Nikon generic profile ... same as aRGB or sRGB?

[kiva]

<p>I'm trying to help a friend set up photoshop with her new Nikon D700 camera. (I am a Canon user so unfamiliar with Nikon ways ... lovely camera though).</p>

<p>It appears that the profile is "NikonD700 - Generic". I'm used to seeing aRGB or sRGB as the Source Space in photoshop. Is that "correct" or do I need/want aRGB OR sRGB as the Source Space?</p>

<p>Is "NikonD700 - Generic" equivalent to aRGB which is what I'm suggesting she use as her working color space.</p>

<p>Am I asking the right questions? </p>

<p>I am trying to get photoshop set up; I've calibrated the monitor and set all the photoshop settings as I think they should be but prints are still not matching what I'm seeing on the screen so I'm wondering if I need to "convert" or "assign" a different source space that I see when I go to EDIT > CONVERT TO PROFILE in order to see what is set there.</p>

<p>Any help is appreciated. (apologies for any lack of clarity).</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>By default, the profile is sRGB, but if you use RAW you can choose whatever colour space you like. However, the source space could be any. Colour management is about "mapping" colours to match input values and their colour representations to output values and the colour representation.</p>

<p>Personally, I never quite understood the use of having a "larger" colour space to work in. It only changes the way colours are rendered during the editing (again ,mapping those values to the monitor profile) - it does NOT change the actual data of the picture. I always prefer working against the normal/typical output profile, so at least you can get a decent idea upfront whether colours will be clipped or will be off. For me, that would be sRGB, since most commercial printers use that. If you print yourself, you could use Adobe RGB, the better photoprinters can handle it, and it would allow a wider gamut of colours.<br>

Anyway, that's my approach. And for most people (most of who, frankly, don't know enough about colour management) this is a quite sensible route. Just stick to sRGB all the way since that is your most likely output profile.</p>

<p>Either way, when done editing, I'd recommend converting to sRGB as output profile. All printers can work with it, and it's the default colour space of the internet. It may be a smaller colour space, but it's the most functional one.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>The screens typically show a narrower gamut than e.g. many current inkjet printers. Using a narrower color space for editing clips off colours that the printer could reproduce but you may not be able to see on screen. I prefer to retain as much of the original data during editing so that the printer can do its best.</p>

[kiva]

<p>Thanks for the responses!</p>

<p>But, I'm still left asking the question: how do I get aRGB or sRGB to replace what is showing at this time which is "NikonD700 - Generic"? </p>

<p>Why is it coming from the camera in that manner? Anyone know how I can suggest she get aRGB coming into photoshop from the camera. Is that the right question?</p>

<p>I agree entirely with the comments above: but, I'm trying to get photoshop to tell me it's seeing aRGB or sRGB instead of the current "NikonD700 - Generic".</p>

<p>Thanks so much for being patient with me.</p>

<p>Note: I did ask her to change her in camera setting to aRGB (since that's what I think is best and she can convert to sRGB after editing and before sending to a client or printer).</p>

[richard_driscoll]

<p>Hi William,<br>

I don't use photoshop and I don't have a D700 but I think you may be looking in the wrong place.<br>

I use GIMP and the settings for the camera profile and the colour space are quite different. I think you have the camera profile - the colour space setting for sRGB or aRGB may well be elsewhere.<br>

I hope this helps - of course it may be quite wrong!</p>

 

[fhmillard]

<p>Ok. If the real issue is the printing, try using NO COLOR MANAGEMENT in PS print setup.<br>

The D700 should have a color space setup with Adobe RGB as a choice. <br>

Yes, you can use EDIT->Convert to Profile-> Adobe RGB.<br>

You might want to find out which ICC profiles are loaded on her computer -- might be important if you use color management to print on specific papers and choosing different color spaces. PS should have loaded Adobe RGB profile, if not, you can get adobe ICC profiles from Adobe web site.</p>

[kiva]

<p>I've been using "No Color Management" Frank when I go into the print area ... that's what I do with my set up at home and it works beautifully.</p>

<p>I think I'll try the Edit > Convert to Profile > Adobe RGB trial next and see if I get a match in my print with the calibrated monitor.</p>

<p>Richard, you might be right, the "NikonD700 - Generic" might be the camera profile (I think it is but don't know for sure) but it's showing up in places I'm used to seeing aRGB or sRGB in Photoshop. That's got me puzzled ... thanks for responding though.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<blockquote>

<p>But, I'm still left asking the question: how do I get aRGB or sRGB to replace what is showing at this time which is "NikonD700 - Generic"?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In photoshop, image -> convert to profile. The other option is to have Photoshop warn when the image embedded profile does not match the working space, which will give you the option to convert.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Why is it coming from the camera in that manner? Anyone know how I can suggest she get aRGB coming into photoshop from the camera. Is that the right question?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Shoot RAW, and it suddenly becomes a no-issue, since that will allow you to assign a colour profile in Adobe Camera RAW. In a way it is good the D700 comes with its own colour profile, rather than a generic one, since ideally each and every device in the colour-managed chain has its own optimised profile.<br>

And that's the smallest of all advantages to shooting RAW ;-)</p>

[kiva]

<p>Wouter, thanks ... this might be making more sense now. (One has to wonder why manufacturers don't collaborate a bit more to make all this work better ... it would be a miracle but we can only dream of the day.)</p>

<p>I believe she is shooting raw at this time ... I may have to ask her to do the additional step (additional only because I don't have to do it) of converting to aRGB. </p>

<p>(I also wondered if it might be a plus to have the the Nikon profile! But, not sure if I have to convert it to aRGB since that's what I think my workspace needs in photoshop, right?)</p>

<p>I find myself wondering what other NikonD700 photographers are doing about this or what is different.</p>

[pete_harlan1]

<blockquote>

<p>(I also wondered if it might be a plus to have the the Nikon profile!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>To the best of what I can ascertain from a search, "generic" is the sRGB color space. This is the default color space for the D-700.<br>

Unless you are doing all your own printing, I see no logical reason to set the camera to (Adobe RGB 1998)<br>

Technically it is a wider gamut, (and so is ProPhoto RGB) but in practical terms, how many printers can reproduce it?</p>

<p>99% of all my printing is done at a pro lab. I have (their) ICC profile which I soft proof from.<br>

I also include a guide print. That may seem old school to some, but I am quite fatigued in chasing the elusive color calibration game. I simply convert to one of two profiles,,,sRGB or the profile specifically set up for me at the lab I use.<br>

Unless you convert to a ICC profile via software, there is no way the printer can know how to reproduce the colors accuretly. sRGB is standard with most labs.</p>

<p>As most have said, if you worry about it, shoot RAW and assign whatever you want as a profile.</p>

[gdw]

<p>When you go into color space on the Nikon D700 you only have two choices; sRGB and aRGB.<br>

I have never figured out why anyone that is not doing high end printing tortures themselves with aRGB. I leave the D700 on sRGB. My software handles it. My printer handles it. My labs handle it. My blog handles it. Photo.net and all the rest of the places where I post on the web handles it. I have the RAW file so on any rare ocassion when I should happen to need aRGB (hasn't happened yet) I can make the change. In the meantime I do not have to be concerned about making conversions or failing to make conversions.</p>

[kiva]

<p>Some like to use aRGB for wedding photography (that's me) because these are photographs that may be wanted or needed into the future for printing and I have all my image files saved in aRGB because technology has a way of leaping at times.</p>

<p>Some time in the future printers for us at home/studio will be able to print aRGB. Hey, if you have a higher quality color gamut why not use it! </p>

<p>It's so simple to batch to sRGB and burn images for the bridal couple and I save on disc and external hard drive in aRGB if the files are ever needed in the future for quick access. Yup, I also save the RAW files. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.</p>

<p>So back to the question at hand: still wondering why "NikonD700 - Generic" shows up as the "Embedded Profile" for the image files coming from her camera. Any idea on why that is showing up? </p>

<p>Thanks for the discussion ... still problem solving though.</p>

[fhmillard]

<p>When, in PS, what do you see in EDIT->COLOR SETTINGS - Working Spaces - RGB? What are your choices in the drop down? Is "NikonD700 - Generic" a choice?<br>

Also, what is the color space setting in ADOBE ACR?</p>

[kiva]

<p>Frank, the working space she now has is the "sRGB IEC61966-2.1" RGB workspace and at the top is "North American Prepress 2. (She <strong>did have</strong> aRGB in that location but she requested to change it to sRGB and I had no problem with that change even though I use aRGB on my computer.)</p>

<p>~I am at my home computer and getting ready to load car for travel to this weekends wedding so will be unable to check her computer until Sunday to see if "NikonD700 - Generic" is a choice in that drop down list. I will check on Sunday or Monday and respond back. Thanks so much for lending a hand. Can you say why you're asking about that item being in the dropdown list? Just trying to learn more about this Color Management since I know only enough to be dangerous at this point. (My computer gives me lovely prints so that's one success but her's has been difficult.)</p>

<p>~She is not using "ADOBE ACR" and we've not opened it ... she uses Capture One to open her RAW files. Should I open the Adobe ACR and see what settings it has ... where do I look in Adobe ACR to find the color space? (I've never used Adobe ACR but willing to try anything.)</p>

<p> </p>

[fhmillard]

<p>Well, I am only curious about where "NIKOND700 - Generic" comes from and that menu may give a hint.<br>

Yes, open a RAW file in ACR and look at color space at bottom of ACR window. If Bridge is installed, the camera color space is listed there too</p>

[kiva]

<p>Just back from helping work on the computer we've been talking about ... first, thanks to all who have helped! Really, really appreciated! I'll respond to the most recent thoughts and give the results in hopes that it may help someone else in the future.</p>

<p>~I was asked if "NikonD700 - Generic" was listed as a choice in this location: Edit > Color Settings. The answer, after looking today, is "no". It's not listed there.</p>

<p>~I was asked to find out what color space was listed for ADOBE ACR ... well, I tried to bring it up on her computer and I was given an error message telling me the program couldn't be opened. So, I decided to look at something that bugged me several days ago: When I went to "Edit > Convert to Profile" I found the source space to be "NikonD700 - Generic" profile. Also found Destination Space to be listed as "Working CMYK - US Web Coated (SWOP) v2". This setting puzzled me and I thought it was wrong so changed it to "sRGB IEC61966-2.1".</p>

<p>After that change: I have prints now matching the monitor!</p>

<p>That's my message back to everyone ... thanks for the help. I have to admit that the above change was pure guess work on my part but it seemed logical since I knew the CMYK setting didn't make sense. </p>

<p>All's well that ends well.</p>