How do you rate other's photos?

[acute]

<p>I tend to rate very high. But there is an obvious reason: I like to rate photos that impress me. I don't write negative comments to photos I don't care about. So obviously, my ratings are always high. Why should I go and make negative comments or give poor ratings for pictures I don't like? How do you rate photos?</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p><em>Why should I go and make negative comments or give poor ratings for pictures I don't like?<br /></em><br />The other photographer has submitted the image for ratings, not for praise. By being honest, you're doing what the photographer has asked. It's not cruel or a bad thing to simply say (via the ratings you leave) that you think an image is only average in its aestheics or originality. <br /><br />If you still can't bring yourself to leave those numbers, then don't rate anonymously through the "Rate Photos" system, and instead click on the image and visit it in the member's portfolio. There, you can leave a rating as appropriate <em>and</em> you can leave a comment about how, for example, you found the photographer's idea to be very original, but think that the camera motion blur or poor focus or under exposure is robbing from its aesthetic potential. Or mention how you are struck by the technical excellence of the camera work, and hope that the photographer starts to apply the same level of care and time to the narrative elements in the images, so that you can soon praise the originality as highly as you have the use of lens and lighting technique. A "negative" reception to an image isn't a bad thing if it's offered honestly. The truth is never insulting. <br /><br />The question is, which is worse: a photo that gets no ratings because everyone is being coy and not wanting to say what they really think... or a photo that gets only praise from those that happen to like it, while the people who dislike it or find that it could have been better if more carefully created... remain mute? When all of the negative feedback is self-silenced, the photographer who has asked for ratings is left with a distorted sense of how their image was received by those who came across it. I'm happy when I get ratings that include 3's and 4's ... they focus my mind.</p>

[stamos]

<p>"The truth is never insulting"<br />Truth may hurt.</p>

[mark_chartrand]

<p>Andrew,</p>

<p>I do not rate photographs. I find it serves no purpose.</p>

<p>I critique photographs that I feel I can improve. My purpose is to point out some things I think the photographer could do, either in shooting or "printing", that will improve the photograph. If I can point out some things that I feel the photographer did well, I will do that. I try not to critique a photograph that I can't find something to improve. Therefore, I could comment on almost all photographs.</p>

<p>It really is quite a simple process. Point out what I think was done well and point out what I think could be improved -- and give an explanation of why it is good and how it can be improved.</p>

<p>Doing anything else would be a waste of my time and the photographer's time.</p>

<p>Mark</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p><em>Truth may hurt.<br /></em><br />You cannot be hurt by the truth about your photographs unless you have set yourself up for that pain by sustaining and investing in an <em>untruth</em> about your own work, and use that untruth as a foundation for your self esteem. This is made worse by receiving only casual praise and never honesty. "The Emporer's New Clothes" comes to mind.<br /><br />Who would <em>not</em> want to know that something they thought was highly original is, in fact, something that's a cliche and has been seen a million times? How is that message - as seen by an "average" rating for originality - hurtful? I know that I have very few images - perhaps one or two - that even <em>approach</em> real originality. I would feel patronized if my very average stuff were referred to as highly original, and would be perplexed by people who would rate something plainly average in that regard as being highly original.<br /><br />When everything is a 7/7, nothing is.</p>

[stamos]

<p>Matt,<br>

maybe truth does not hurt you but truth may hurt other people.<br>

Different people have different opinions, different characters, different feelings, different rating styles. I respect yours though I have different. Regards, Stamoulis.</p>

[AJHingel]

<p>I don't !</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>My point, Stamoulis, is that if you decide to put your work up here and <em>deliberately</em> request other anonymous people from all over the world and from every possible background to rate your images, you can't possibly get your feelings hurt. These are strangers! If you only want people who like you, who know you, and who think like you do to tell you only what you <em>want</em> to hear about your photographs, then it's simple: just don't use the ratings system! Stick with showing your work to friends and family (though hopefully at least some of one's friends and family are kind enough to be truthful).<br /><br />I don't see how this (requesting ratings) is any different than hanging your work on a wall in a public space. All sorts of people will walk by. Some will like the work, many will not. It's not a question of everyone having the same standards, but truth is truth. If someone doesn't find a work to be original, that's the truth! <em>That person</em> doesn't find the work to be original.<br /><br />How could anyone's feelings be hurt by knowing what someone else thinks? Either they don't consider that person's opinion to be valuable (in which case your feelings can't be hurt because you don't value that opinion anyway), or your <em>do</em> consider that person's opinion to be valuable - in which case your feelings can't be hurt because you are grateful for the valuable opinion.<br /><br />Either way, there's never any reason to feel hurt.</p>

[think27]

<p>How do I rate photos......</p>

<p>7 is perfect - no flaws and extremely strong in both asthetics and originality. </p>

<p>6 is excellent but missing either originality or has a very slight flaw in composition or the concept falls a bit short</p>

<p>5 is very good - This would be a great shot but maybe a slight technical flaw or an overdone shot with regard to originality - or a slight flaw in composition etc..</p>

<p>4 is not a bad shot but not exciting, or very original or has some flaws but is still a pretty good image... I like it - but there are some clear problems</p>

<p>3 - just ok - not a disaster but nothing special - and/or clear problems technically</p>

<p>2 - Needs a lot of help - quite a few flaws</p>

<p>1- horrible - unsalvagable - terribly amatuerish</p>

[freewolf]

<p>Andrew, I have to agree partially with both Matt and Mark on this. My biggest frustration with the ratings system, however, has to do with what I believe Matt (surprisingly) missed when he said...</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>The other photographer has submitted the image for ratings, not for praise.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In an ideal PNet world, this would be true. But I've found that there are those whose feelings DO get hurt simply because they HAVE indeed submitted their photos for praise through the ratings system. I'd have to say that if their feelings are hurt by low ratings or "negative" critique, they've asked for it by not working within the spirit of the site, but by attempting to turn their little corner of it into a gushing mutual admiration society. Is this what you're proposing, Andrew?</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Why should I go and make <strong>negative</strong> comments or give poor ratings for pictures I don't like? [Emphasis added]</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Have you thought about the alternative of making <strong>constructive</strong> comments to those who would really appreciate them? My real frustration stems from the fact that there seem to be precious few who actually will take the time to constructively comment on beginner-level work or explain either their high or low ratings of a given image. As a photography noob, I post my shots here knowing that they'll be viewed beside some of the finest photography on the planet. How on earth could I realistically be searching for praise or high ratings? I'm searching for one of those fine photographers (or at least a few who've been doing this longer than me) to point out shortcomings in my shots and solutions for them that I haven't the experience yet to see for myself.</p>

<p>I rate photos as honestly as I can given my limited level of experience with photography, and as often as time allows, I include comments or critiques on the specific strengths or weaknesses that I find in them. If I don't feel "qualified" by experience to offer meaningful comment, I don't rate the photo. On the rare occasion that I see a shot that just blows me away, I say so as I add it to my favorites. But in no way do I find myself interested in joining the "another great masterpiece, beautiful my very good friend" backslapping crowd that you seem to be advocating, as I find there is really little specific photography info to be gained there.</p>

[mark_chartrand]

<p>Keven,</p>

<p>Points well taken, but don't berate yourself. Those long time photographers and "experts" may be able to give some technical advice that you can't give at this point, but your opinion is just as valid as theirs. Whether you like a photograph is your opinion. It may effect you in some way or not. It might make you happy or make you sad -- or you just don't understand it -- maybe you don't like it, but you don't know why. This is important for photographers to hear, too. Many others will be thinking the same thing, but just don't want to bother (or are too embarrassed) to say so. Most people who look at our photographs are not "big time" photographers. They are ordinary people who will judge our photographs as to whether they like them or don't like them -- without a whole lot of photographic background. </p>

<p>Take and give opinions when and where you can. Learn from those opinions. Better from someone here than a customer! </p>

<p>Mark</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p><em>My biggest frustration with the ratings system, however, has to do with what I believe Matt (surprisingly) missed when he said...<br /></em><br />You caught me, Kevin! I was being just a little bit passive-aggressive, there. Maybe a little coy, too. I'd like to steer that system more towards its ideal use, not away from it.<br /><br />Of course a lot of people <em>do</em> submit their images in hopes of a friendly attaboy, and there's nothing wrong with that, per se. They just have to realize that not everyone uses the ratings system that way, and that some try to be a little more objective about it, and use critique messages for the warm and fuzzy comments, instead. I find that the toxic nature of too-easily-lavished praise is much worse for a photographer than whatever fleeting discouragement might accompany a more sober, tell-it-like-it-is response. The simplest thing to do, though, is to remove all ambiguity from the situation, and just submit for critques only. But that will cut down on image visibility - for better or worse. </p>

[gordonjb]

Anyone who offers up careful and considered opinion irregardless of their actual number of years in photography or their self perceived lack of knowledge, is doing a service both to the person asking for critique as well as to themselves. Your own photography will benefit from the study of other peoples work. Often the act of articulating what you like or dislike about an image teaches you something you can take away and apply at a later time. Being a good critic does not make you a good photographer but it will sharpen your eye and your critical thinking, both of which are assets which will serve you well when you are behind the lens.

 

As for experience; all but a few of us at this site will have no trouble finding plenty of far more experienced and/or more talented photographers at PN when we look around the pages. We cannot all rely on a few diligent experienced members such as Mark to carry the load.

 

I don't rate but I do try to offer critique. These days I tend to offer it rather selectively because I hate wasting my time and the current critique forum contains too many people who have no interest whatsoever in critique. Irregardless of whether you are a brilliant profession photographer or a hack such as myself , it still takes substantial time to evaluate a photo and offer up opinions or suggestions.

[tonmestrom]

<p><em>"The truth is never insulting"<br /> Truth may hurt.</em></p>

<p>Essentially you´re right Stamoulis although I have to say I agree with Matt. The best comment-critique is honest and motivated. There is too much unwarranted praise floating around as it is. Telling people they´ve done a good job when in fact they haven´t is perhaps the worst insult of all.</p>

<p>As far as rating is concerned I stopped doing that a long time ago. Don´t ask for them either.</p>

[stamos]

<p>Ton I think we agree.</p>

[mt4x4]

<p>I like critiques, but not so much ratings. Ratings don't tell me a whole lot about how I can improve, or what I have done right. The critiques I have gotten have been extremely helpful, I am very thankful for those who take the time to write them.<br /> <br /> Unfortunately though, it seems that photos posted for <em>critique only</em> get viewed less. Not sure why this is, or if I am even correct about it...I could be mistaken, but it is something I have heard on more than one occasion from other PNETers.<br /> <br /> I realize that I can always ask individual PNET users for critiques, but is this ok? I mean I feel like it would be unfair to put the burden on others to critique my work when I feel that I don't have the experience to return the favor and critique theirs. Any thoughts on this?<br /> <br /> I also agree that sometimes taking criticism can be difficult and it is only natural to feel a little bit defensive. But in reality, if you really want to improve your work isn't it necessary? I truly appreciate criticism of my work, especially when it give me more to think about before I snap the shutter.</p>

[gordonjb]

Back in the dark ages, when I was studying photography full time, we had a darkroom teacher who gave new depth to the concept of brutal honesty. I was an adult student returning to college but I swear some of the kids in that class looked like they were about to burst into tears some weeks. One thing that was certain was that everyone put their best effort into the weekly submissions for his class and it showed. He consistently got the best submissions of any class I attended. If you were short on time and had to go light on your effort for a submission, you made certain it was not for that class. I believe I learned more from listening to that instructor dissect my own work as well as everyone elses than I did in any other class. If you cannot take criticism then you miss out on a lot of learning opportunities.

 

As for asking specific people for opinion, I prefer generally to seek out people whose work I think I can learn from and who seemed to he honest and helpful. I try to comment on their work in the hopes that they will take a look at my work some time. I like to get feedback from anyone with a keen eye and an honest attitude. In the end I could care less if they have a portfolio online or whether they have been at it ten years or ten months. So long as the person is not blowing smoke up my ass, I are going to know something more about how my photo is being percieved after I read their comment than I did beforehand.

 

In my opinion returning the favour is not about being experienced or otherwise qualified. I was recently asked to comment on a series of portraits from a studio shoot. I qualified my response with the information that I rarely do this type of photography and then proceeded to look through the images and tell the person what I saw. What seemed to work , what I liked and did not like about the portraits. I do not think anyone needs to be bashful about having an opinion, we all know what we like and don't like and if we think about it a moment we can usually come up with some reasons for our likes and dislikes. I have so far never personally experienced anyone going off on me for having an opinion on their work. ... well actually one person but he was an odd sod who went off on anyone if it was later at night, he was high enough and he happened to have his computer switched on.

 

Even when people do not agree with my assessment and they often will not they at least seem genuinely pleased that someone took the time to comment and in most cases they hopefully take something of use away from the exchange. A long-winded way of saying, suck it up, stick your neck out and tell someone whose work you like what you think of one of their photos. I'm betting they will thank you for the effort and possibly reciprocate. If this happens often enough you end up with numerous people whose opinions you can trust and utilize to sort out issues you find yourself in need of advice on. It all has to start somewhere.

[mikeoday]

<p><strong>Motivation:</strong></p>

<p >Of course some people’s feelings are hurt by low ratings or frankly stated negative criticisms – that’s just human nature.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >I like almost every aspect of the community that is PN. I like that it is inclusive of all people from around the world with extremely different backgrounds and life experiences. To expect that all these people should share a common purpose in submitting images for critique/rating is I believe misguided. Furthermore, to expect that this diverse group should share the same levels of self esteem and resistance to negative feedback is I believe likewise mistaken.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >For what it is worth, I submit images because I like to share the results of my hobby with others. The more people who see my images the happier I am. I am always happy to receive constructive suggestions and, given that visibility on the site is largely dependent on the number of ratings, I am happy to receive any rating (low or high). </p>

[mikeoday]

<p><strong>Ratings:</strong></p>

<p >When rating other’s images I take into account the descriptions on the pull down menu of the ratings dialog. That is:</p>

<p > </p>

<p >1) very bad</p>

<p >2) bad</p>

<p >3) below average</p>

<p >4) average/fair</p>

<p >5) good</p>

<p >6) very good</p>

<p >7) excellent</p>

<p > </p>

<p >And I calibrate these based on the following assumptions:</p>

<p > </p>

<ol type="a">

<li >Average means: average photo taken by average hobbyist</li>

<li >Most hobbyists will only submit their better/best images so the typical image submitted by the average hobbyist will be above average</li>

<li >‘Below average’ then is a very low rating. It means that the better/best images submitted by a particular individual is worse than the average snap from an average hobbyist. (I don’t think it helps such a person to give them this message. A constructive criticism is a far better way to give guidance at that level of skill/experience.)</li>

</ol>

<p >Given the thousands of images submitted daily and the impossibility of rating them all. I tend to rate only the images I like (and understand). </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Taking all the above into account. My typical rating lies between good and very good and never lower than average/fair.</p>

 

[jgalyon]

<p><em>"<strong>I</strong> like to rate photos that impress me".</em> <strong>I</strong><em> don't write negative comments that<strong> I</strong> don't care about". Why should <strong>I</strong> go and make negative comments or give poor ratings for pictures<strong> I</strong> don't like"?</em><br>

I don't know if your "why" is a rhetorical question...or you're really in need of an answer...whichever, the answer to your question can be found within your own comments. Count the number of times you use the word <strong>"I"...</strong>and consider the context of it's use... and it's obvious...at least it is to me. You show no interest in offering comments/critiuques/ratings that might serve to help your fellow photographers improve their work, but instead...you're focused on what <strong>"I" </strong>can get out of it. If your own enjoyment and gratification is all you're here for...that's your choice. But I can tell you this...if that's the case, you're missing a lot. Many of the worst photographs you'll view on this site come from some of the nicest people you'll ever meet. If you continue to rate and comment based on the criteria that a photograph must be something that you like/care about/ or that impresses you ...you'll never meet these people, much less have an opportunity to help them. Just a thought...</p>

<p><em></em><br>

<em></em></p>

[jgalyon]

<p>Andrew: p.s. - it seems a rather odd thing that you're concerned with this issue since you've only rated 19 photos in exactly 5 months. Just an observation...</p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>I rate by the number system, and try to leave some comments.</p>

<p>I try to leave comments that suggest possible improvements, either in the photo, or based on the photo. Some of the photos are so good, I might have to think for awhile before I come up with some suggestions. If the photographer submitted for critique with a desire to improve, maybe I can nudge him in the right direction. If he hates what I have to say, then maybe that will outline what he doesn't want to do.</p>

<p>Some of the photos have been real brain busters. So, sometimes, I will say, Okay, this is a good shot, but there could be other photos from a different viewpoint, or showing a subset of the photo as a subject, which would also be good photos. Based on the image, I'll try to specify; maybe this can help a photographer's visualization process for either making the photo, or its display, or doing something like it.</p>

<p>In a lot of cases, it seems to me that the photo quality appears to be so high, I wonder what this person is doing by submitting it for critique. This can be particularly true for photographers who have a portfolio of obviously good photographs! What on earth could make them feel indifferent about the quality of their photo to the point that they need suggestions for getting it improved? They must know they've already done a good job; yet, I guess it must be human nature; sometimes they'll submit it for critique anyway.</p>

<p>The people with the strong portfolios; they are the hardest to critique and rate. Do they fail to realize the image was good enough already? </p>

<p>Andrew, from the OP it looks to me like you are passing up the photos that need the critiques. Telling someone a good photo looks good; what's that going to gain? Maybe some modest affirmation; but, it's the average photos that could be better which may probably need some feedback for the photographer.</p>

[darin_schaffer]

<p>Rate it like it was yours but maybe not as blunt as you would be with yourself. Constructive criticism doesn't have to and shouldn't be insulting. If an image is so bad that there isn't anything positive you could say about it, just move on, there will be plenty of takers. You can also read how the artist reacts to good solid constructive criticism, if he/she is instantly defensive, he/she won't learn anything from your comments anyway so why waste your time.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p><strong>My personal ratings criteria:</strong> <br /> Originality<br /> O=1: The camera could take this by itself without your help. In fact, it looks like it did.<br /> O=2: Internet Disease photos (Myspace high angle pouty self-portrait; fake lens flare; fake Tri-X borders on digital color photos)<br /> O=3: I see you like babies in cribs and kitties in baskets<br /> O=4: You actually left the house to take a photo. Congrats! Great capture of a statue in the park!<br /> O=5: It appears you actually tried to pose someone before snapping the shutter. Good effort. Look out, Richard Avedon.<br /> O=6: Not only did you photograph a homeless guy, but you photographed him robbing you. Very original!<br /> O=7: I've never seen this type of photo before in my entire life and it frightens me.<br /> <br /> Aesthetics<br /> A=1: What did I ever do to you to deserve this visual affront?<br /> A=2: Destroy all your negatives and files, sell your camera, find another hobby. I recommend watching television.<br /> A=3: I yawned. But not in a bad way. Beats counting sheep.<br /> A=4: Postcard. Where'd I put my stamps...<br /> A=5: You have my attention.<br /> A=6: I'm tempted to admit you're better than I am.<br /> A=7: Bliss. Kill me now, it won't get any better.<br /> <br /> <strong> Anon system:</strong><br>

3/3-5/5: N/A. There is nothing lower than 6/6. You have been expelled from our clique.<br>

6/7 anon: Different numbers for O&A shows critical thinking. This is unacceptable. You have been expelled from our clique.<br /> 6/6 anon: I don't understand what you did here but I'm afraid of retaliation. Congrats! Great capture!<br /> 7/7 anon: Mutual gratification society. You HDR'd the heck outta this! Fantastic composition! You, my dear friend, rule the thirds!</p>

[nhut-nguyen]

<p>I usually rate high, 5 and above a lot. Everybody likes high ratings, I like it too...but I always tell what I like/dislike about the image in my comment. If an image needs improvement I say so in my comment, I still rate it a 5 though.</p>