Hasselblad dealer, and he got to spend a lot of time playing with the new Hasselblad H1 645 camera. What I found most interesting was the comment that when they were designing this new camera, the benchmark Hasselblad set out to beat was not Contax or Mamiya - it was Pentax. High praise, indeed!

[Robert DeCandido PhD]

Here is the story, verbatim:

 

"Good news for Pentax 645 owners (Michael Reichman included). A reader

has reported that he visited Photokina yesterday and saw the first

digital back for the Pentax 645. It is made by NPC in cooperation with

Mosaic Imaging. The first generation model has the electronics off to

the side, looking similar to a Polaroid back for the 645. They are

apparently working on getting the electronics into the film insert

cavity, so the second generation will be a lot more compact. Also, he

will use a larger 645 chip as they become available."

 

Look here:

 

http://luminous-landscape.com/new/photokina2002.shtml

 

Look for the Sunday, 29 September entry.

 

Robert DeCandido, PhD

NYC