What are the pitfalls of buying used lenses?

[robert_kennedy]

So, I'm now offically the owner of two 4x5 cameras. An old Calumet

CC-400 and an old Crown Graphic with an Ektar 127mm lens. So I have

movements and portability for a low cost. Low cost being my modus

operandi here.

 

And of course I need lenses. And of course I have been persuing the

famous on-line auction house in search of lenses.

 

And of course I am now confused....

 

Not so much about the LENSES, but on what to avoid. I know I should

look for a good working shutter. Need to have the lens mounted in a

shutter for my budget right now. But I've noticed that many lenses

are also missing mounting flanges. Is this a concern at all? I have

no idea if this is something easily replaced or what. Also, it seems

that there are multiple ways to mount lenses on the lens board. Or

am I wrong here? Some lenses seem to use different flanges to

mount. Is this an issue at all? Since the mount on my Ektar seems

to be welded on by time, I haven't been able to play around and mount

it on my Calumet. Should certain mounts be avoided?

 

And finally, anything else I should avoid so I don't look like a

moron? :)

[art_haykin]

From my experience with view and press cameras, mounting flanges shouldn't be too much of a problem, unless you're dealing with weird lenses, or lenses that have been buggered or tampered with. As for what to look for: obviously a functioning shutter and iris blades; clear optics; and signs of abuse as distinguished from normal and tear. If you are buying sight unseen, such as on auction sites or mailorder, be sure to have full recourse back to the seller.

[tedharris]

Robert,

 

Not such a foolish question at all and not such a simple one either. First a few

general thoughts:

 

1) If you can afford the modern Copal, Compur, Prontor shutters then get them

since they ware newer and sturdier. However, if you are gettting something

being sold as a "press"shutter" that means it self cocks and you need to use a

locking cable release for previewing. Also besure if it is a "Polaroid shutter"

that it has iris blades, lots of them do not.

 

2) If you can afford modern muilti coated glass then get that too, i fnot single

coated lenses will generally perform jsut fine for black and white. Now for the

nitty girtty in examining the optics:

 

3) Scratches .... and remember cleaning marks are just a euphimistic way of

describing scratches .... are less important on the front surface of the front

element than on the rear surface of the rear element, the colser they are to the

film the more of a chance they will affect image quality. Be careful when

buying online. I never buy a lens that I cannot return because I have found

that lots and lots of folk don't have a clue how to examine the optics. My

standard test is to look at each lens element through an 8x loupe holding it up

to a bright point source light and tilting it back and forth so that the light can

catch in the ridges of and reveal any scratches that may be present. You woul

dbe amazed at howm many lenes hare advertised on eBay and elsewhere as

having pristine optics, no marks visable to the naked eye, etc....only to be

loaded with scratches when you examine them under the right light and/or

with a loupe.

 

Now having said all taht do scratches mean that you should avoid the lens?

Not necessarily. They do mean that you should pay less for it. If there are

only a few scratches and if they are near the edge of the lens element(s) then

chances are they will ahve no impact on the image. You can even have some

fairly heavy scratches near the center and they may have no impact. OTOH

you could have one single scratch that would render a lot of images unsharp

if it were placed just right (my experience with a lens I tried afew years ago

because the price was right). Again I also have a 75 mm Super Angulon that

has some awful looking grundge near the center of the rear element and it

has no impact at all on image quality.

 

Bottom line don't buy used without the ability to test the lens if you can at all

avoid it.

 

2) Fungus which will usually manifest itself as pitting and/or discoloration and/

or removal of part of the coating of the lens. If it is not serious there is a good

chance it won't (anything except the sellers price) ... again try it first.

 

3) Separation which will appear to be a slightly darker discoloration usually

near the edge of the lens. If it hasn't spread very much then it is unlikely to

have an impact and of the three things I have been discussing is repairable if

you want (sometimes).

 

4) Mor insidious is misalignment of the lens elements and there is no way you

can tell if this is a problem without testing the lens. If there are obvious signs

of the lens having been dropped (e.g. a bent rim where the filter screws in)

think about this as a possible problem.

 

5) LF lenses suffer from variability from one lens to another far more than do

their MF and 35 mm cousins .... much less of a problem with current lenses

and those offered during the past 20 years but a possibility none-the-less.

 

Bottom line, if you cant' test it and return it and it is not absolutely mint think

hard about the possible gamble you are taking. You can buy with assurance

from KEH or MidWest that they will take the lens back if there is a problem, not

necessarily so on eBay. I have had to return 7 lenses that I have purchased

on eBay over the past 2-3 years. No malice on the part of the sellers I don;t

believe, just a lack of knowledge of how to check the lens. lenses that come

from a "professional studio" that is a large production house could be the

worst as they are often cleaned mercilessly by assistants and the

photographer who is sellign the lens may not even have lookede at it. OTOH

a knowledgable pro will know what he has and what he is selling and will

likely let you test the lens and will make adjustments for flaws that were not

originally noticed.

 

Oh yeah, did I say test the lens?

 

Good luck,

 

Ted

[johnelstad]

Hi Robert, you've received good advice thus far. Just a couple more cents worth from me. First, I think (and others disagree) that multi-coated lenses are much better than single-coated lenses. I don't think there is a big difference, and I certainly don't think they're worth the extra cost. Also, I think single-coated lenses they're fine for color use, though uncoated lenses are generally confined to b&w use.

 

Second, if you're trying to get a good deal on a lens, you might consider getting one with a known problem which many buyers/bidders will then avoid. There are many good lens repairers out there, Steve Grimes being probably the best (http://www.skgrimes.com). And you could probably get an estimate on the repair before making a commitment on the lens. Services like fixing shutters and CLA's are common and can make a world of difference to lens performance and value. You can even have the lens sent directly to the repairer in some cases to save time and shipping costs.

 

One other thing I recommend before bidding on some possibly risky item is to ask the seller a question, however trivial, to see how they responds. If they don't get back to you, or give you a hasty or unhelpful reply, you'll know to expect similar behavior if something goes wrong. Of course, many sellers will go out of there way to provide you with the information you need and these guys deserve your business.

 

One little bit of unsolicited advice, don't get hung up on lenses. You just got some new view cameras and you already have a great starter lens. Why not get comfortable with the medium using one lens and then see where your interests take you? Heck, you might wind up hating large format and wasting a lot of money on stuff you're not going to need. And finally, a quote that I think sums it all up, "Van Gogh only had one lens."

 

Have fun.

[brian_ellis3]

My experience with single coating vs. multi coating has been exactly the opposite of John's. The very popular G Claron line of lenses are modern single coated lenses that lots of large format photographer use because of their small size, weight, and cost. I have two of them. I also have some older single coated lenses, plus three new multi coated lenses. I have never seen any difference in the images made from the two types and I'd be amazed if anyone could look at say twenty images of mine and be able to tell which were made with which lens. If I were you, and cost was the major consideration that it apparently is, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a single coated lens such as a G Claron or an older single coated lens if everything else about it looked good.

[john_flavell]

Robert: I've had great luck on e-bay with used lenses. Most of the good luck comes from being very patient, hammering the sellers with questions, and going with gut feelings about buying or letting an item go.

 

I don't have a big budget for this, so I'm very careful with it. I've even posted specific questions here about little-known shutters and some of the older lenses that are unknown to me. (It's all unknown to me) The responses have always been very helpful and encouraging.

 

The debate over multi-coating is ongoing and will be forever. You just have to decide for yourself.

 

I suggest you pick the size lenses you want, and begin a methodical way of researching your picks for buying. It's worth the trouble. ALL of my large format and Leica SLR purchases were from e-bay and I'm very happy with the equipment. Like I said, ask the sellers lots of questions. If you're not satisfied with the answers, let it go. Ask lots of questions here, everyone is very helpful and the information pool is enormous.

 

It's your money. Ask Ask Ask.

[james_chinn]

Someone mentioned looking for items on ebay that have problems, expecially with the shutter. I bid on a 14" commercial Ektar that showed the lens in the shutter and a pile of springs and parts from the partially disassembled Ilex shutter. The seller agreed to take the lens back if it was not as described (the glass) with no flaws.

 

Well I got the lens for 95$ and it was perfect. I took the shutter to a local shop where it was reassembled after getting a missing part and CLA for $125. This lens with a refurbed shutter is probably $500-$600 at MPEX, Lens and Repro etc.

 

Read the archives about lenses. Check out S.K. Grimes web site for a primer on shutters. Make sure a lens purchased on Ebay can be returned. If the Auction route worries you, Midwest Photo Exchange is great to deal with, very honest in how they represent the quality of their items and in taking back items.

[dan_fromm1]

Robert, you sound entirely too much like me back when I first got a real 35 mm camera. I wanted lenses, and lots of them. As best as I can tell, though, the typical LF shooter who posts here gets by around three lenses in the field and takes the majority of shots with one favorite. Weight may be a reason, but I'm sure there are others.

 

I sit on the cusp between MF and LF. 2x3 Graphics. Just assembled a kit to take on a cross-country drive, and doesn't make sense the way my 35 mm kit (24, 35-70, 55, 105, 200, 500) almost does. 38, 65, 80, 101, 160, 210, 240, and a 100 macro too. When I look myself in the mirror I see an idiot snapshotter. I forget the scale, assume that idiot is one step down from a moron.

 

You've got wonderful advice so far. I bring up my own idiocy to support a little the suggestion that you should be thinking in terms of one good lens that will be useful on both of your cameras, not in terms of getting several. Pick something reasonable -- a normal lens is reasonable -- and use it a bit. In some situations you'll be unhappy using it. Let the unhappiness help you decide whether to get a shorter or a longer lens after that, and so on. No need to solve all of your problems now.

 

Cheers,

 

Dan

[aaron_van_de_sande]

Buy a lens/shutter with the expectectation that you will have to spend $80 to have it CLA'd. As long as the shutter hasn't been abused it doesn't matter if it works or is accurate. Once you have had it serviced the shutter is now in top shape and you don't have to worry about it any more...<br><Br>

 

--Aaron

[colin carron]

Robert,

 

A lot of good advice above. My 2 pence worth (UK prespective).

 

Having bought single coated lenses in the past I now would only buy m/c lenses if possible as I find there is a noticeable difference under some circumstances.

 

Ebay is a risk and I would only buy from there if I could not get a decent s/h deal from a shop where you will get some sort of guarantee.

If you do go the auction route then check out the sellers feedback v. carefully and ask them as many questions as you can think of to get an idea of the person selling. Newer lenses are often the same price or less from a shop. The auction only seems to give an advantage for older less desirable lenses.

 

Go for quality rather than quantity. A single top quality lens will be a better investment than two cheaper ones. You will not need as many lenses for LF. Two or three will cover most situations so go for the best.

 

Good luck

[reinier_de_vlaam]

I agree with the above from own expiriences on ebay. I got a lens claimed to be top-quality. I got it and it look perfectly all right at first glance. On closer inspection it had severe cleaning scratches on the front lens, so much it didn't look bright anymore. A pro told it was an excellent david hammilton lens. The seller does not respond to mails anymore. I do have his address but that 500km away.