Staircase Formals

[mgk1966]

<p>Was wondering if anyone has any tips on shooting staircase formals. I have an event this weekend that will be all in one place from getting ready to last dance. The only decent place for formals is a big staircase in the lobby. Staircases always seem more difficult than they look, because of the light fall-off, DOF, banister shadows and stepped posing. Does anybody have any good suggestions? TIA.</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Most important--bring a step ladder so you can get higher. Your camera needs to be about mid point on the group or a little higher (vertically).</p>

<p>Make sure you have enough DOF to cover the depth of the group as sometimes that is deeper than normal and put the focus point at the appropriate place.</p>

<p>Instead of putting all of a larger group on the stairs, have some sloping down and around the banister. If you do this, put the bride and groom at the bottom, so you don't get banister shadows on the gown.</p>

<p>If you can bounce off a large wall, that is better (softer shadows) than an umbrella or softbox, but whatever you do, get the light high enough so shadows go downward and for coverage of the group.</p>

[cjogo]

<p>You can actually use the staircase as a background --- eliminating any DOF or light-falloff</p><div></div>

[cjogo]

<p>stair stepping - & bounce card</p><div></div>

[scrivyscriv]

<p>Off-camera flash should help a lot in taking care of light fall off and giving you more f/stop options. <br>

Regarding light fall-off, I recently shot a series of formals that took up an entire stage, and the stage wasn't lit well on the peripherals or front steps. The ceiling was too high and dark to bounce, so I shot direct flash about 45 degrees camera right, 20' from the group. Since it was a light dress/dark tux wedding, I chose to light the guys and just let the girls' dresses expose normally.<br>

<br /> So in your instance, you might put a light on a stand towards the upper/rear part of the group, bouncing off the ceiling to light the back of the group more evenly. Or bounce the light from behind them to get backlit highlights, which will increase apparent sharpness and help somewhat with light falloff.</p>

[cjogo]

<p>Our examples are 1/4 of sec at 6.7 --- with a large white card, for bounce >> on a 580 ( manual ) shoe-mounted. No secondary flash--- hand metered for the ambient .</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Matthew, can you describe the staircase in question? They vary, making it difficult to give tips that cover any kind of staircase. Some are narrow and have little surrounding space, making it hard to put off camera lighting anywhere. Some are huge, like C Jo's examples. Some are steeper. Some don't let you back up enough to avoid distortion.</p>

<p>Also, time of day makes a difference in that at night, you have very little ambient (daylight) helping you fill.</p>

[mgk1966]

<p>The staircase is a little narrower and steeper than C Jo's. It curves around with one handrail along a flat wall and the other side exposed to the lounge. So rather than the front, I'm envisioning the formals being shot from the side. There should be ample room to back up. The ceiling is very high but white. The formals will be done around 6pm, well after dark local time. </p>

<p>C Jo, are you using a tripod to maintain those shutter speeds? What are you doing about the mixed lighting and color balance?</p>

<p>Thanks,<br />Matt</p>

[picturesque]

<p>OK then--I'd do what I said above--use the bottom of the staircase and banister and just a few steps up, shot at an angle. I'd also look at the landing above and possibly put accent lighting (rim) coming downward. You could put people coming down the stairs, but their lower halves would be hidden.</p>

[cjogo]

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=930241">Matthew</a></p>

<p>Always a tripod for formals --- I expose for the ambient (hand meter) & just kick enough bounce strobe light :: to balance the color and the strobe also helps sharpen the image >>> and of course RAW --manual focus-- manual exposure ....</p><div></div>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Matt, if you tell me where you're shooting I may have an image for you. For now, here's an example of what you might want to do shooting towards the sides of the stairs.</p><div></div>

[fotografz]

<p>A couple of tips that can make life easier for you when shooting formals on a stairway:</p>

<p>Get high ... LOL!</p>

<p>Seriously, get your camera up as high as you can, but more importantly get your lights off-camera and higher than the camera so any shadows are dropped down behind the subject rather than casting shadows on the person behind them.</p>

<p>Try to get back far enough to avoid using a wide angle lens field-of-view because it will force the perspective ... making foreground subjects huge and people in the back really small. The higher you can get with the camera the less this is a problem. </p>

<p>Get as much light as you can muster onto the subject to increase your depth-of-field as much as possible if the wedding party stretches up the stairs any distance.</p>

<p>Attached is an example shot with a Sony A900 & Zeiss 24-70/2.8. We used off-camera lights shot through translucent 60" umbrellas on stands about 13 feet high and tilted down to drop those shadows behind the subjects. </p>

<p>This was f/14 @ 1/200th shutter using ISO 640 ... in this case, dragging the shutter was not an option because the ambient lighting was an intense blue cast mixed with tungsten that turned the subjects skin a ghastly green hue.</p>

<p>600 w/s Profoto strobes overpowered all the ambient in this situation. However, this was a special case and not the norm ... which is usually just tungsten ambient. A pair of regular flashes both fired into a large reflective umbrella usually can do the job. There are ways to set this up quickly. </p>

<p>The lens was at 45mm shot at about 8 foot high off a short step ladder. If I had been able to get up higher with the camera, the perspective would have improved a lot and the Bridesmaids in the back could have been a bit larger in relation to the foreground subjects. </p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>Holy moly Marc, thats a big group of BM's. Most I've had is 13. Nicely done on the posing for a narrow staircase too.</p>

<p>Matthew, I would approach the setup something along the lines of David Shillings depending on the number of people in the groups. Kids/younger adults in front on the floor, either kneeling or sitting. the couple behind them, the rest arranged above on the stairs, taller folks in the back.</p>

<p>As for lighting, I would bring a large (60"+) umbrella or two with min 400ws heads set back about 10' - 15' group size dependent. Gel them to the ambient if you want a balanced look, then get them up as high as you can without getting shadows from anything in front of the lights (lobby chandeliers etc.). If you use two, point them outward a little to clean up the cross shadows. Groups less than 20 people, may only require one light to do the trick. In that case, I like to point the center of my light to the opposite side of the group than the lights position. That will let the stronger beam reach the opposite side of the group, while your weaker light at the edge of your brolly will feather and light the nearer people equally well. Hope that makes sense.</p>

<p> </p>

[mgk1966]

<p>Thank you all for the very good advice. I gotta go right now and buy a foldable step stool. I usually use speedlights off-camera, but if I absolutely have to I'll lug out the strobes. We'll have to see. <br>

David, the venue is the Seville in Streamwood. I wouldn't doubt if you've shot there before. It does look similar the staircase in your shot.</p>

[mgk1966]

<p>That is a lot of bridesmaides. Somebody didn't want to hurt any feelings.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p>Matt, the last time I shot at the Seville it was back in the days when I was still shooting 100% film and I was working for a studio. As I remember the layout though, it was very similar to the above shot taken at DiNolfo's in Mokena. With the large windows in the room, you might see if it's possible to talk the B/G in to doing the formals before the ceremony to take advantage of the light and tell them they'd have more time to relax and party after the ceremony. Good luck.</p>

[mgk1966]

<p>I thought I recognized that place. My sister got married at DiNolfo's about 15 years ago. </p>

<p>The B&G are adamant about not seeing each other before the 5pm ceremony, but maybe some bridal formals could be done before hand.</p>

[cjogo]

<p>Boy Marc > looks like you have your <em>"system"</em> down for yourself ~! WHew > I Know I could not carry all <em>that</em> around for a wedding anymore............<br>

I still do the " shoes~off :: stand on a chair" -- because I don't have an assistant nor the time > at most weddings .....but, mainly we really don't have a large indoor staircase, in our venues ( the images were from the Mid West ) We never have to use auxiliary lights ..except for corporate work. 90% of all weddings we shoot are outdoor ( year round weather in Carmel ) and 2 hours pre the ceremony....<p></p>

<p> </p>

[ottawa-wedding-photographe]

Thanks for the tips!

[picturesque]

<p>I personally like the Werner, small, aluminum 2 step ladder. However, you have no safety bar to lean on. If you want taller ones, there is a Polder aluminum ladder I like, and several people like the one Adorama sells, that converts into a hand truck. The aluminum ones are light, and I strap one to my hard case when going into a reception. I don't use assistants so it makes my life easier.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>C. Jo, trust me ... I do NOT schlep all that Profoto stuff to a wedding very often. In this case it was a very big Sicilian wedding with a huge wedding party, and something like 1500 guests. I hired a second shooter and a third shooter/assistant for this one because of everything they wanted done. It was also a Winter wedding, so outdoors was not an option here in Michigan.</p>

<p>Here's another one from that wedding. While not posed on a staircase (it was too small : -), it demonstrates the effect of getting even higher (shot from a balcony). One 600/ws Profoto mono was camera right, 14 foot high aimed at a large wall for bounce coverage, and the other 600/ws unit was camera left (which should have been even higher up than we set it). </p>

<p>A900, ISO 640, Pocket Wizard firing the strobes ... Zeiss 24-70/2.8 @ 45mm f/11.</p><div></div>

[cjogo]

<p>Besides looking very clean :: the strobes allow you that DOF /sharpest point of the lens. We still carry around a softbox /umbrealla setup with corporate work. Great shots Marc ~!</p>

<p>We generally can shoot everything outdoors --year round</p><div></div>

[fotografz]

<p>Oh, another thought concerning a staircase ... if you have a huge wedding party that is just to much to cram onto the staircase, consider shooting FROM the staircase so you can get high enough to get everyone in ... like the balcony shot of the big wedding party that I posted above. I didn't need to do that because there was a balcony to use ... but that isn't always an option.</p>

[tom_mann1]

<p>FWIW, in tight quarters (such as in the attached shot), there's only so much one can do to even out the light, get high, etc. In this shot (high school dance pre-party at the home of a parent), I had someone hold two gelled sb-600s at 90 degrees to each other, about 6 feet above my head on a monopod. They were aimed at the walls just out of sight to photographer's left and the wall in back of me. The built in diffusers on both were in place. Even with this, the image needed a lot of burning and dodging to even out the light on the kids.</p>

<p>The only way I could get everyone into the frame was to use my 14 mm 2.8 Sigma and then partially correct for keystoning afterwards in software.</p>

<p>Tom M</p><div></div>

[g.e._masana]

<p>I was thinking along the same lines as Marc: You get on the staircase and use the elevated viewpoint to shoot the group below you rather than vice versa. That's a much more flattering look then shooting up their noses and having them all placed cramped together on a staircase piled on top of each other. Plus lighting shadows (if any) will naturally fall downward toward the floor rather than land upward or directly behind them or upon each other. I don't see using stairs as a sort of multi-tiered posing bench or backdrop but more for their design line aesthetics.<br /> <br /> For example, I posed this party up on the stairway's overhang. If you really need to place them on a staircase, how about: you could have them assembled sitting circularly in the middle of the staircase with you one or two flights up, wide angle, shooting an overhead view as they all turn their heads straight up at you. Lit by an assistant off-camera and you've got something different. Send me a copy.</p><div></div>