What's wrong w/ my M6 and who can fix it?

[bill poole]

<p>I bought this camera a while back and after a few rolls began to see a problem that I at first thought was flare. My second guess was that I had a light leak in the back or bottom of the camera. But a technician in San Francisco said he could find no leak, and I now think the issue may be the shutter. <br>

I am going to post a couple of images showing what is clearly light where it should not be. Here are some other puzzling characteristics of this problem:<br>

+ it is intermittent, but increasing. One of the samples I will post show three images, with only the middle one affected. A roll of 36 might have eight or ten frames affected.<br>

+ the light is getting down into the sprocket holes, which is why I thought it was coming from the back.<br>

+ it is always on the bottom of the frame, often on the bottom left. It is never on the top of the frame<br>

For what it is worth, this is an M6 TTL with a 35 mm asph lens -- although I doubt the lens is the the cause of the problem.<br>

Has anyone seen anything like this before? And could you suggest a repair person to take on this kind of problem?<br>

Thanks so much for your help.<br>

Bill Poole</p>

<p> </p>

[bill poole]

<p>Try to upload</p><div></div>

[bill poole]

<p>Sample 2</p><div></div>

[john_shriver]

<p>It has to be a light leak because the fog extends into the margin of the film, outside the picture area.<br>

Might you have changed the lens with the film at or next to that frame? There are some light seals between the curtains and the exposure mask that wear out with age.<br>

Any of the well-known Leica repair places (DAG, Golden Touch, Youxin Ye) should be able to fix this quickly. But, it's probably time for a full clean/lube/adjust. Leicas are old fashioned design, need periodic maintenance.</p>

 

[bill poole]

<p>John:<br>

No, that's what's so mystifying. This is my only lens and stays on the camera. The three pics in sample two were take very quickly one after the other, yet only # 27 is affected. I taped up the back of the camera and had one clean roll. Then I taped it again and these pics are from that roll. And the tech could not find a leak in the foam. Very mystifying.<br>

Thanks for your thoughts - Bill</p>

[cpj]

<p>HI, <br>

It is a light leak but you may be looking in the wrong place for it. Remember that the way the film is exposed in the camera is upside-down and backwards to the way the image look on the slide or negative. So this leak is at the top, right, near the hinge of the door that you flip open when loading the roll. Now, if it only happened to this one roll, it could be that the film canister was defective in one spot, in which case the leak would repeat every 5th, 6th or 7th frame, depending on how much film had been used up.</p>

<p>Now, it is possible it is a light leak during the film processing, so the way to check that would be to process one completely blank, unexposed roll and process it with the same equipment or at the same lab. NEXT step is to set the camera on a tripod (or handheld is ok) and shoot a plain blue sky for a complete roll. Then when examining the negatives, check to see if the light leak repeats every so many frames at first and then increases (or decreases) the number of frames between the leak as you use up film.</p>

<p>The leak is small, but I am betting it is somewhere near the top, back, right edge of the hinge.<br>

Another check, is to expose just 10 frames--enough to get ONE light leak streak. Then let the camera itself sit in the sunlight for an hour with the back toward the sun. Process the film and look for light streaks on the remaining BLANK 26 frames. That again would prove a light leak coming through from the outside if they are SEQUENTIAL, as mentioned every 5th, 6th or whatever frame, and then changing and getting closer together and less and less apparent as you get toward the end of the unexposed part of the film.</p>

<p>Let me know how you make out.</p>

[bill poole]

<p>Some interesting and helpful ideas, CPeter. This has happened on numerous rolls and I have been using the same company to process all my film for a long time, so I think that eliminates development. I had missed that I should be looking for at frequency and spread of the affected images. Will analyze some rolls and take a look. Thanks for our thoughts. Bill Poole</p>

[frederick_muller]

<p>I had a similar problem when I bought an old Canon Model 7. It really was surprising to me how a light leak could manifest itself intermittently. I would get a whole lot of usable frames, then a handful of streaky ones, usually with the streak extending out of the frame and into the sprocket hole edges. I had all the seals replaced and haven't had a problem since.</p>

[knut_schwinzer]

<p>What about the strap lug on the right (wind) side? Is it still firmly boltet into the body, or can you move/turn it slightly?</p>

[SolaresLarrave]

One of my M6TTL bodies had a leak that showed up randomly but increasingly larger. DAG kept the camera for two

months, shot lots of film and couldn't find it. I ended up sending the camera to Leica in NJ for a refurbishing and that did

away with the problem.

 

I must admit, though, that I still had to send it back (under the repair warranty) twice, before the leak was fixed. It has

been working perfectly (knock on wood) for two years now.

[david_l3]

<p>I think it's coming around the shutter curtain from the lens side. My M6 leaks light similarly if bright light comes through the lens or open lens mount. I found the light leak coming under the shutter curtain, and it was very hard to find. Your pictures in low light would have the aperture fairly open. It's when the shutter is cocked, or not, I can't remember. Send it to DAG (dagcamera.com) for servicing the camera body.</p>

[Gus Lazzari]

<p>There isn't any foam in these.</p>

<p>The hinges never leak, just look at the design.</p>

<p>Knut and John S have the 2 best possibilities. </p>

<ol>

<li>William, do you use a strap?</li>

<li>Put the camera on "Bulb", swing up & open the back door, looking at the rear with the shutter open, shine a bright light at the back of the now visible shield. You can now inspect the two felt bans for condition, placement, and/or film chips.</li>

<li>David L, Francisco said DAG didn't fix it...</li>

</ol>

[bill poole]

<p>Thanks all.<br>

Knut: the strap lugs are locked solid -- see no chance of the leak being there.<br>

Gus: Yes, I use a strap, but as I say, the lugs seem secure. I made the inspection you suggested, but all seemed pristine to me -- not that that means a lot. <br>

It does seem that John S. may be right that it is the seal between the shutter curtains and the mask.<br>

At any rate, it seems clear that I need to send it out. Thanks again for the help and suggestions.<br>

Bill</p>

[jason]

<p>FWIW the leak is probably at the "plastic" bumpers on the sides of body, by the strap lugs.The flare will occur every 3~4 frames due to a space on take-up spool. Maybe the "bumper" is missing.I used tape..</p>

[bill poole]

<p>Jason:<br>

Well that is really interesting! I see a "bumper," as you describe it, above the lugs beneath the rewind crank, but none on the other side, beneath the film counter. The manual clearly shows there are supposed to be two of them. I will definitely tape the puppy up and test a roll. Thanks so much!<br>

Bill Poole</p>

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Hmmm... My camera had both bumpers. But if this is the solution to your problem, William, you'll be saving yourself a bit

over $300. Keep your fingers crossed...

[david j.lee]

<p>William, can you post a picture of the bumpers in your camera please? this might be helpful for all in the future.thanks a lot..!</p>

[frank_scheitrowsky1]

<p>With colour neg film, if the leak comes from the back, light has to travel through the orange mask of the film, so the light leak will appear orange.<br>

If the light leak appears whitish like yours, the leak is from the camera in front of the film emulsion.<br>

Further diagnosis can be made by noting if the light leak is contained within the film gate, or if it extends outside the film frame as in your example.<br>

As stated in a previous post, the image is formed upside down in the camera, so a light leak at the bottom of a frame as in your example, comes from the top of the camera.<br>

Good luck!</p>

[andrew_clark1]

<p>My M4 has the same problem. I also found a user on here that had the same problem with his M6. Youxin Ye told me to start using a lens cap, which I found annoying that he would say something like that. Both Leica NJ and Sherry said to bring it in, so I'll be taking it to Leica within the month, since they are only 10 mins from my job. The other user who had the problem said it took Leica NJ three times to fix it. I have the light leak in three areas, one of which extends beyond the frame of the image. Look at the top and center. The third leak didn't appear in this image, but comes up as a thin line.<br /> <img src="http://daytonadesign.com/problem2.jpg" alt="" width="333" height="500" /></p>

[john_newell2]

<blockquote>

<p>There isn't any foam in these.<br>

The hinges never leak, just look at the design.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There isn't any foam, but IIRC there are little plastic hinge-like seals. IIRC, the early M6 seals sometimes leak and were later redesigned.</p>

[William D. Lester]

<p>I had a friend with a similar problem. In his case it was the seal around the rewind crank.</p>

[bill poole]

<p>And the answer is (drum roll) or at least seems to be: Jason was right. I taped up where the bumper under the film counter should have been and shot a pristine roll of film. <br>

The bumpers, which are on both sides, seem to serve two purposes. They are about 1/4 inch by 3/8 inch and sit above the strap lugs. They cover two very small screws that seem to have some role in holding the top assembly on. So my guess is that they both keep light from invading around these screws and protect the camera from the rubbing of the strap. When I inspected the two screws where my bumper was missing, one seemed filled with a kind of sealing wax and the other one did not. My assessment at this point is that that is the screw that was not completely light tight.<br>

Per request, I will upload an image off the net that shows the bumpers on either end. My camera is like this, except that the bumper on the left -- below the film counter-- is missing.<br>

Thanks to Jason -- and to all-- for your help.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

[colin_elliott]

<p>"There isn't any foam in these".<br>

Does anyone know when Leica stopped using foam in the M6?<br>

E.g. Above s/n xxxxxx</p>

[kevin_omura]

<p>This might fall into the better late than never catagory. I stumbled upon this thread because I was looking for someone I knew way way back in the 80's also named Bill Poole. Don't think you are the same one though.<br>

I'll just mention that you can burn a hole in your shutter curtain if you happen to keep your lens uncapped. I did this on a shoot in Bermuda with my M6. The first clue was this slight whiff of something burning. Then reviewing my film which was all useless. At first glance with the shutter uncocked everything looked fine but when I cocked the shutter the nice burn hole suddenly became apparent. <br>

No I either keep my lens capped or point the lens into my body for shade.</p>