Low-light outdoor sports - what to buy next

[tom_spalding]

<p>I've done a lot of shooting kid sports (mostly daytime soccer and baseball) with this set-up - Rebel XTi, 70-200 f4 (usually w/ a 1.4x tele-extender until the light starts to dim), monopod. I own a 300 mm f4 IS but don't like changing lenses mid-event and prefer the flexibility of the zoom set-up, so I don't use it much. I also have a 430 EX flash.<br>

In the fall my son will start playing HS football - mostly late afternoon or night games. I know I can't shoot at night with what I have, even pushing the XTi to 1600 ISO. I'm considering one or more of the following: upgrading to 40D body and using XTi as a 2nd body (ISO 3200, faster AF, faster burst mode); replacing 70-200 f4 w/ f2.8; buying Sigma 120-300 f2.8; upgrading to a 580 EX flash.<br>

Anything else I should be considering? What's the best bang for the buck?<br>

Thanks in advance for your wise suggestions!</p>

[alexander_gisoldi]

<p>You definitely want a camera with higher ISO capabilities. I'm not that familiar with the 40D, but if it is good up to 3200 that's an improvement over the Rebel. A fast and long f2.8 zoom coupled with that better ISO capable body would also definitely improve things.</p>

[elliot1]

<p>It would be helpful to know your budget. I think you will see more of an improvement at higher ISOs with a 5D or 5D Mark II than you will with a 40D. If you can get close enough to the action, a 50mm and/or 85mm lens with your current camera or the new one will probably help the most. Shooting RAW and using really good image processing software will also help you greatly. Flash may not be useful or adviseable for night football.</p>

[nathan_meador]

Since you are considering the Sigma 120-300 f2.8 ($3000 +), I assume you have a pretty high budget. I would think that lens plus a canon 70-200 f2.8 might be too much overlap. The Canon might have better optics but you might prefer to have the added reach of the sigma. I shoot high school football with the 40D and a 200mm f2.8 lens, and often wish I did have something that went to 300mm, but can't afford it...yet. As to the flash, I don't find flash useful at all for night time football games, unless I'm taking pictures of players/cheerleaders on the sidelines. I need to be able to shoot at 1/400 or 1/500 if possible to freeze the action on the field. A 50mm or 85mm won't do much good to you unless you want to use it for pics of the players/cheerleaders on the sidelnes, or maybe fans in the stands.

[josepharmand]

<p>Although I have limited experience with HS Football, I have too much experience with HS Soccer, which will be very similar. Your first limitation is that HS stadiums have barely enough light to luminate the field for playing on, let alone taking photos. It's not only the dark, but the inherent moisture in the air in the fall that makes it that much darker. Watch the field and identify the patches of Real Estate that appear to get more concentrated light than others. Pray that good things happen in those pockets of lighted field.<br />I would not recommend the 5D series for this endeavor. Awesome camera, but not fast at all. With a limited to reasonable budget I would consider the following. Get the 40D, (used around $600) and the 70-200 f2.8 (used should be sub $1k) . Acquire a 24-70mm f2.8 (also about $1k) for your XTi.<br />Crank up the ISO on both, use Apperature Priority, and try to keep your shutter speeds above 1/500. use a monopod for the 40D/70-200mm set up and the XTi/ 24-70mm on a strap (BlackRapid.com is the bomb for aftermarket straps). 40D for action, XTi for drama and emotions. Shoot in RAW and use Canon's "Digital Photo Professional" (CD with the camera or available to download from CanonUSA with a valid Serial number from Canon) software to use their noise reduction tool, because there will be lots of noise at HS Stadiums. Time your shots, anticipate the action and fire away. It will still be tough. I have had amazing things get caught by my camera, but due to the lighting I have a very poor 'keeper' percentage at HS Stadiums. And loose the flash. A lot of places don't allow their use, Maybe on the XTi, but again just to capture the emotion and drama on the sidelines.<br />Good Luck</p>

[tom_spalding]

<p>Thanks for the thoughtful responses. I didn't mention it in the OP but I do have a 17-55 f2.8 to use for close-ups if I buy a 2nd body. Black Rapid strap looks like a great accessory.<br>

I do typically shoot in Aperture Priority mode, dropping below 1/400 only when I've exhausted other options (i.e. raised ISO, removed teleconverter). I haven't taken the plunge into shooting RAW and processing with DPP, but it looks like that will be necessary.<br>

Any thoughts on how useful the 3200 ISO setting is on the D40?</p>

[nathan_meador]

<p>I would suggest shooting in Manual rather than AP, that way you always have the shutter speed at your maximum possible setting. Faster is always better, unless you want to see blur in your photos. Set the aperture to 2.8, ISO to 1000 and shutter to 1/500. If that is too dark, raise ISO, lower shutter speed (in that order) until you get pics that are acceptable. You will almost always need to increase brightness in post. I agree that shooting RAW is best.</p>

[belman]

<p>If you are shooting at higher ISO settings, correct exposure will be important. Underexposed images at a high ISO results in excessive noise. I shoot night football with two 40Ds at 3200 ISO with a 70-200 2.8 on one and a 300 2.8 on the other. Use RAW to adjust in post and find good NR software. I use Noise Ninja with good results. My end results are for print and online publication and this setup works well. I also second the BlackRapid strap. It allows me to work with both hands on the tele and when needed, swing the 70-200 up for a one-handed shot whenever the action requires a fast change of FL.</p>

<p>Gary</p>

[elliot1]

<p>"Any thoughts on how useful the 3200 ISO setting is on the D40?"</p>

<p>I suggest you look at the various ISO ratings of cameras you are interested in here:</p>

<p>http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor/Camera-rankings</p>

<p> </p>

[vishi_anand]

<p>You already have 300mm f4 IS. What I would do is get a hot shoe flash. Cheaper one like 285HV or canon 540ez will do. Get a monopod and using L bracket and hose clamps from home depot ($5), install flash below the camera/lens on the monopod. Now use flash at 1/4 to 1/2 setting. You would need to shoot at 1/250 and you may get some ghosting depending on the ambient light. You would only be shooting at f4 and ISO800 when using flash so your lens should work. Problem with f4 lens would be slower focussing. And having Xti will also add to that slowness.<br>

I use 300mm f2.8 and my 1dmk2 for highs chool football but even that setup doens't give me nice shots without the flash as lighting is so bad at night time games.<br>

Here is a link to Dave Hoffman's site on how do it.<br>

<a href="http://www.theimageengineer.com/2008/07/night-football-with-flash/">http://www.theimageengineer.com/2008/07/night-football-with-flash/</a></p>

 

[philip_wilson]

<p>I shoot ice hockey in low light with a 5DII or 1V. The 5DII is clearly the best Canon for high ISO (it is very good up to 1600 and acceptable at 3200). The 1V has better AF in low light and this will be the problem with non-1 series bodies - especially if you go to lenses that are slower than F2.8. Based on the 5DII I would suggest that the D40 will be weak at 3200 ISO. By the way shutter priority allows you to keep a minimum shutter speed (this is why it exists) and is probably best for sports where the lighting varies a lot. For AF you need a USM lens, preferably F2.8 or faster and should either use one shot mode or AI Servo. AI Focus is useless as it is too slow - on almost all canon bodies you should select only the center AF point (on the 5DII I find that it helps to switch off the AF assist points in one shot mode but have them on in AI Servo). Unfortunately the difference between the 1 series Af and the cheaper bodies Af becomes mor significant in low light. Football is not a very fast sport so you should be OK with lower ISOs. If you are using F4, 1/250 and ISO 3200 you should be at EV 7. This is pretty dark - even for outdoor evening sports. For hockey I use either a 70-200 f2.8 (non-IS) or a 300 f2.8 IS. Full frame loses the benefit of the 1.6x crop but I like the bigger brighter viewfinder. I do not think that flash will help much as when you are close enough for it to make a difference you will probably have complaints as the flash interferes with players. I have used an 550 EX and while it solves the lighting problem I have been told by more than one official not to use such a bright light.</p>

[zzyzx_joshua]

<p>I checked with my Uncle who shoots a ton of sports for newspapers and teams. His recommendation is simple. Canon EOS 1DMkII body(used) and a 200mm 2.8 and an 85mm 1.8 lens combination. Use one on the MkII body and the other on your existing body so you have the choice on location. The 580EXII or older 550 for indoor flash work when needed.<br>

Per his experience the 1D series is head and shoulders above any of the 30/40/50D series for sports in so many ways.<br>

I know he shoots a lot of HS and college football at night, available stadium lighting and the results I have seen are very good. I asked about zooms and he told me one thing. If they work for you, use them. He prefers the single focal lengths. If it were me I would probably use a zoom but I haven't been shooting sports for 35 years like he has.(he is old and set in his ways)</p>