Canon 5D/Photoshop color space mismatch?

[cathyscholl]

<p>I am using a Canon 5D, shooting both raw and .jpeg<br>

The camera is set on RGB and my Photoshop is set on Adobe RGB.<br>

When I bring an image into Photoshop I get a color space mismatch warning that says:<br>

Embedded: Canon EOS 5D<br />Working: Adobe RGB (1998)<br>

<br />What is the EOS 5D profile if the camera is set to RGB???<br>

I'm not aware of any other profile that exists beyond RGB...are you?<br>

Thanks,<br>

Cathy</p>

[podstawek]

<p>Hi Cathy,</p>

<p>You probably set your camera to "sRGB" (supported by Canon 5D), and not "RGB". And sRGB is a different color space from Adobe RGB. Hence the warning, I guess.</p>

[ed_hurst]

<p>If you are using Adobe Camera Raw (Photoshop plug in) to convert the raw before bringing it into Photoshop proper, you can select the colour space at that stage, regardless of what the camera is set to. You can also do that in any other raw converter.</p>

<p>The JPGs made by the camera are inherently in the colour space you set.</p>

[tomwatt]

<p>Cathy, you can set your camera's color space to AdobeRGB using the in-camera menu if you are having a problem with this conversion. It will cause your camera's filenaming to change from "img_012345" to"_mg_012345".</p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>That's my point...<br>

My camera IS set to Adobe RGB and so is Photoshop. My files are titled mg...<br>

So what is the embedded Canon 5D colorspace and why the mismatch warning?<br>

Thanks for your help.</p>

[tomwatt]

<p>Adobe RGB... your Photoshop space is set to Adobe RGB 1998? Your camera should match that one. Mine does.</p>

[DickArnold]

<p> I have CS3, I go into edit then color settings, assign profile and convert profile and make them all read Adobe RGB. I don't know whether you are printing or making these for the web. Convert to sRGB if you are going to use the pictures on the web. Search for Andrew Rodney here on PN and read some of his stuff. He does a very good job of explaining color space. sRGB works for most things but as you get more fussy about colors Adobe RGB gives you a little more latitude and ProPhoto color space eliminates some high end clipping. Adobe RGB is a little dull on the web. You could put your camera on sRBB and set that in PS and be happy most of the time. If you get the warning just select retain the colorspace. It is a lot more complicated than it should be. I tried to make this simple. </p>

[DickArnold]

<p>Rodney does has a bit called color managment for the begginner/Adobe RGB or sRGB</p>

[Bill C]

<p>Cathy, you said you are shooting both raw and jpeg. Are you handling the raw files via DPP (Canon's Digital Photo Pro)? Also, is the exact name of the embedded profile "Canon EOS 5D"?</p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>Bill C,<br>

Yes, that's the exact name of the embedded profile.<br>

Someone told me that it's not a problem the files are Adobe RGB but the Canon RGB has some additional information...which I guess is why the<br>

color space mismatch warning comes up. Can't find this mentioned anywhere though.<br>

Not using DPP for the raw files...just Adobe.</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>When you get the warning check box, honor the embedded profile and let it open in that color space. <br>

Now go to Assign Profile and select "Adobe RGB (1998)". Does the image appearance change? IF so, then the process you're using for JPEGs is getting converted tot his Canon EOS 5D profile somewhere (DPP? Don't know, don't use it). If it doesn't change, then something somewhere is embedding Canon EOS 5D profile which IS Adobe RGB (1998) but with a real strange name. </p>

<p>JPEGs usually don't have embedded profiles from cameras but instead EXIF data describing the color space. Maybe DPP is altering that? You need to figure out if this Canon profile for JPEGs is something applied during processing outside the camera (and why), and if it's Adobe RGB or not. </p>

[DickArnold]

<p>Andrew, cathy, it's odd because I have a 5D and have never seen 5D for a color space. I, too, use photoshop and ACR for conversion. I have DPP and checked preferences under tools and you might look under printing preferences but that only shows Canon printer settings. Because I have a 5D I have checked ACR, CS3 and DPP and cannot find such a preference anywhere. I have the latest 5D mark one software. Perhaps you have a 5DII with different options. I am not familiar with Colormatch RGB. </p>

[DickArnold]

<p>To test Andrew's theory I took a RAW plus JPEG picture with my 5D which I don't usually set. I set up a deliberate mismatch and got the correct warning on both images on import to CS3. I correctly saw Adobe RGB from the camera against the Prophoto I had set in CS3. Never saw Canon 5D. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. </p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>I'm going to run the experiment Andrew suggested but in the meantime here is the exact quote from the only person so far who seems to be familiar with my issue:<br>

"Both are Adobe RGB but the Canon RGB has some proprietary information in it." <br>

Anyone want to take a guess as to what the proprietary information is and why no one else seems to be experiencing this same issue?<br>

I shoot in manual mode...don't know if that makes a difference.</p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>Also, FWIW I have a 5D...not the new 5DII</p>

[DickArnold]

<p>BTW I have firmware update 1.1.1 for the 5D. As of ten minutes ago that is the latest version. It enable 8MP and above CF cards</p>

[Bill C]

<p>Cathy,I dug into this a bit earlier today, and have some ideas. The naming convention, "Canon EOS 5D", sounds a bit like what I see on some Adobe forums regarding RAW or DNG formats, so I suspect it may have come from them, rather than from Canon. I don't work much with ACR (Adobe Camera Raw), but tried it on a machine. When I'm in the Camera Raw editing window, underneath the image is a listing of color space, bit depth, etc. If I click that line, then change to sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998), whichever I select is the one that will get embedded into the image file.<br>

<br />So my suspicion is that this is where your "wrong" profile is getting embedded. You could try changing the profile, and see what your options are. A little warning: ICC profiles have a name INSIDE of the file - it might be the same as the filename, or it might be different. So if you can't see a file with the name you're after, this might have something to do with it.<br>

<br />You asked about what might be the "proprietary information" in one of these files might be. Can't say exactly with your profile, but here's an example with two different sRGB profiles. The standard one uses a white point which correlates to a D65 illuminant (sRGB is defined as being D65). The other one, copyrighted by a camera company, has a different white point which correlates to D50. But they also include a formula for converting between white points. Why do it this way? All I can do is speculate, but maybe it had something to do with owning the copyright, or perhaps better control of the chromatic adaptation methods, etc.</p>

 

[cathyscholl]

<p>Bill C,<br>

Thanks for investigating. I've had out of town company for the past couple of days so tomorrow I'll start playing around with the info I'm getting from you,<br>

Dick, Andrew and the others. You could be right about the profile recognition coming from photoshop rather than the camera. I'll take a look.</p>

[DickArnold]

<p>It appears that my RAW files come into Bridge without a colorspace assigned, so what is set on the camera is not relavent. The color space is actually assigned after the files are moved to ACR. When I bring a JPEG into Bridge it has one of two color spaces assigned; sRGB or Adobe RGB.. With JPEG ACR does not assign a colorspace and the image retains that color space into PS. I can change it in PS. There is no RGB on my 5D camera menu. Just the two choices sRGB or Adobe RGB. That is why I cited the latest firmware change. Early 5D serial numbers started with a 1. Later 5Ds started with 2. Some significant mods were made for the two series particularly around the LCD and there have been some firmware changes since the body was introduced in 2005. DPP, which I don't use, I understand does some modifications to imported RAW images. I searched for a naming convention in Bridge which controls some ACR function but did not find anything. This is a good exercise because every time I get into one of these I wind up learning something. You have me stumped Cathy. </p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>I'm SO sorry! I just realized there is a potentially very important piece of information missing from my original question.<br>

I mentioned in the question that I am shooting both RAW and .JPEG but only now noticed that I (accidentally) omitted the fact that I only get the<br>

Embedded profile mismatch when importing a .JPEG into Photoshop. It doesn't happen with RAW images.<br>

That may be helpful to some of you who have been trying to help me! Hope I haven't made you knock your heads against the wall because of this. <br>

TO REPEAT...IT SAYS:<br>

Embedded Profile Mismatch<br>

The document _MG_ 1234.jpg (for example) has an embedded color profile that does not match the current RGB working space.<br>

Embedded: Canon EOS 5D<br>

Working: Adobe RGB (1998)<br>

What would you like to do, etc...</p>

[DickArnold]

<p>OK. So apparently your color space in JPEG is assigned in the camera as I stated above. The RAW color space is assigned when the file is imported from ACR to photoshop. If you go to your 5D menu you will find a listing for firmware. What version of of firmware to you have. The latest is 1.1.1. If not you need to upgrade it. You do that by going on the net and just searching for Canon 5d firmware. They furnish detailed instructions on how to download it. Dick</p>

[cathyscholl]

<p>Dick,<br>

So you think it's a firmware issue...<br>

I haven't upgraded firmware since I bought the camera.<br>

I have version 1.0.5<br>

I'll let you know if the situation is resolved once I upgrade.<br>

Thanks!</p>

[DickArnold]

<p>So also follow Andrews instructions and go to PS Edit>Assign Profile, pull down the menu after you have honored the embeded profile in the warning box and select the the one, probably, Adobe RGB, that closely matches what actually started with. As you make the changes you can actually see the image change slightly. Prophoto will make it brighter. The closest match then is no doubt what you have. At least you can use it to make acceptable pictures without much more worry about what you have. Dick</p>

[DickArnold]

<p>Cathy. I think it might be a firmware issue. I am guessing at likely causes but logic leads one that way. However, try Andrew's solution first, it's easier. BTW, I really like your pictures. Colors are great. If it were me and I was getting acceptable JPEG results I would live with it. Except, I think your LCD and your CF card capabilities will be better with the current firmware. Dick</p>

[Bill C]

<p>Cathy, I must confess that I initially thought you were running your files through a raw converter, then somehow embedding the profile yourself. Mainly because I'm pretty sure that the camera, by itself, is not embedding profiles.</p>

<p>But here's something odd - I tried a more modern Canon, shooting jpeg + raw while set to Adobe RGB(1998). Using an older version of Photoshop (7), no embedded profile is observed. However, the newer Photoshop CS3 says that there IS an embedded profile, specifically Adobe RGB (1998). So one Photoshop says that there IS, and another Photoshop says that there is NOT. I tried yet another piece of color managed software which also did NOT see an embedded profile. I still do not think that the profile is embedded; even the camera manuals say, with respect to Adobe RGB, "The ICC profile is not appended" (manuals include 40D, 50D, and 5D MkII). </p>

<p>So why does CS3 report an embedded profile? Don't know; I suspect CS3 is able to decipher some proprietary camera maker EXIF tags, but this is just guessing. Since Dick says he doesn't have the problem, using the same camera and CS3, perhaps the firmware upgrade will change the name and thus resolve your problem.</p>

<p>Out of curiousity, did this issue just start recently? If so, did you upgrade PS at the same time?</p>