Night Photography

[mike_brown8]

<p>I would like to consult this knowledgeable community about a project I want to start. It is taking photographs in urban settings with low light conditions. These scenes aren't totally dark, but very contrasty with harsh highlights and large portions of total darkness. I viewed many night pics and there are a few things which I will avoid (at least for the beginning) - shooting totally dark scenes, illuminated only by stars, or overexposing so that photographs look as taken during daylight. I estimate most exposures between a few sec to 1/2 hour. The exposures will be B&W. <br />I need recommendations in regard to the equipment that matches such project. (I try to avoid what many do - first purchasing equipment and only later thinking how to adapt it to certain conditions). My budget is not unlimited, but would also like to hear opinions as if there is unlimited budget. <br />The first selection is between digital and film. I have no experience with digital sensors in long exposures. I am quite concerned with noise accumulation by MF digital backs. <br />Although I may later reconsider, I would like to start with film for now. The first choice that comes in mind is my Rolleiflex. It has a great Planar lens and no moving mirror, but is limited to one lens only which doesn't fit this project. So next question is if to purchase a MF SLRs with a choice of 3 lenses or a Mamiya 330C. Although that may be the best choice, for now, I am considering a 4x5 outfit since I want to use some limited LF camera movements. <br />Next question is which 4x5 camera will perform best in low light conditions. Focusing on the GG in the dark is difficult, so a rangefinder comes in mind. I read several posts in regard to rangefinders, but they referred to fast handheld action, which is not what I am after. I will use a tripod for all exposures. <br />The cameras I have in mind are the Linhof Technika, Speed Graphic, Horseman, Burke and James, and Wista RF. Please let me know about other options and which in your opinion is best suited for this project.</p>

[franklin_polk]

<p>I can't speak for other 4x5s, but I've used a B&J press camera for night photography in similar settings. I haven't found focusing that hard (I only use GG, the RF on my camera has lost its silvering a long time ago). If the objects you want to focus on are close, just bring a bright flashlight and tape it to the top of the camera for focusing. For distant objects, find a light source at the area you want to focus that appears to be pretty much a point, like a distant streetlight. On the GG, focus back and forth until you have found the spot where the point is smallest. When out of focus, the point will diffuse and get larger. In addition, don't be afraid to stop down to cover up focusing errors; you're on a tripod anyways. For the TLRs/SLRs, they have a focus scale, so you can just focus by that. In really dim conditions, I've found both to be difficult to focus other than using the method I described above.</p>

<p>I've used Fuji 160S and Tmax 100 for night, I've found my exposures to be, on the long end, about 35 minutes, and on the short end, maybe a minute. If you're not doing hour long exposures, you really don't have to worry about overexposure. If you're using a meter, make sure to compensate for reprocity failure, found on the manufacturer's film data sheet. While technically there are color shifts with color film, color at night is different anyways, so I haven't noticed it. The best option for color film, as it is designed for warmer illumination and long exposures would be tungsten balanced negative film. Unfortunately, the last one was discontined in 2003 (IIRC), so you'll have to make do with what is availiable. If you want, some light meters can read down to 30 minutes to an hour, which would make the Fuji and Kodak tungsten slide films an option. IIRC, I think the modern Gossens and the Kenkos/Minoltas can read that slow.</p>

[mike_brown8]

<p>Thanks Franklin,<br /> There is no concern with color shift, since as I wrote, it will be exclusively B&W. <br /> About your 4x5 camera - I heard that it has more movements then a Speed Graphic. Can you use any of them in dark? Are they easy to control? Also, who can fix the rangefinder on that camera? Do you have a cost estimate? (I am interested since I may have a similar problem with a camera that was offered to me). </p>

[matt.bigwood]

<p>Regardless of equipment, the big advantage of using digital for night photography is that it doesn't suffer from reciprocity failure as film does. Depending on the film one needs to compensate for long exposures - it might be the case that a meter reading of 15 seconds needs an actual exposure of one minute or more to compensate for the film losing its response.</p><div></div>

[mike_brown8]

<p>Sure Matt, that's an absolute bonus. However, noise accumulation is more severe with digital and as far as I can tell, digital SLRs (that I used) have limited dynamic range when compared to some films. Film is more forgiving in regard to exposure, while with digital you need be very precise. However, with digital you can see results on the fly, while with film is more of a guesswork. <br>

What I am not sure about, is how well digital backs on MF cameras perform with long exposures. Maybe they are better then regular SLRs, since I am not using high ISO settings. I had no chance to test any of these and besides, even used they may be more then my whole budget. (BTW, I have no idea why used 22M pixels digital backs suffer no depreciation like most digital equipment). </p>

[franklin_polk]

<p>My B&J has front standard shift, tilt, rise and fall, no front swing, and no rear movements. It is pretty easy to control in the dark, although a small flashlight helps in general, especially for things like finding the right film holders. There is a guy on ebay who sells replacement mirrors for the rangefinder (Kalart) for around $20 ( http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Beam-Splitter-for-Graflex-Kalart-or-top-Rangefinder_W0QQitemZ110442395300QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item19b6e136a4 ); they look pretty easy to replace. It isn't worth it to me, as for what I do, GG helps me figure out movements better. I really don't worry about reprocity, as I'm not aiming for an exact exposure. I usually think along the lines of: "2.5 minutes wide open, so 10 minutes down two stops, plus another ten minutes for reprocity, so maybe around 20-25 minutes". In such dark enviroments, you won't blow out anything execpt the light sources (which are going to get blown out quickly anyways), you're just making other things in the scene more visible.</p>

[gerard_bynre]

<p>Mike,<br>

For ground glass focussing, I'm not sure any camera is <em>better</em>. Instead look for a camera with a bright G.G. (search the forums for recommendations) or replace the G.G. on your camera with a Beattie or Boss extra bright screen. Add a good light proof dark cloth. Choose a fast lens, f5.6 or faster, for easier focussing. Finally bring a powerful flash light which you can use to illuminate what you want to focus on - either by training it at the subject from the camera position, if close enough, or else by physically placing the flash light in shot right at what you are focussing on, and then remembering to remove the flash light before exposure. Then do lots of tests, and keep lots of notes. Hopefully if you are shooting B&W you can process your own negs. That way you can really see what combination of exposure and development gives you the best neg.</p>

[beamoflight]

<p>"(I try to avoid what many do - first purchasing equipment and only later thinking how to adapt it to certain conditions)"</p>

<p>Mike, I seriously think you are turning the world upside down here... Night time photography, which is a bit of a specialization of me (see my galleries: http://www.boeringa.demon.nl), can be done using ANY equipment you like. I have successfully used 35 mm SLR, Large Format and even a Large Format F138(!) 4x5 pinhole with great success for night shots...</p>

<p>Use the gear you have, and learn to use it, instead of wasting money on the next gizmo!</p>

<p>In terms of advices: if you want to try BW night photography, get Kodak TMax400. I have tested it in a controlled fashion against Kodak 320TXP, Ilford HP5 and even the low reciprocity failure Fuji Neopan Acros 100, with exposures up to 8 hours. But even the latter film, does not beat TMax 400, which has relatively good reciprocity characteristics as well. The two stops extra of TMax 400 make the difference, and cause it to beat even Acros 100.</p>

<p>As Gerard said, use fast lenses as much as possible (2.8 for slr, 5.6 for LF) to help manual focussing (forget AF, even if it works, you probably still want to adjust), and get a flash light. I also found it useful to have small LED lights with me, that I can put down on the point I want to focus on. Of course, this only works for subjects that can be reached, otherwise the flash light method is better.</p>

<p>In general, I can get away with F5.6 or F8 with focal lengths of 28-40 mm wide angle (35mm SLR).</p>

<p>And get yourself an MP3 player for the really long exposures (some of my Amsterdam night time pinhole photos required 45 minutes even on TMax 400, but the results were worth it, yes, you need to suffer sometimes in order for the best shot! ;-))</p>

[beamoflight]

<p>"(I try to avoid what many do - first purchasing equipment and only later thinking how to adapt it to certain conditions)"</p>

<p>Mike, I seriously think you are turning the world upside down here... Night time photography, which is a bit of a specialization of me (see my galleries: http://www.boeringa.demon.nl), can be done using ANY equipment you like. I have successfully used 35 mm SLR, Large Format and even a Large Format F138(!) 4x5 pinhole with great success for night shots...</p>

<p>Use the gear you have, and learn to use it, instead of wasting money on the next gizmo!</p>

<p>In terms of advices: if you want to try BW night photography, get Kodak TMax400. I have tested it in a controlled fashion against Kodak 320TXP, Ilford HP5 and even the low reciprocity failure Fuji Neopan Acros 100, with exposures up to 8 hours. But even the latter film, does not beat TMax 400, which has relatively good reciprocity characteristics as well. The two stops extra of TMax 400 make the difference, and cause it to beat even Acros 100.</p>

<p>As Gerard said, use fast lenses as much as possible (2.8 for slr, 5.6 for LF) to help manual focussing (forget AF, even if it works, you probably still want to adjust), and get a flash light. I also found it useful to have small LED lights with me, that I can put down on the point I want to focus on. Of course, this only works for subjects that can be reached, otherwise the flash light method is better.</p>

<p>In general, I can get away with F5.6 or F8 with focal lengths of 28-40 mm wide angle (35mm SLR).</p>

<p>And get yourself an MP3 player for the really long exposures (some of my Amsterdam night time pinhole photos required 45 minutes even on TMax 400, but the results were worth it, yes, you need to suffer sometimes in order for the best shot! ;-))</p>

[beamoflight]

<p>Sorry for the double post, but I got some heavy Photo.NET server errors when trying to submit the post, and it seems to have gone wrong...</p>

[mike_brown8]

<p>Thanks all for your responses.<br>

Marco, on one hand you say not to turn the world upside down (LOL - I have no such intention...) on the other, you steer me towards lenses with more open apertures and brighter focusing screens (which I prefer in any case). Choosing the right gear for the job doesn't equal to turning the world upside down. <br>

However, one issue which wasn't addressed so far, is rangefinders. Although I clearly remember a long thread that discussed this specific issue, all my searches didn't help. One poster explained how he shoots in low light, using the wire frame and rangefinder on his Speedgraphic, another trashed Wista RF, saying he purchased it new, but the rangefinder wasn't usable and he ended up returning it to the dealer. More comments were made about the Linhof Techika and its excessive weight for this task. <br>

I am grateful to anyone who can refer me to that long thread...</p>

 

[gerard_bynre]

<p>I don't think a rangefinder will have any great advantages - I have a Mamiya 7, which is a MF rangefinder, and it's no easier to focus in the dark then a camera where you focus by looking through the lens. Get a flash light.</p>

[mike_brown8]

<p>gerard,<br>

I am sure that focusing with a range finder is easier then on a GG. These scenes aren't totally dark. In most cases they are lit by street lights, neon signs, passing cars. The problem is with the very high contrast between the hot spots and dark areas. When you look at the GG, all you can see is a few white spots, everything else is dark. Using light helps but in many cases I want focus from x to infinity. I cannot place a flashlight in the middle of a highway (lol) </p>

[gerard_bynre]

<p>Mike,<br>

Have you tried focussing a non-rangefinder 4 x 5 for the subjects you are shooting, under the lighting conditions you are talking about? Maybe a rangefinder might be marginally brighter because ground glass focussing is limited by the lens speed, but there are other factors that would mitigate that nominal (and unverified) advantage. Firstly, there are very few modern rangefinders in 4 x 5 - so you are choice limited, and you are also relying on the rangefinder to be focus calibrated. Secondly, you have all the usual issues that any rangefinders have compared to cameras where you focus through the taking lens. Thirdly it's not that difficult to focus via a ground glass in the situations you are describing, if you make use of the practical tips suggested above. </p>