Cheap Slave Flash for groups B+C with 7D (430EX for group A)

[chris.platten]

<p>I currently have an EOS 350D, EF-S 10-22, EF 28 F2.8, EF 24-105 F4L, 430EX. Following a recent family and friends baby boom, I find I am shooting a lot of informal portraits indoors in a home environment using the 430EX for bounce flash. This often works well, but I have to adjust the flash when I change camera orientation and in cluttered rooms there is not always a clear wall for a combined wall/ceiling bounce.</p>

<p>I plan to upgrade to a 7D for my outdoor photographic interests, but I am also interested in the wireless flash control. I have previously looked at getting an ST-E2 to get my 430EX off my 350D and positioned in a convenient location in the room so I can move round freely, but I never got around to it. The remote flash control feature on the 7D gives me a way to experiment with wireless flash.</p>

<p>Now to the point. After purchasing the 7D and also a 70-200 F4L IS that I want for my outdoor interests, I will have very little budget left for extra flash units. My existing 430EX and the built in flash will allow me to experiment with two extra light sources. I would also like to try using the multiple groups feature with additional flash units. This is not a priority for me, so I do not want to commit a great deal of my budget here, but is something I think I would enjoy.</p>

<p>I wondered if anyone had tried, or has any comments on the following options.........</p>

<p>1) Using two of the ~$100 Ebay ETTL II flash units as slaves. Are they cheap and cheerful, or more likely cheap and frustrating. If it turns out to be the latter then this is $200 that could have gone towards a real Speedlite.</p>

<p>2) I have an old Vivitar 283 and also a Canon 300TL which could be used with optical slaves and manually preset, or they could be used with digital slaves which are not really cheaper than the cloned ETTL II units and there are a lot of posts in forums about compatibility problems.</p>

<p>3) Get a second speedlite (probably a 580EX) and make do with just groups A+B. This gets attractive as I sometimes shoot in very dark places where I would like the 'red lines' focus assist from a hotshoe mounted Speedlite as well as extra power from from a second flash. As I understand it the 7D focus assist is the same as my 350D, by pulsing the flash to give some extra light.</p>

[cabbiinc]

<p>To buy new you'll need a 430EX as your cheapest. You could just buy more.</p>

<p>For used you can buy 420EX, 430EX(version 1), 550EX, 580EX (version 1).</p>

<p>You won't be able to do optical slaves off anything. The preflashes that set off the 430 from your popup will set off the slave, then your shutter will open and the 430 will go off, then the shutter will close. You can however use radio triggers or cables off of the PC port on the side of your camera but you won't have TTL on those flashes.<br>

Sigma makes the 530 DG Super TTL EO [blah blah....] that frankly is a bit of a waste of time. I bought one thinking I could use it as a master to two 430s, but what they won't tell you is that it's only as powerful as a 430 (even though people review it against the 580) and it doesn't do ratios when in Master mode. It doesn't meter right either. I don't have anything else to try as master so can't tell you about that.</p>

<p>If it were me, I'd just get another 430EX or two, or if you really wanted to do things manually get radio triggers and a decent no name flash of decent power like a Vivtar 285. But the radio triggers will set you back as much as a 430EX.</p>

[scott_ferris]

<p>Don't buy anything, go to this site http://strobist.blogspot.com/ read it all especially the Lighting 101 etc. After you have done that you will realise what you need/don't need.</p>

[PuppyDigs]

<p>Realize both the 420EX and 430EX are largely unsupported by the 7D flash menu (FEC only). No biggie for the 430EX as it has full onboard controls, but the 420EX is almost barren of controls and will be only able to fire to auto E-TTL.</p>

[angel_bocanegra]

<p>This one I did with a 7D+ef-s 17-55 and one 430ex with an umbrella. If I wanted more fill I would have used the built in flash to fire as well. You should be fine with what you have to begin, study some lighting then figure out what you want the light to do for you, then buy some.</p>

 

<br /> <a href="http://s112.photobucket.com/albums/n179/angelboc/?action=view&current=enriqueCuahu.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n179/angelboc/enriqueCuahu.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" /> </a> <br /> <br /> <br />

 

[ben_goren]

<p>Chris,</p>

 

<p>Ditto the referral to Strobist. TTL is fantastic for fast-paced work such as what photojournalists

and wedding photographers do. For off-camera flash, not so much — and that goes doubly

for digital.</p>

 

<p>By the time you figure out all the ratio stuff with multiple groups and FEC and what-not, you

could have just set the bloody things manually and been done with it. It’s quite simple, really:

set the shutter to 1/160; set the aperture for your desired depth of field (deep / shallow); set the ISO

for how much ambient / background light you want (generally underexposed a couple stops, and

slow the shutter if you start pushing the limits of acceptable ISO). Then, make a wild guess as to

what to set the flash to. Chimp the results, checking both the preview and the histogram. Adjust the

flash, and lather, rinse, and repeat. Shouldn’t be more than a half-dozen frames at absolute

worst to get the exposure absolutely perfect, and experience will cut that number in half.</p>

 

<p>Oh — and before you start blowing lots of cash on a PocketWizard, if you don’t

need 99 ^{<small>44</small>}⁄_{<small>100</small>}% reliability, get a

$25 Cactus trigger. There’re plenty of valid reasons for getting a PocketWizard, but

there’s no point in getting one until you know what those reasons are.</p>

 

<p>Cheers,</p>

 

<p>b&</p>

[blackriverimages]

<p>Per the strobist site I suggest the Lumapro flash from Midwest Photo Exchange if you want a new flash for a good price. Somewhere around 130 dollars with a lot of power and easily adjustable manual mode. If you want used I would sugget any of the older Nikon flashes or Canon flashes. If you are in a large city you could also visit the pawn shops and perhaps get a deal there. With the advent of Strobist the older flashes are selling for higher prices these days as the demand is up. For wireless triggers I suggest the Yongnuo 602 for Canon or Nikon. About 30 dollars gets you a transmitter and receiver with a good build quality and high reliability.</p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Your cheapest bet is to use optical slaves (e.g. $10 Sonia units from Ebay) to trigger off of your 430EX in manual mode (which would put out no pre-flash).</p>

<p>Second cheapest would be to buy cheapo Ebay radio slaves to trigger everything off-shoe.</p>

<p>FAIW, I have a 580EX and four Vivitar 285hv units with external power (<2 sec full recycle), full manual power controls, umbrellas, softboxes, and stands. I hardly ever use the 580EX, except rarely when I shoot with a single flash on-shoe. I greatly prefer having my light 100% off-shoe. I put together my entire 285hv system for maybe $300 and a couple of hours in the garage. You can add in another $150 for my Wein IR system, I suppose, although that's certainly optional.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.graphic-fusion.com/vivitar285mods.htm">http://www.graphic-fusion.com/vivitar285mods.htm</a></p>

 

[chris.platten]

<p>Thanks for your comments so far. I have spent the evening reading the Strobist "Lighting 101" as suggested by more than one. I need to digest this a bit, read it again and digest some more. Just going back and looking at photos from last year, I can already see how I could have taken them better. I think Angel has it right. Once my 7D arrives, spend some time using it and the 430EX I already have, before I spend any more money.</p>

<p>If I do buy anything, it will be the cactus type to use with my two old flash units that just sit in a drawer at the moment.</p>

<p> </p>

[angel_bocanegra]

<p>Word of warning Chris. You may find yourself deep in creative lighting, you may just end up getting dedicated monolights. I just treated myself to a complete alien bees packages with three B-800, battery pack with all the essential modifiers.</p>

[malbuquerque]

<p>I have a 580EX (version I) and didn't have much luck with the Cactus (I have the V2s version). When the receiver is attached to the 580EX, the flash will go off sporadically without being triggered by the transmitter. When attached to the Vivitar 285hv, this will not happen.<br>

Based on some posts I've read here and there, I'm led to believe that the 580EX (and possibly the 430EX) generate quite a bit of noise that is responsible for triggering the Cactus receiver. For that reason I'm going to use the Cactus with the Vivitar 285hv from now on while I decide on a more reliable wireless trigger. I'm looking into the Cybersyncs and Pocket Wizards.</p>