jeff_keplinger Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>Besides his hair through her fingers, something's missing. Shot w/ -1.0 fill-in flash. Just trying to improve whether initial shot or PP. Thanks.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bisom Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>Let me say that it's a very nice shot that I am sure the client will be very pleased with. From a professional standpoint, the use of on camera fill turned it into a snapshot. Soft fill from camera right position would have been more desirable, virtually eliminating the hard flash shadows there are now. I would have liked to have seen a faster shutter; the dramatic shift of her hair from sharp to motion blur seems out of place. To really go over the top would have to placed a 2nd flash opposite the fill (camera left somewhat behind the couple) to give them a hint of rim lighting.... maybe even gel the flash for a warmer effect- we want the right side of her face to be brighter. Attached is my PS version. </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn_mertz Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>good photo.<br> The quick fix is retouch the hair, and toss dark vignette around the image. <br> If you could go back in time and shoot it again and had enough time resources you could improve it by:<br> 1 rip the flash of the camera and put it on a stand way (also some diffusion of the flash would be helpful) off to your left in front of you lighting up the right side of her face instead of the left also it would create a rim light around him and maybe a fill card to your right to soften shadows.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>Agree about knocking down the glare on her skin (don't forget the ears). That very effectively reduces the impression of direct flash.</p> <p>Not crazy about the warming in Mike's suggested edit. You risk getting some odd looking orangey blotches. I suppose those could be retouched with a hue replacer brush, but her original skin color looks okay to me.</p> <p>The tufts of his hair between her fingers doesn't bother me at all. But I like messy hair. Probably also a reflection of my laziness regarding retouching minor details.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frolickingbits Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>You captured a really nice moment there, which is one of the harder skills to learn. I agree that an off camera flash with an umbrella or softbox would be much nicer light-the lighting is too even from edge to edge of this shot-there should be more light fall off around the edges to draw attention to her face and hand on his head. The green polo shirt the guy is wearing kind of bugs me-I would select that and change the color. I would also suggest leaving more open space to the right hand side of the photo-I'm presuming this is a crop, so if you have more of the background, I would leave it-the crop feels too tight to me.<br> I don't usually do such heavy handed editing, but I do think the blur on this helps direct the attention to where it should be.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francie_baltazar Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>This is a lovely moment - however, I think techiquely it is off - the flash is too harsh and the shadows are to strong. It also is too cool for a sunset - which should be warm.<br> When you took the photo you had it on pattern meter - this is a problem because it is going to take in all of the scene. You also use the flash to light the whole scene instead of using it for fill as it is shot at 1/60 - you shot on apperture priority which I am not sure why you would choose that for this scene.<br> When i shoot something like this where you have low light - I meter for the image without anyone in it and without flash. An easy way to do this is put it on P and see what the camera gives you - if you like us those setting if not move the settings from there. Then I use those setting and fill the flash - in this case it would have been good to get the flash off the camera and use it camera right. <br> Also I would have shifted them a bit so the sun was between them and you could at least get his profile.<br> Here is my PS down and dirty fix - warmed it up - removed / softened shadows - enlarged the sun just a bit...</p> <div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
francie_baltazar Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>oh one more thing I did - I took the flash glare off of her face so that she is not glowing</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p ><strong><em>"Besides his hair through her fingers, something's missing" </em></strong><em ></em></p> <p > </p> <p ><em>No. Not “mi<strong>ssi</strong></em><em>ng” -</em><strong> </strong>it i<em>s what is there: the harsh shad</em><em><strong>ow</strong></em><em>. </em></p> <p ><em>I agree with Mike Bisom’s first statement.</em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em><strong>Technical:</strong></em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>To expand – you are beyond the point of the golden hour (in time) where the Flash is the fill, it has now become the Key and about five to ten minutes before you took this shot (a guess form the position of the sun on the horizon) you should have switched from direct, to bounce Flash. Especially considering the position of the sun in the Framing (i.e. as direct backlight and not side light) </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>I agree also the Tv was too long at 1/60, her windswept blurred hair looks out of place</em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em><strong>Artistic:</strong></em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>The hair through the fingers doesn’t worry me a bit.</em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>I like the square crop – square is underutilized IMO – it has good emphasis here.</em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>I would not move the camera angle to have more profile of the male instead of this image, but have one “as well as”. </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>As a one piece her intensity holds the image, there is no need for his participation in any degree greater than what is captured. </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em><strong>Post Production:</strong></em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>On my monitor the skin tone of the Female looks fine and is natural in the original and there is enough overall warmth in the sky – all the others look artificial. </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>I would keep the original skin tone and just kill the shine only. In this regard all the colour / tone alterations are attempting to correct the effect of the direct Flash when diffused Flash was require din the first inst and thus far IMO none have succeeded.</em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>I don’t have an alternative at hand to offer – I am not sufficiently skilled in PS to do so without playing with it a while. </em></p> <p ><em> </em></p> <p ><em>Whatever the work was Francie did, toremove the harsh Flash Shadow, I would do that too. </em></p> <p > </p> <p >WW </p> <p > </p> <p > </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Taylor Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>The on camera flash really isn't working here for me.<br> I would've turned them around and used the nice light as a source and got a wider shot, probably showing both their faces. But that's just me, there are other solutions to this situation.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>I like what you were going for in this image. I'm OK with the back of the guy's head, it features the engagement ring and she's prettier. I would have taken some shots of them in a similar pose profile but that's also a different shot. Shooting them from the other side loses the sunset which is a major subject of this image...which would make that a different shot as well. I don't think it's fair to critique a shot for not being a completely different image.</p> <p>As usual, I'd like a little more DOF and a faster shutter speed. Like others have already said, the flash is too harsh, dialing it down to balance with the ambient would have taken care of the shadows and the glare. However, I don't think flash was the best tool for this situation. IMO, people on this forum frequently get stuck on the question of flash or no flash and seem unaware that there are other tools in the bag (or that should be in your bag). In this case I would suggest a reflector. I'd have taken 3 or 4 images with the gold side and another couple with the silver. The other neat thing with a reflector is that it is often the perfect modifier and it's easy to adjust by eye.</p> <p>Here's my quick standard pp treatment of the image. With more time it's possible to knock down the glare on the gals skin but you get the general idea. Thanks for posting the image and braving a C&C. Good luck.</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betty_lowrey Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>I'd do it in a vintage B&W with a vingette to give focus to the couple.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_swan1 Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p>Nice composition and emotion, but I have to say, my eye went straight for the hard shadow on her right shoulder. I love that you can see her ring, but I feel it could've been a better show if you could've gotten the groom's eyes into the shot somehow, too.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted May 28, 2009 Share Posted May 28, 2009 <p><em>"I'd do it in a vintage B&W with a vingette to give focus to the couple." - Betty L.</em><br> <em></em><br> Seems counter-intuitive to me to do a sunset image in B&W but perhaps you're on to something. Why don't you go ahead, try it out, and post it?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilambrose Posted May 29, 2009 Share Posted May 29, 2009 <p>I find it an awkward picture.</p> <p>The lighting makes it look like a P&S snapshot. There's inadequate contrast due to underexposure. The composition makes it look like the man is extremely short. The only thing in focus is the back of the man's shirt. (I know you were aiming for the ring, but it's too small in the image. So the eye naturally follows to the most significant focused area). And the sunset theme isn't working (the sun was the last thing I noticed) and is in any case perhaps too cliched to be interesting.</p> <p>All in all, probably not an image I'd keep.</p> <p>If you were doing it again you'd need a different vantage point to frame the couple more strongly. If you're going for a 'hand in hair with ring' shot I suggest making that the clear subject of the image by shooting closer and letting the faces go out of focus. If you're going for an emotion shot, then I'd suggest keeping the woman's eyes in clear focus, and letting the hand go out of focus. Ideally, the latter would be coupled with slightly different positioning to show more of the man's face. The one thing you don't want in focus is his shirt, as it's peripheral to the story and the image.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_keplinger Posted May 29, 2009 Author Share Posted May 29, 2009 <p>I would like to thank EVERYONE for their comments and critiques. One can only learn to improve with the good suggestions received here. A. Davis, I really like your dreamy rendition of the image. Thanks again to everyone.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
art_tatum Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 <p>ALL the PS tweaks that I have seen on this post have made a not-so-good image look soooooooo bad. You tweakers need to lighten your touch as they are all too heavy handed. Because you can, you do?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 <p>Art, how about you show us how it's done and post it?</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 <p>Well, this one isn't easy. But not impossible. With the full sized file (hopefully a RAW file), something could be done.</p> <p>Question is at what point do you exercise the lost art of "editing" ?</p> <p> </p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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