Getting Started with photography as a buisness?

[monique_b1]

<p>Hi all, I am new to photography and really want to get into it professionally, I want to take natural un-posed children's photo's, in the client's home or their chosen location.<br>

I have a canon eos 450D which I have had for only 3 months. I actually want to ask a few questions so I will number them to make it easier:<br>

1. Do I need to do any formal training to become a professional photographer?<br>

2. How do I know I'm ready to charge people for my work?<br>

3. What do I need to start ( accessories, computer programmes, etc )?<br>

4. What should I be charging to start off with?<br>

5. Where do I order my prints from?<br>

6. Do I give client a cd or only order prints?<br>

7. How much do I charge for each print size?<br>

8. What editing software should I have?<br>

9. How do I advertise?<br>

Ok... I think thats enough for now, some people might be thinking Im trying to run before I walk, but Im just really keen!<br>

I would love to hear your thoughts!<br>

Keep in mind, I don't have lots of cash to lay out.</p>

 

[jon rennie]

<p>You really won't get answers to all your questions because there are just too many options. Your location will have a big impact on more then half of these questions and even after that you will have a dozen options for each.<br>

1. No<br>

2. Only you can determine this and the only way to tell for sure is to try. Some great photographers have no desire to charge for their work and some lousy photographers charge a lot.<br>

3. Camera and a backup with a veriety of good lenses (this depends on your style of shooting) and a couple flashes. Photoshop is a staple as far as I am concerned.<br>

4. No one can answer this, look around at your competition and see what your market bares and compare it to yourself.<br>

5. Depends where you are.<br>

6. Each are good business strategies. There is no answer.<br>

7. See #4<br>

8. See #3<br>

9. I don't have the experience in childrens photography to comment on this one.<br>

I think you are looking for a lot of concrete answers but you really won't find any. You have to first understand that a photography business is more about a business then photography. Equipment is only one battle. If you want to invest some money in equipment get some quality fast glass which will last you a long time. Lenses are a better investment then the camera body.</p>

[fullmetalphotograper]

<p>To be blunt, if you want this to be more than a hobby, you need a business plan, a marketing plan and a basic understanding of photography. If you do not have these, then you are dead meat. Before you buy any hardware I would suggest taking a community college course or an adult school to get your photo basics and a business class. Once you understand basic photo concepts you will then be able to ask the real questions that you need.</p>

[pcnilssen]

<p>Monique,<br>

if you want to go professional wit this, you must also understand that there is a market, where there is a seller (you) and a buyer (me). Your questions are just a few that you must have some kind of relation to.</p>

<p>For me as a buyer, I need to know: Why should I hire you. How can you convince me that you are the right person to take the pictures I want to give grandparents, hang on the wall, and so on.</p>

<p>I understand from your question that you are young, passionate, eager and impatient. I think you really have to think about the answers from both Jon and Ralph above, and work more with your business and marketing plans. Many of your questions will then give their own answers.</p>

<p>You also write that you do not have so much cash to lay out. To run a business you have to have some funds to start with. You must also find answers to how to finance your budget.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

[john_macpherson]

<p>Bottom line really is the quality of your work - do you submit any images here on pnet for critique? In the last three months of 450D ownership how many "un-posed children's photos" have you taken, and who were they for, why, and what response did they elicit?</p>

[justin_greene]

<p>1. Heck no! All you need is a camera!<br>

2. You're ready yesterday. Anyone who can point a camera should be paid the big bucks!<br>

3. A bootleg of photoshop and a cheap Dell, and you're set to go.<br>

4. Well, doing "unposed" photos, you should be in the several hundreds for sitting fees.<br>

5. Prints from Target! Right down the street.<br>

6. Give them the cd, and prints. <br>

7. $.25 $10 and $26.50<br>

8. See #2.<br>

9. You should buy prime time airtime on a local tv station.<br>

.<br>

Seriously, you have a camera, and no knowledge. When you have spent some serious time, experimenting, reading, learning, watching, researching and thinking, you may find you already have found the answers you are looking for. And people here will be more than likely to point you in the right direction on the rest.</p>

[dean_tomasula1]

<p>Unfortunately, 3 months is not enough experience to call yourself a professional. First you need to learn the basics of photography (you don't need formal training for this, but it could be beneficial). You also need to practice your craft and perfect it. I was practicing photography as a hobby for 11 years before I got my first professional job. I had learned all about film, lenses and darkroom practices by then. I never studied photography in school, but I did read everything I could find on the subject, talk to friends with the same interests and spent a lot of time out there shooting. There is no substitute for experience. I also learned about marketing, running a small business and advertising.<br>

Find everyone you can who is willing to let you photograph their kids. Maybe trade them some free photos for the time with their kids. Learn about lighting, reflectors, posing, etc. Once you have that down then you can open up shop and start charging people for your services.<br>

Just because you own a camera that doesn't make you a professional. You have to know about photography, business, marketing, advertising an customer relations. Once you have an understanding of this, then you're ready to start charging people.<br>

I don't mean to sound harsh or to discourage you. It really isn't as hard as it sounds. But you need to put some effort into it to become successful. Being passionate about photography is great, but there's more to it than that.<br>

Good luck.</p>

[peter_ferling]

<p>You need to become very, very, very, very, very, good at your craft. Just having gear is not even an entrace fee into the playing field.<br>

I've seen many photographers get a decent camera, experiment and create good portfolios, and then fail when it comes to:<br>

1) Having only three minutes in an unfamiliar setting and one or two chances to get a good shot.<br>

2) Knowing what a contract is and how to communicate with a client before committing.<br>

3) Being able to think on your feet and experiment with lighting in difficult situations.<br>

The only way you can effectively address these issues is by constant use and experimentation. You'll have to adopt an always take your camera with you policy. Put the camera on manual and keep it there. Volunteer to be the pro photographer for your family. take the kids to the park and practice as they run about. Visiting some sporting events. Go on nature walks. Turn your garage into a studio, get a light kit, a sweep and some reflectors and experiment. Read up some tips and tricks and then try those out yourself to gain first hand knowledge.<br>

Eventually, when a client comes to ask about a job, you'll be very confident in knowing what it will take to fulfill the job because you've already done that, what effort and time is involved, and how much you'll charge to make it worth your while.<br>

For instance, I had a simple job of shooting some seniors in a volley ball tournament, where the graphic artist hired me on to get the shots. I charged him for two hours work, and promised him at least three shots each of the eight seniors for him to work with. One to shoot, one hour for post (plus the release of full rights for images).<br>

Upon walking into the gym, I noticed right away that it was too dimly lit (in fact the worst I've encountered), and flash was not allowed. Right away I told him that I'll be shooting with my 50mm 1.4, and 135 f2 at 1200-1600 iso and not to expect images to print well above 8x10, otherwise the color noise would reveal itself, unless he wanted black and white. I also asked if I work on the floor courtside to be close enough to stick with my primes. He agreed and decided that he would still print the final pieces at 16x20, but would scale the images to 8x10 and rework the layout as a montage with text, logos, etc.<br>

The shoot went well. Everyone was happy with the result. The only way I managed to avoid an issue is because I knew the capabilities of my gear though experience, and was able to communicate this to the client.</p>

[monique_b1]

<p>Wow! That was all fantastic advice.<br>

I think I'm going to start by asking friends and family if I can take photo's of their kids to get experience! I actually put in my status bar on my facebook page if anyone would be interested in having portrait photo's taken as I need experience.... and had plenty of volunteers, so I am happy with that!<br>

I am really excited, eager and someone said impatient (they wre right!) by the idea of getting paid to do something I love.<br>

Some of the comments definitely made me realize I'm not quite there yet, I do have an issue with getting my exposure right...The other day I was at the wiggles with my daughter for a photo opportunity and I just couldn't work out how to get the settings right manually so I had to go auto with the flash! which was rather annoying. But I do think I take some great close ups with natural light! and I get loads of compliments on facebook, which is always nice.<br>

Thanks again!</p>

<p> </p>

[s_z6]

<p>Hi Monique,<br>

as you can see in my post, I'm also still struggling and still have some of the same questions. In a way, my story is similar to Dean's. I've been a "serious amateur" for about 12 years, then got a contract, first photos published, first assignments, good reactions. Then I started thinking about getting really serious about it. I've read as much as possible, taught myself, did internships and assisting, researched, went to galleries, talked, talked, talked and above all shot shot shot shot shot. Then I registered my business and learned with each assignment.</p>

<p>There's a lot to think about and I've been driving myself crazy with some of the same questions. But I learned to deal with each "challenge" individually and, guess what, learned some more. I'm not in a position to give you real advice yet but I would say just practise your a*** off, develope good ideas (for marketing and your pictures) and take it step by step.</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Weird. Can't seem to find my post. Oh well. Here it is again. :-D<br /> 1. No. Absolutely not. It helps but not necessary. There are so many ways to learn these days that school is just a nice big way to throw away your money for this career. Go out and buy Fast Track Photographer by Dane Sanders, and read it cover to back before you start anything. :) Ignore the people who tell you otherwise, these Grumpies are not worth giving the time of day to. Like a couple of people up above.<br />2. You should feel right charging people at least $1000 per wedding or say $250 per session. Any less then that and you're loosing money and it's not worth doing.<br />3. At least a 50D or a D300, anything less and you'll be wishing you'd bought the right camera to start with. If you want to be a pro you're going to need a pro camera and lenses. Also you'll need at least a 24" iMac or say a 15" MacBook Pro with a 24" external display with Lightroom2.0. You'll also need insurance, online proofing (Pictage LITE), an online secretary (like <a href="http://web.shootq.com?r=cathy_and_david_photographers">ShootQ</a>), and a website. You'll also need some fast glass. Expect to spend around $10,000 to start your business the first year. If this doesn't sound cool, you might want to rethink it.<br />4. Try $150 a session including a disc and go up from there till you're making a steady income.<br />5. WHCC, BayPhoto, MPix, or your Pictage Service.<br />6. Give a disc with all sessions and make print sales be icing on the cake.<br />7. Whatever makes you the profit to be worth selling them and to cover the cost of online proofing, plus some added income to make it worth your while to offer high-end prints to your clients.<br />8. Lightroom2.0, Photoshop can come later.<br />9. Don't. Use word of mouth for now. Get a free google, yahoo and yellowpages listing though. These will help.</p>

<p>Seriously though. There are going to be a lot of people who are going to tell you that you're not good enough etc. Ignore these people. Stick to the people that like sharing ideas, exchanging contributing ideas and those that want to be helpful to you. Then when you get to a point where you feel successful do the same to others that were in your shoes in return.</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>Monique,<br>

Where are you located? Let us know so that I can perhaps recommend an association or guild for some education and networking....-Aimee</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>OH! And what Aimee said. networking is your friend. :) Your network is your networth. Surround yourself with caring, loving people who want to share ideas and learn as much as you do and you'll gain from their input. :)</p>

<p>Thanks for the reminder Aimee! :D</p>

[Lek]

<p>I'd add, if there's a camera club near you, join it. It'll help you develop as a photographer.</p>

[jennifer_shoemate]

<p>Hi Monique<br>

Being new to the photography business myself, I'll give you as much insight and advice as I can.<br>

I've been an amatuer photographer for over 10 years. 4 years ago I got my first digital SLR camera (Canon EOS 20D). I didn't have the slightest clue how to use it. So I practiced, read a lot of books, asked my photographer friends for help. I researched and did I mention practice?<br>

I got launched into the business by a friend of mine. She was officiating a wedding and the wednesday before, the bride and groom's photographer backed out. They had already paid them and had no money for a replacement. I had NO experience in weddings. My friend asked if I would do it and I told her many times that I had no experience.<br>

I did the wedding, got fantastic responses from the bride and groom and their guests. The pictures turned out ok. I gave the bride and groom a DVD with all the pictures on it, and didn't make a dime off the wedding. BUT, I gained the experience. I loved it so much I started my "business". Now I do Family Portraits, Seniors, Weddings, and Events.<br>

<br /> 1. No, you don't need formal training. But you do need to know what you're doing.<br /> 2. Honestly, I'm not sure a lot of the "professionals" should charge for their work. Jon Rennie said "Some great photographers have no desire to charge for their work and some lousy photographers charge a lot." I couldn't agree more. You need to be very careful about charging for your work. If you charge (right now) you need to be very honest with people that you don't have any experience. Because if your pictures do not come out "professional" quality, than you will have very angry customers.<br /> 3. I agree with everyone else on what you need to start; camera, lenses, flashes, photo editing software, Clients!<br /> 4. My personal advice is to NOT charge to start off. I have been doing this "professionally" for almost 3 years now and still do not charge for my service. I'm honest about how long I've been working, I offer FREE service, and only charge for the prints/albums/etc. This way I continue to gain experience, and always have satisfied customers. How can you be upset if the pictures turn out porrly when you didn't pay? The print sales are where I make my money.<br /> 5. I have used Pictage and am not impressed. I found Miller's and have been completely satisfied. The quality is good, the price is fair and they are always coming out with new products to stay up to date with everyone else. <br /> 6. Since you have such little experience, I would give them the cd to start. After you are completely comfortable, I would have them pay for prints. <br /> 7. This is such a vague question. Each lab is different, so no one can really say how much you should charge, it depends on how much you are paying, and what your markup will be. After you gain the experience I would research studios in your area and then price accordingly. I would probably start by pricing low to give people an incentive to come to you instead of them. <br /> 8. Photoshop is definately the best. But, it is pricey and if you are just starting out, you could learn the basics from the software that comes with your canon. Invest in photoshop when you will make the money back.<br /> 9. There are several photography sites you can advertise on. To start, go to Craigslist and offer your free services in your area.<br>

Don't let anyone tell you that you need to go out and spend thousands of dollars to start. You still have a long way before you will re-coop that money, so my best advice is to slowly build it up as you learn.<br>

Look in your community for Photography classes. They are normally a month or two long and can range from $50-$250 dollars per class. They have everything from beginners photography to photoshop to lighting. These are also great places to meet other photographers just getting started and you can help each other.<br>

Good Luck!</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Jennifer --- Why aren't you charging yet? You've been shooting for three years now. It's time to start making a living doing this or to stop calling yourself a 'professional'. Part of being a professional is being okay charging for your services. Otherwise it's just a money pit. As well, you need to charge that money so you can buy the professional equipment you need to invest in your business. I do firmly believe that if you are going to make this a business professionally, you need to invest the money in the proper equipment for your clients. This costs thousands of dollars, and is expected with any business. You can either be a weekend warrior, or be a professional business person, not both. You have to decide which you want to be and go from there. Please don't take this the wrong, way, I mean this earnestly and for your benefit!</p>

<p>Also, photoshop is not the best tool. Lightroom or Aperture is for shooting weddings/portraits etc. Photoshop is for final touchups or photo manipulation or heavy action sets, not editing lots of photos or being able to properly organize them. I suggest that you start charging at least $500 - $1000 per wedding (a reasonable starting price) and start using that money to get some pro equipment and programs etc. You WILL book weddings at that price, don't be afraid to charge for your time!</p>

[monique_b1]

<p>Thanks again for your advice, Im from Australia! probably should have mentioned that at the start.<br>

I don't think millers do print for us down here.But I did get onto a site called prolab world and nulab, I might get some prints done and see how they turn out.<br>

I've been looking at doing an online photography course but not sure which one to go with as there are so many.<br>

thanks again.</p>

 

[allen_r1]

<p>It is true that you don't need any specialized training or credentials to become a professional photographer, however, it does require experience, knowledge (both of photography and of business), and money. At this point it sounds as though you have almost none of the above. I am not trying to be discouraging but to help you put things into perspective. At this point I believe it would be unethical to charge anything. You could also be setting yourself up for embarrassment and even legal concerns if you get in over your head and haven't done your homework before accepting a job. Being a "professional" isn't just about collecting money. It's also about professionalism which includes knowing your own limitations and treating clients with courtesy and respect. Billing them for work you can't deliver on is not very professional. Best of luck </p>

[randalldouglas]

<p>My sincere advice is: pursue photography as a hobby for a while longer if you have a good job and can stand it. The market is oversaturrated with talented photographers, compeating for a piece of a dwindling pie. From what I've read, most areas in Australia are the same deal. That's not to say that you can't go out there and make it work if you are awesome and know how to market, but it's getting pretty hard.</p>

[randalldouglas]

<p>Otherwise, the people that pointed out that you need to reasearch your market to answer these questions are correct.</p>

[briankdonnelly]

<p>Monique,</p>

<p>I made the decision to start charging for my photography when I finally got the message from the numerous people asking why I wasn't charging. But I had abeen doing candid portraits for years as an intense hobbyist. That is, I didn't "go pro" so I could pursue photography, I pursued photography, and then "went pro". I think you're on the right track with doing work for free for a while. People will let you know when to start charging for your work. In the meantime, be bold in taking on a variety of unpaid assignments.</p>

<p>1. I don't think you need any formal training. But I'll echo what you have already seen above: you need to know what you're doing. Read a lot, practice relentlessly, be open to critique. I study wedding photos or portraits nearly every day.<br>

2. In my experience, people will tell you when you should be charging for your work.<br>

3. I needed more than I thought I did, but I do weddings in addition to portraits. I have one 40D body with some nice glass, and I rent a backup body/lens for weddings. I use Photoshop CS4 and Bridge daily, and love the combination. I also bought a noise filter (indoor no-flash weddings in dim churches = noise). I bought a fair amount of lighting equipment as well. But all of this depends on what you shoot. For a portrait shoot on Saturday I expect I'll use my 40D, a 50mm f1.4 lens, and that's it.<br>

4. Scan the local market to see what others choose. Then set your price, and discount from there for your first few clients. It's important to establish your price and then discount; if you don't, it's hard to raise prices later for repeat customers, and referrals communicate your too-low prices.<br>

5. I'm on the east coast of the US, but I use Bay Photo. I haven't tried any others. The local PPA members all recommended Bay so that's where I went first. I'm 100% satisfied.<br>

6. I give a CD of low-res (web quality) images, and then post them on my site with a shopping cart so they can order hi-res prints. If a client wants the hi-res images digitally, I charge them a fee for it.<br>

7. I did a scan of the local market, and set print prices to be competitive.<br>

8. This question will generate a lot of religious responses. Use whatever you know how to use, and you're comfortable with to produce the images you're going for. I use Bridge and Photoshop CS4 and am quite happy. Over time I'm adding filters (i.e. Nik Dfine) as I need them and can afford them.<br>

9. I made up business cards to hand out, and I network like crazy. FaceBook has been a terrific free way to get business. I have booked two weddings and three portrait sessions through FaceBook connections in the last few months, and I expect it to grow. Word of mouth/referrals is *huge*. A web site with a gallery is critical, even if it's just FaceBook to start.</p>

<p>Good luck! Friend me on FB - I'd love to see your images as your photography evolves.</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Monique! Contact our friend Cathy Crawley, she's an amazing photographer in AU and is suuuuper nice. Tell her we sent ya. ;)</p>

[k_c18]

<p>Of course, the problem with charging for prints is that no one wants prints. Once they have the disk they can make as many prints at home, at Walmart, Walgreens, Target...anywhere for free and you'll never see a dime. <br>

Better yet, in this economy, I can't even get people to get their picture taken for free. No interest whatsoever and I've had an ad on Craigslist for 2 weeks. I can't even get started.</p>

[jan_pittard]

<p>Monique -- I'm in the same boat but I have been into photography for a long time -- <br>

1. No you don't need formal training, but it helps. There are lots of good books you can read (get from library for free) and try out the techniques with your camera. Also there are some good often inexpensive classes you can take in continuing ed through community centers, universities, etc. <br>

2. When you have friends clamoring for your photos! You can charge from day one or do ask for some time in exchange for photos. <br>

3. You have your camera and a good lens. you can do a lot with natural light and home made reflectors (poster board, poster board covered with foil, etc), this is where classes can help you with the lighting needs. <br>

4. You would need to price out what people are charging in your area. There are formulas -- figuring out your break even rate and then charging over that. Try checking out different places in your area to see what they charge.<br>

5. & 6. Prints can be ordered from any lab you want to work with. Or you can simply give the client a flash drive or CD with the photos. They can then get the photo prints they want where they want. <br>

7. Check going rates.<br>

8. Photo shop is the software for most photographers. I have a good option for you if interested in a good entry level organizational/editing tool that is $40.00. I love it, been using it for several years. I will be getting photoshop though as I progress with this business.<br>

9. Prime time tv is expensive and not viable for entry level. Best advertising is word of mouth. Post on Craigslist. Find new or pregnant mother groups (such as La Leche League or Mothers of Preschoolers and let them know what you are trying to do). I'm sure you will find some moms willing to help you get going on your portfolio. <br>

I have a friend who just jumped into it. I asked her where she took classes and she said she's completely self taught. I took 2 years in high school of photojournalism, a year of journalism which I often was off shooting more than writing. A semester of Black and White 1. I wanted to minor in it but the minor was an art minor with focus on photography. I needed to graduate, not diddle in art classes. I'm now looking at taking a certification course series (noncredit) through a local university, but I'm jumping in with my stock I have now. <br>

Look into creating an online portfolio such as Behance ($11/month for hosting), which will push feeds to your social media. THen they check out what you are doing and helps generate more business. <br>

Order business cards. Join a photography meet up -- there's a website for meeting up with people with common interests. Talk to a photography locally who might need an assistant. You can learn a lot from what they do. VistaPrint has excellent prices for business cards with great color artwork. You can also create brochures, etc. for posting at local business bulletin boards, college bulletin boards. <br>

You have a good specific area of focus. You have a good quality camera. Find some willing subjects and have fun!</p>