Customer complaint - no formals

[tina___cliff_t]

<p>We did not get formals after the ceremony because the couple didn't want them, they were hot and just wanted to get to the reception. The DJ gave us an hour for formals, and we used about 10 min of it. Which we got one rushed photo of the entire wedding party, and a handful of shots of just the couple together. We asked over and over through out the night if they wanted pictures with family, or even the whole wedding party and they replied "don't worry about it". <br>

Now they are VERY upset that we don't have those photos, and that we should have been more bossy. I'm not sure what the best way to handle the situation would be. Anyone even been through something like this? <br>

<br /> Thanks!</p>

[savagesax]

This hasn't happened to me, because I insist in getting the shots and I tell them they will be mad at me and themselves for not taking the time to capture these treasured moments. I pretty much don't give them a choice.

 

At this point you can offer to retake some images if they are willing to get dressed up, with means renting a tux, putting on the wedding dress again, flowers, the works.

 

You can offer a portrait season during the upcoming holidays.

 

If this happens to you again, always carry the contract with you and have them sign the contract, noting in writing some or all of the formals were turned down by the bride and groom. This will protect you in court, if it goes to court.

[ryan.]

<p>I always discuss the day with them before. I give them recommendations and have them fill out a day plan, but warn them that in all the weddings I have covered the day never sticks to the plan (nor should it really). I tell them to think about what's really important for them to have in regards to photography. Then I tell them the the day is about their wedding not about photography, and that they are my boss if they say do this and not that I will quickly speak with them and warn they may wish they had done this or that but they have the call. It's not my wedding it's theirs.</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>"This hasn't happened to me, because I insist in getting the shots and I tell them they will be mad at me and themselves for not taking the time to capture these treasured moments. I pretty much don't give them a choice." -Bob </em><br /><em></em><br />Bob offers the voice of experience here and he is absolutely correct. You asked over and over about these shots because you also knew the value of those images. What you missed was the "assertiveness" to get the shots done. I would have likely asked MOB and MOG if "they" wanted the family shots and enlisted their assistance in convincing the kids and wrangling whoever I needed. I can't believe the DJ offered an hour for images (what a great guy) but since he did you had the ability to stop the music and monopolize the floor...opportunities like that don't happen very often. If the kids "stuck to their guns" and really didn't want the shots I would have pulled out my one page contract and asked them to "sign off" of those shots by making a note with their signatures on the back of the page. This technique is a holdover from my studio days,....... I would also have noted any little problems that might come back to the studio and forewarned the studio since it was pretty common to get a few complainers here and there from people that were hoping they could get "something for nothing" from the studio in compensation.</p>

<p>Whole families rarely get together in one spot except for weddings and funerals so the opportunities for family photos at weddings are particularly important. Funerals tend to be more challenging to get the fun family photos and will typically lack at least one key family member in each image.</p>

[gregory_c]

<p>Unfortunately what is shot is shot. Only thing you could offer is group or family portraits.<br />I always upfront inform the bride of what important photos are needed and time required to do this. <em>"and that we should have been more bossy"</em> You have to take control of the situation, tell B&G that you "need just a few more minutes for these shots" & "you will be glad that we took these" Hey, I am old school shooter & can punch out a large wedding party, immediate family shots, & full length & close-ups of B&G in less than 45 min. Gotta work fast, shoot as much as you can before the wedding if keeping traditional. You will at least have individual formals, families, etc. This will be less to shoot after the wedding, espically if the if B&G start to wear out on you. <br />What to do ? remind her that she was hot & did not want any more photos taken. Offer outdoor sitting with the people she wanted, or free 11x14 framed. Or a parent's album.</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>ALWAYS get what you need.</p>

<p>That said, if the couple insist, try reminding them that this is what they hired you for and you would be remiss in not executing your part of their day. If that doesn't work, talk to the parents and ask if they can get their clan together for some brief family shots. Once you have that underway, go see the couple and gently ask if you can just pull them aside for a few minutes.</p>

<p>Or... my normal approach to formals is to work quickly (but thoroughly) to arrange every one, but I don't ask IF they want this or that, I just arrange it at speed and shoot it. I also have a second who will shoulder shoot images as we are getting set up. I have been shooting weddings for many years and so far, this has been the most successful approach. I developed this habit due to that fact that in days of old, your sales were due in part to your print sales, and thus if you didn't get images of the family, you didn't sell much of anything else.</p>

<p>As a response in this situation, I don't know what will be best since its over and they insisted you shot that way on the day. I would probably just stick to your guns, apologize that they are not happy and offer to shoot some family pics with them to compensate. Accept that you missed a key part of the formals and chalk it up to good learning.</p>

<p> </p>

[theresa_skutt]

<p>It seems so illogical that someone could be upset with you for something they told you not to do! They can't blame you if they wouldn't pose for them!!</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>"... my normal approach to formals is to work quickly (but thoroughly) to arrange every one, but I don't ask IF they want this or that, I just arrange it at speed and shoot it..... I have been shooting weddings for many years and so far, this has been the most successful approach. I developed this habit due to that fact that in days of old, your sales were due in part to your print sales, and thus if you didn't get images of the family, you didn't sell much of anything else." -David W.</em><br /><em></em><br />Another voice of experience :-)</p>

[dave_wilson1]

<p>No way to them. I would have gotten whatever shots I needed that we agreed upon ahead of time. I shot many, many weddings and never had this happen. They need to know the plan and when it comes to formals, you need to lead the way and get it done. Did they have a few drinks in the limo? That's usually cause number one of this stuff. After that "anything goes" you have to proceed accordingly. They were hot, so were you I'm sure. Tell them to go freshen up and cool off "so we can get in about a half hour of qualityf formals".</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Same thing for me--never happened to me because I insist on getting some formals. I 'bargain' with people if they want to forget them. I say it will take x minutes and then I won't bother them anymore about it. Then I do them--very fast. Usually this works. If not, I talk to the parents. They can usually get their kids to do some formals. If not, I have them sign off on a statement I write at the time, that they declined. The latter has happened maybe once in my hundreds of wedding.</p>

<p>Sounds like you needed not only the formals, but the romantic session--I'd break it up and try for the romantic session a bit later. Otherwise, it is too overwhelming.</p>

[tina___cliff_t]

<p>Thanks for the advice. I didn't think about going to the MoB or MoG. If this ever happens again I will try that. As for now, the idea about a family picture sounds like it might be a good option.</p>

[tina___cliff_t]

<p>Their DJ was very awesome when it came to photography, we got LOTS of his cards. When planning their day, he actually planned in the hour after the ceremony for formal pictures. Which he was surprised when he had to push that up by 45min when we explained they didn't want to take the photos. He also gave us pauses during the reception activities to get photos (of the man who caught the garter & the groom together etc).</p>

[bob_osullivan]

<p>This is why it's best to have some language in your contract about "refusal to be photographed" or "guests unavailable to be photographed". You simply cannot photograph someone who isn't there.</p>

<p>Young couples THINK they don't want any formals. I always tell them in advance that if they don't now, they will in 10 or 20 yrs, so it's important to carve out some time for that. However, if they flat out refuse, there is language in my contract about this issue. I make sure they read the fine print and understand it. That usually does the trick. Then I remind them about this fine print if the issue comes up. I'm not saying you don't give them what they want (journalistic style or whatever), just make sure you cover the bases.</p>

<p>Another useful technique is to make an agreement with the Limo driver not to make the alcohol accessible to the party until after the formals shoot. Sometimes that flies.</p>

<p> </p>

[tina___cliff_t]

<p>Ok... So I just got an apology e-mail from the bride I was really shocked to see it, but she apologized and promises no more bridezilla. (her words) :-O I wonder what changed in 24 hours? <br>

We'll see how this goes. Thanks again for the advice, we will definetly be more bossy next time. </p>

[ryan.]

<p>well it looks like we are the bosses and the day is indeed about the photography. kinda makes sense since 1/2 of all marriages end in divorce. sad world we live in.</p>

[William Michael]

<p >I am glad to hear that outcome.</p>

<p ></p>

<p ><strong><em>"we will definetly be more bossy next time." </em></strong></p>

<p ><strong><em></em></strong></p>

<p >One does not necessarily need to be overtly bossy <em>on the day</em> - Planning is important.</p>

<p ></p>

<p >The simple thing is when they are in your studio or having coffee with you looking over the sample albums they are 100% focussed on Photography and how important it is to them - (and their family and friends) because the Photos are in front of them.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I find it is very important to use key words and phrases at that sales meeting which I can replay in the heat of excitement and passion when, for some, all they want to do is get rid of the Photographer enjoy – key words usually trigger a positive response.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Added to that I usually have a TIME SLOT allocated for the formals and also a VENUE SLOT - even if it is on arrival at the Reception House where the guests enter and the B&G are "mine" before they make their grand entrance.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >All these "tactics" are just like Bob, “I pretty much don't give them a choice." – most of mine are covert and before the event.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Likely, being so blunt about this matter will draw criticism from some Photographers - but it is my experience that even IF (an that is big if) the B&G don't end up deciding they want at least one or two formals shot in their album . . . the Mums or Dads (or Grandparents or the Aunt who made the cake) does . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The problem is after the event, when the Bride gets that message from Mum - of course it is the Photographer’s Fault - and one can have it all sown up with three pages of legal excuses and resultant no liability clauses in the contract - but it is still the Photographer's fault and the bottom line is - that impacts upon business. </p>

<p > <br>

WW</p>

[david_schilling___chicago_]

<p><em>".....well it looks like we are the bosses and the day is indeed about the photography." -Ryan</em><br>

<em></em><br>

No the day is still about the wedding and not the photography. However, the photographer is still responsible for the photography. If the couple is serious about not wanting the formals, that's fine but that's also why you encourage them to reconsider, give them the "you might be sorry" speech and have them sign-off on their wishes.</p>

<p>It's true that there's a bunch of divorces, but as it says in <em>Corinthians, </em>"Love never fails".........people do, marriages might, but "Love never fails".</p>

[manuel barrera houston,]

<p>heck, here I have done numerous removal from those formals at the request of the bride or mom (After the divorce), keep taking them;-)</p>

[ryan.]

<p>I do believe it is our responsibility as relatively (but hopefully not too) disconnected persons to pull the "adults" aside and clearly bring attention to the fact that they may seriously regret the no taking the time and that it is almost a forgone conclusion that their family will regret their not taking the time. But in the end they are the paying "adults". I am not a purist one way or the other. I don't buy into the whole pure photojournalistic experience. I believe interference is necessary but should be brought to an absolute minimum. Well, I guess I have seen too many professionals be king of the day, but I do understand the other side. People hire you for your candids and romantics but blame you for the formals. I hardly ever find myself annoyed at a wedding, but if I do you can bet it will be at the formal section of the day! It seems everyone want these perfect images in a very short time but is intent on doing everything possible to thwart said conclusion. And why, why, why, why does everyone and there grandma (literally) need to shoot over your shoulder at this particular time!!! Not a big fan of formals though I respect their importance.</p>

<p>All that being said I now live and for the most part shoot in France. And when I have french clients its great! you can all but tie the camera to a dog and let him run around taking pictures and they will be happy. And they NEVER sue. </p>

[stephen_asprey2]

<p>What have you got to handle? Its not your fault.</p>

[ken_thalheimer]

<p>Don't give them a choice. You have a job to do same as everyone else there. If you cave & don't capture it they'll only be pissed later</p>

[tina___cliff_t]

<p>I'm moving to France! lol jk But wouldn't it be nice if life was that easy. :D</p>

[michaelchadwickphotography]

<p><em>"Ok... So I just got an apology e-mail from the bride I was really shocked to see it, but she apologized and promises no more bridezilla. (her words) :-O I wonder what changed in 24 hours?"</em></p>

<p>Sounds like a golden opportunity to turn an unhappy customer into a very happy one. I would be gracious and work with her within reason, to see what you can do to make her so happy with you as a professional that she recommends you to others. : )</p>

[matt_needham]

<p>When clients ask me to "be bossy" or "a drill sergeant" I explain to them that I will give advice, but I will not force people to do something they don't want to do or refuse to cooperate with. It says this in my contract, and we go over what the couple wants in pre-wedding planning meetings. It's often a compromise between what everyone wants and how much time and effort they want to spend. I always advise them to include their mothers' requests in the planning. With planning and cooperation I can make everyone happy. If they decide on the wedding day that they want to skip some of the photos I do tell them I think they may regret it later, as it was important to them when we sat down and did the planning.</p>

<p>Last weekend the MOB wanted a photo of a particular family all together. I approached them after dinner and cake, and asked them if we could do a quick family portrait. They didn't want to do it. I asked again with a little more sugar, and said that the MOB had asked me 3 times to get this photo, but if they really didn't want to do it I wasn't going to force them. They relented, it took a few minutes, and in the end I think they were happy they did it (I heard one of them say that a full family photo had not been taken in 8 years). If they had declined at that point I would've told the MOB that they had refused, and there isn't much I can do about it. </p>

 

[sherijohnson]

<p>Your contract should fully cover these situations and I like the advice of some here to recommend you get them to sign in writing that they refused to do certain portions of photos if you think it could be an issue later. Remember, these people start drinking and their judgment is impaired and they get hard to deal with sometimes.</p>