First generation Nikon glass on new digitals

[keith_lubow]

<p>Hello,<br>

I have been seriously considering the purchase of a D40x or D60 because I have so much great NAI glass (and can get more for a very reasonable price).</p>

<p>With the D5000, now I am again considering forking over the dough...I am very tempted, but the focusing screen issue is a big turnoff.</p>

<p>I have no problem with manual aperture and no meter. My biggest problem will be the focusing screen that is designed for slow zooms making focusing accuracy spotty at the widest apertures (which I use a large portion of the time). Unfortunately, the D5000 does not have the option to install a low-light focusing screen.</p>

<p>I have used my NAI glass adapted to my Canon 10D. It works fine, but I miss having an accurate distance scale.</p>

<p>So, in effect, I'd be paying $750 just to have an accurate focusing scale, and would also lose metering ability (which, ironically enough, is retained on the Canon body but not on the Nikon body). Hardly seems worth it.</p>

<p>Nonetheless, I am interested in hearing anyone's experiences using the NAI glass on a Nikon digital body, and hopefully I can see some samples as well.</p>

<p>Has anyone hacked an AI digital body so it will take NAI glass? Can it be done? Older digitals are really cheap now, so that might be an option for me. Much cheaper to hack a D700 or D300 than to replace all my NAI glass with autofocus glass.</p>

<p> </p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Getting your glass AI-ed isn't terribly expensive, either. I think there are a couple of guys who do that regularly, if you don't mind parting with the lens for a bit.</p>

[kenfretz]

<p >Keith –</p>

<p >The low end bodies are ready to use just about any Nikkor lens except for ones that require mirror lock-up. The aperture sensing arm folds out of the way when you mount a NAI lens just like it did on the old top of the line film bodies. </p>

<p >As to focus, when in manual mode the electronic rangefinder works great. You get the focus in the ballpark and then make small adjustments until the green in focus indicator comes on in the viewfinder. I don’t know about the D5000 but I upgraded the focus screen in my D40x.</p>

<p >Someday I would like to have somebody study the mind of the Nikon marketing people, first they hobble the low end cameras to keep them from cannibalizing the expensive bodies, (aperture priority is turned off when a non-cpu lens is mounted on my D40x) and then they give you a capability that even the D3 doesn’t have.</p>

<p >By the way March 20, 2009 was the 50^th anniversary of the introduction of the Nikon F mount. I once read that there are over 500 different lenses in the Nikon system. </p>

<p >Ken</p>

<p > </p>

[keith_lubow]

<p>AIing my glass is NOT an option! :D</p>

<p>Thanks for the replies thus far.</p>

[dcphotography]

<p>You *could* just break the tab on the body that may break off you were to mount a non-AI lens but then that would mean no AF or AF-D lenses :P.</p>

[keith_lubow]

<p>David,</p>

<p>That is exactly what I was talking about in my last paragraph.</p>

<p>I am not worried about AF lenses being unusable. I am trying to avoid them, after all, hence the OP.</p>

<p>Although I would remove the tab (likely have it removed by a professional), not break it off.</p>

<p>I just wonder if the camera would still fire away, like the low-end bodies do, or if it would be "too smart" and sense that somethign was amok.</p>

<p>Also, very interested in seeing examples of this.</p>

<p>One more thing: I prefer the image qualities of old singly-coated, lower-resolution NAI glass over any of the new lenses. Yet another reason to try to use them.</p>

<p>As I just mentioned in another post, digital is a secondary medium for my pix. It is not worth it for me to invest in a bunch of new stuff. Been there, done that with nice EOS kit (1DIIN, etc). Sold most of it and went back to the good stuff. Kept the 10D backup and the 50mm 1.2L.</p>

[dcphotography]

<p>One of my friends has a D50 with a broken AI tab on the camera mount. It still works fine, although when he uses AF/AF-D lenses he needs put something in there to jam the AI tab so the camera thinks the lens is set to the minimum aperture.<br>

On the D200 and higher, the tab turns into a ring around the mount with a protrusion that contacts with the aperture ring on an AI lens. If you shave this off, you'll be able to mount pre-AI lenses without breaking the protrusion... which would already be broken. I don't see how the camera will sense that the tab/protrusion is missing.</p>

[keith_b1]

<p>You have correctly identified the big problem: focusing lenses by eye with the tiny, not-intended-for-eye focusing finder screens on the 'lower end' cameras. I had a D200, the lowest of the Nikon DSLRs with pro features, and finally dumped it after 6 months due to the hassle + inaccuracies of eye focusing on that model, and the low-contrast finder optics made at least partially of plastic. I tried the offered add-on focusing magnifier(plastic) but it was of poor quality. Also, one other note: The distance scales on Nikon, and most other lenses intended for reflex camera use, are notoriously inaccurate...though, through trial and error, one could make one's own scribe marks on the barrel to improve the accuracy of zone focusing. tough road ahead...if you wish to take it. Good luck.</p>

[andylynn]

<p>Keith, as Keith said, the viewfinders on these cameras are tiny and on the D40/60/5000 they're mirror (not prism) with a pretty crappy screen. The better DX cameras have better (but still small) finders. KatzEye will sell you a replacement focusing screen with split+donut focus aid but the finder is still small and there's still no meter.</p>

<p>I'd say, if you want digital, seriously consider either investing in a reasonable film scanner or find a decent shop that does it, and keep the NAI lenses on a classic film camera where they belong. Have you tried the new Ektar 100 scanned? It's crazy good, and you can usefully get 20+ MP out of it.</p>

[tobey_bilek]

<p>I put NAi glass on a D40 all the time including a Leica bellows so I can use their lenses for close up. I do not ever recall a photo being spoiled by being out of focus.<br>

1/iso at F16 works perfectly for digital just as it does for film. Honesty it works better than Nikons meters.</p>

<p>If you photograph sports, this is not the way to go, but for landscape, nature, close up is is a non issue. </p>

[christiaan_phleger___honol]

<p>Why is Ai'ing not an option? Not that difficult, really. Much cheaper, easier and extends the usefulness of the lens. <br>

I wouldn't be calling some of those older Nikkors "Lower Resolution", some of them are Pretty Sharp, but you knew that. <br>

Most of what people are calling 'single coated' Nikkors often have other layers of coating on internal elements. <br>

BTW, D3 and many many former NAI lenses, either factory converted of self converted. Not hard. <br>

Which lenses were you thinking of using? </p>

[keith_lubow]

<p>Christian, thanks for your reply. I won't cut up my beautiful old glass. No way in hell. Like I said, I'd rather modify a Nikon body to take the glass than the lenses to fit on Nikon bodies. These lenses' primary use is and always will be on my Nikon Fs and F2s, and so it will remain even though I want a better digital right now. The glass is beautiful and has given me years of service on many thousands of shots. If anything, I'd buy AId lenses before doing that.</p>

<p>I have 24 2.8, 28 3.5, 35 1.4, 35 2.0 (my favorite), 50 1.4 (my second favorite), 50 micro, 55 1.2, 85 1.8, 105 2.5, 135 3.5, 300 4.5. I had a 200 4.0 but got rid of it, as it was too soft for a lot of things, and I wanted an extra stop. I use Canon FD 200 2.8 instead. (One of my most used lenses is a 200mm.)</p>

<p>Tony, glad to see someone else seeing the benefits of doing this. The lack of meter is not really an issue. I usually use variations off of sunny 16, or an incident meter most of the time. I don't even bother putting batteries in my cameras, as I think in-camera reflected meters are worse than an educated guess.</p>

<p>The focusing problems come at wide apertures. The focusing screens on AF cameras typically only show you the D of F at f/2.8 or so, even if your lens is faster. Thus if shooting wider than f/2.8, things can look in focus when they are not. I would definitely be interested to learn more about the aftermarket options that show less D of F, like the current Canon S screens, or the old Canon FD F screen.</p>

<p>The Nikkors definitely have a different character than any of my other glass. They are lower contrast and lower resolution than my FD S.S.C. or EOS lenses. The look is very reminiscent of my LTM equipment; a bit more "graphic" than newer lenses. Less detail in the shadows (good in my book), lower contrast (also good in my book), unique rendering of the out of focus areas, though perfectly razor sharp. (Sharpness and resoultion are two different things. What I love about them is that they are sharp, yet low resolution.) I know from using them on the 10D that this translates to digital no problem. The pix I take that way look different than any other digital pix I take.</p>

<p>For sports, I used a 1DIIN or my friend's D2H. I don't really shoot that anymore, though. I am looking at this option as a way to take "fun" digital pix that will always remain in electronic format, and to create portfolio shots for artists and do other commercial work. I currently adapt this glass to my 10D for these things, but it is becoming more and more often that the 6 Mpix won't cut it.</p>

[greg_alton]

<p>I don't think that AI'ing your lenses will do anything to the glass at all - nor should it affect using it on older cameras. So there is really no downside, as long as you can get it done well. (Apologies if I've missed something)</p>

[roland_vink]

<p>Keith, the D40, D40X, D60 and D5000 can accept pre-AI lenses without modification to the camera or lens. These cameras have no AI tab, and they have a push-in minimum aperture switch, not the sliding switch found on the D50/70/80/90, so there is nothing to prevent pre-AI lenses from fitting.</p>

<p>I don't think the viewfinders are too much of a problem, I have used manual lenses on the D50 and managed to focus accurately. If focusing accurately is difficult, you can always "focus bracket" to ensure at least one shot is focused. Good luck!</p>

[dcphotography]

<p>Greg Alton, regardless, it is still cutting up part of the lenses. I think Keith wants to keep his non AI lenses untouched (other than normal wear & tear).</p>

[keith_lubow]

<p>Thank you for the responses. Perhaps the solution is simply to stick with Canon and invest in a higher-quality adapter. Then I can use them on any body; low or high end, without modification.</p>

<p>Roland, I was aware of the models that allow mounting of NAI glass, and have personally experienced the issue of focusing accuracy at apertures wider than f/2.8, both on my Canon and on a friend's D40.</p>

<p>It seems this is the one case where Nikon backwards compatibility does not apply all that well.</p>

<p>Again, the lenses will not be AId. I am not cutting them up! They are my babies, and would only need to serve on digital about 5% of the time. They've made it 40 years as is, and I respect that! :D</p>

[sexgun]

<p>I've got a D40 with a cheap split-rangefinder screen (not Katz Eye) that cost about $30. The split rangefinder is a little off center, but other than that it works just fine for manual focusing. I've been using all my non-AI, AI'd and AIs lenses with them. For metering, I use a Sekonic L-358. I prefer incident metering to just about any in-camera meters anyway, with the possible exception of the F5's meter.</p>