mvw photo Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>OK, I must be doing something dumb.</p> <p>I am today using gelled speedlites to add a splash of colour. I am firing them using pocketwizards (traditional PW Plus II's) on my 1D, 1Ds3, and 7D cameras.</p> <p>If I mount the sender on the hotshoe, no problems: the remote fires every time.</p> <p>If, however, I connect the x-contact on either camera or even on the 580EXII to the sender's "camera/flash", with the supplied cable (yes, I tried many cables and many senders), the remote only fires perhaps one on ten times. Huh?</p> <p>So even the simples setup fails like that. As in:</p> <ul> <li>Camera: 1Ds MkIII or 7D </li> <li>Camera in manual or in Av, with shutter speed <1/200th (i've even tried 1/15th)</li> <li>On camera: no flash (and on 7D, flash down)</li> <li>PW PLus II with a cable from camera's X-synch contact into PW's "Camera/Flash" contact</li> <li>PW set to "Remote"</li> <li>Receiving PW set to "Locval" and via hotshoe cable to flash set to manual, 1/16th power</li> </ul> <p>As soon as I connect teh cable, even when I press the sender POW's button it's unreliable.</p> <p>What am I doing wrong? Suggestions, as always, very welcome...</p> <p>Michael</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>Here's the setup, for those visually inclined:</p> <div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>The receiver should be set to REMOTE. You are expecting the remote unit to trigger the flash.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmeyer Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>It looks like you have the cord from the camera PC plugged into the camera/flash port, which I believe is correct. Is the remote flash the same? I think it (instead) should be in "Flash". Hard to tell in the pic. It seems like such a straight forward thing. I am always amazed when they go temperamental like this. Not that <em>I </em> have, but have <em>you</em> <a href="http://www.pocketwizard.com/upload/photos/424Plus_II_US_English_Manual.pdf">RTFM?</a></p> <p>RE: Remote/Both/Local PW Manual:</p> <p>Use the TRANSMIT MODE switch to creatively<br /> select which flashes will trigger:<br /> • LOCAL = Only the flash connected to<br /> the camera’s Transceiver will trigger.<br /> Remote PocketWizards will not trigger.<br /> • BOTH (Default) = Both the local and remote<br /> flashes will trigger in perfect synchronization.<br /> • REMOTE = Only the flashes connected<br /> to remote PocketWizards will trigger.<br /> The flash connected to the camera’s<br /> Plus II Transceiver will not trigger.</p> <p>You may connect a local flash directly<br /> to your camera’s PC terminal. In this case, the local flash will always<br /> trigger regardless of the position of the TRANSMIT MODE switch.</p> <p>Personally, I pretty much leave my Transmit Mode switch on "Both"</p> <p>Good luck, I'll be watching this thread... t</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>Yup, believe it or not, I've actually RTFM (I teach advanced flash, see www.cameratraining.ca, so I get some extra knowledge from actually reading the manuals :-)</p> <p>I think they're plugged in properly - I use them for a living and that kind of basic I believe I got right. At least I hope so since I always use them like this (except usually the PW is on the hotshoe).</p> <ul> <li>PW on the camera: cable goes from X-sync on camera into "Camera/Flash" on the PW. This PW is set to "remote" (meaning the remote fires)</li> <li>PW on the remote flash: cable goes from "Flash" on the PW to the flash via a hotshoe adapter. This PW is set to "Local" (meaning this flash fires).</li> </ul> <p>Could it be bad PC connector contacts? The odd things is, I have tried variosu cables and various cameras and various PWs.</p> <p>I do seem to see that after I press a test flash, it's worse. Maybe that puts a reverse voltage back into the camera, amnd maybe the cameras do not like this.</p> <p>Further suggestions extremely welcome, as were the above ones!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>Its probably not this, but my camera's (5D) PC port has a dead spot on it. The PC plug on the cable has to be really, really tight, otherwise, I sometimes get intermittent misfires.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>Nadine - that could certainly be what it is. The PC connector has never struck me as very reliable, and this may be another manifestation of the same.</p> <p>But I see no other way to do this when I want to use TTL flash (the 580 or 430 on the camera) combined with the PW firing a few manual flashes. Or am I missing other ways?</p> <p>Of course I could also use the new PWs and use those to drive both TTL and manual flashes - I believe that is possoble.That said, having already invested in five PW Pro IIs, I think I would rather resist spending even more. As it is, my investments plus spending exceeded my income every month this year!<br> M</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>You could get miniplug mods done on the 580EX II by Michael Bass. So far, it doesn't work completely with the 1DMkIII or 40D, though. But these miniplugs are very reliable--I know because I have some done on flashes. E-mail him directly and talk to him, even though you can look at his blog. michaelbass.blogspot.com.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted December 25, 2009 Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>To troubleshoot, start from one end of the chain and work toward the other. For example, press the test button on the receiver - does the flash fire reliably (no? Check the connections. Replace the cable and repeat). Press the test button on the transmitter.</p> <p>Does the light come on in both the transmitter and receiver? (no? Check the channel. Check the cable connections. Try the test without cables.) Fire the camera at a slow speed.</p> <p>Does the light come on in the transmitter for the duration of the shutter opening? (no? Are you using Rear Flash? Check the connections. Replace the cable. Replace the camera.)</p> <p>I'm taking you at your word that you've read the ... manual.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 25, 2009 Author Share Posted December 25, 2009 <p>Nadine: will do.</p> <p>Edward, yes I have (plus I am an electronics engineer by training). Your suggestion makes sense and I have done most of those. What I did not do is dig down into the receving end - I think its the transmitting end - but will do.</p> <p>How many of you do what I do (speedlite on the camera and PW connected to the camera's PC connector? Howmany of you have tried to test the sender's test button, and THEN some more testing (in case my previous thoughts are in the right direction?</p> <p>Michael</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>Michael--I use my 580EX II on camera, and have a Cybersync transmitter attached to my camera's PC port. This is why I know exactly where the dead spot is on the PC port, and that I need a really, really, tight PC tip.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>Indeed. And so far that seems the most likely cause of my issue. Of course the trouble with intermittent issues is that it is hard to say when they are solved, as well. Ah.. technology. Perhaps hat's why I just now woke up in the middle of a dream about "Hal" in 2001.</p> <p>"Open the door, Hal".</p> <p>"I'm sorry, Dave. I can't do that".</p> <p>I'm bringing out the contact spray. Perhaps that's what Dave should have done, as well, just bring out the contact cleaner spray.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>Michael--how about using the old methods? I wouldn't bite the tip, but that used to work until it got completely malformed. Or, if you have a tip conditioner, use that on the cable end so it is really tight.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twmeyer Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>As much as they slow me down, this conversation lets me appreciate Nikon's threaded PC connection.</p> <p>For what it's worth, a friend who shoots a hundred weddings a year does exactly what you are doing... attaches a PW to his SB800 (which is in a D300 hot shoe) via a PC cord. The PW is used to trigger a T2 Q-Flash held by a VAL, and occasionally (using an alternate channel) an AB800 in another corner of the ballroom. He rarely has issues with this setup. I have worked a dozen weddings with him, with no problems to report.</p> <p>Good luck Michael, Nadine is a good person to brainstorm with... t</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>Actually, it's my Nikon screwlock cable that reveals the dead spot the most. Canon PC ports have the screwlock threads. But what I found was that while the cable won't fall out, the plug itself can rotate in the port, and when it rotates a certain way, that's when I get the misfires.</p> <p>I have far less problems with a very, very tight, regular non-screwlock cable, actually. Ironice, but true.</p> <p>I'd first test to see if that is really the problem--could be something else entirely. I'd suggest radio frequency interference if your camera was a 5D or 5DII--heard of that before with Pocket Wizard interference. It just sounds odd that the PC port use would give such bad firing consistency.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_myers Posted December 26, 2009 Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>I've battled for what seems like years with the wretched intermittent pc connector (firing pocket wizards) on both a 5D and 1dMkIII - the best solution was to use a screw-lock pc cable, and tape the swine with fibre-glass reinforced tape across the camera body, so it was held in tight.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 26, 2009 Author Share Posted December 26, 2009 <p>Alec, Nadine, et al: Yes, the more I test the more I think it's just bad PC connectors. Groan. Damn those intermittent issues!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 <p><em>How many of you do what I do (speedlite on the camera and PW connected to the camera's PC connector? Howmany of you have tried to test the sender's test button, and THEN some more testing (in case my previous thoughts are in the right direction?</em></p> <p>I've done it both ways. My Nikons have a PC connector in addition to the flash shoe. It works equally well either way. Furthermore, Nikon SB-28 and newer flash units have a threaded PC port on the side which is in parallel with the center contact of the flash foot. The only thing I don't do us use a shoe-PC adapter not part of a cable - they're unreliable. It boils down to checking cables, contacts and connections.</p> <p>There may be grounding issues between parts of the PW and certain flashes - unlikely with the equipment you show, which is designed to work in a flash shoe. Some studio flash units have reverse polarity, and won't work with the PW grounded to the chassis or stand.</p> <p>I have spare cables for everything from Paramount, including 3.5 mm plugs and Nikon PC tips with screw collars. I got over the duct tape approach years ago, except as an emergency measure. Paramount also sells a PC tip reconditioner.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_myers Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 <blockquote> <p>I have spare cables for everything from Paramount, including 3.5 mm plugs and Nikon PC tips with screw collars.</p> </blockquote> <p>I've tried many many different cables and had the same intermittent problems, which leads me to the conclusion that the dodgy connector is actually the one on the camera.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted December 27, 2009 Share Posted December 27, 2009 <p>How is the camera set up. Is it in "front" flash? Is the shutter speed 1/250 or less? PC jacks to get messed up, but it should be a simple repair.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 <p>Check the pocketwizard cable by shortening the pc connector at the cable end (the one you insert into the camera). The led on PW should turn red as you do this. And if the PW works it should fire another PW as well.<br> Assuming this works connect the pc sync cable to the camera and check if the led on the PW turns red. You could also check by connecting a flash straight to the same pc sync cable.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 <p>Yes, and you know what? Another surprise. The CABLE - the fact that I am connecting one to the PW at all - neatively affects the setup's reliabilty. I documented what I have found so far, here:</p> <p>http://blog.michaelwillems.ca/2009/12/30/pocketwoes/</p> <p>Thoughts?</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 <p>Yup, the cable makes a difference.</p> <p>So RF gets into tha cable. Well, then a solution to lessen the issue suggests itself: keep the RF out of the cable. As an engineer and a radio amateur I shold have thought of trying this earlier... a choke. See here:</p> <p>http://blog.michaelwillems.ca/2009/12/30/more-reliable-pw-connection/</p> <p>So now I need to find four of those removable chokes around the house (I found two so far).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picturesque Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 <p>I knew I'd read about radio interference before, but I thought it was with the 5D bodies. Apparently, it is also with the 580EX II flashes. Read the following:</p> <p><a href="http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/820750/0">http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/820750/0</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvw photo Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 <p>Indeed, Nadine - good link thanks. And this (the flash proximity) is <em>part</em> of what I saw.</p> <p>Note, though, that this type of lessening of sensitivity is also <em>very</em> prominent when you only have a wire connected to the PW, even if that wire goes nowhere. The RF choke stops that. As an engineer I should have thought of this immediately, but better late than never!</p> <p>Michael</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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