D700 and light-weight AIS primes

[aruns]

<p>Good day, everyone!<br /> <br /> I am a very frequent visitor (nightly :) ) to the forums here, and I have thoroughly enjoyed and gotten educated by the forum participants. It is not an understatement if I say this site is one of the best to discuss photography. Thank you, frequent posters, and Thank you, moderators for keeping the discussions civil. By the way, this is my first 'question' (I think!) although I have posted a few responses before.<br /> <br /> I have one more of the "upgrade to D700 or D300?" questions for the current users of D700 - I searched the forum archives and found somewhat similar questions/responses but not exactly what I was looking for. Kindly bear with me if this has been asked before and if you don't mind, point me to the right link. Thanks in advance.<br /> <br /> I mostly shoot landscapes with various focal lengths, although I don't really limit myself from any shooting opportunity. I seldom print the pics primarily due to the hassle of storage and maintenance, but when I did, I printed A4 - A3. However, I do pixel-peep a lot. I don't make money out of my photography, but it is a stress-reliever and thus an important part of my life. <br /> <br /> My question is about the following lenses in my collection, as I am considering a D700 or D300 upgrade from my D70. As an aside, I am not considering other bodies due to several reasons which will make this post very large. Also, I have a few other lenses, mostly AIS or AFD primes, but my post pertains to the following lenses. For the record, I have only on DX lens - the 18-70 kit zoom.<br /> <br /> - 20mm AI-S f/3.5<br /> - 24mm AI-S f/2.8<br /> - 135mm AI-S f/2.8<br /> - 180mm f/2.8 AFD<br /> <br /> Basically, I am trying to stay away from the pro zooms that are usually recommended for D700 for best IQ. Reason: weight and cost. I travel a lot, so from a air-travel/hiking/landscape shooter perspective, the pro zooms are too much for the bag/back. Also, a good set of pro-caliber Nikon trinity lenses will set me back by at least $5000. Thus, even if I spend the money on these lenses, I feel they will be left back at home when I go on my trips.<br /> <br /> From the current owners of D700 (if you are a hiker / backpacker / air-traveler, your response is all the more welcome!):<br /> - I would like to know if the primes mentioned above will help me postpone the purchase of Nikon's holy trinity lenses (i.e., 17-35/14-24mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm) indefinitely, while still allowing me to enjoy the benefits of D700's sensor (higher resolution, higher DR, low noise, high iso, metering with AI lenses, etc.).<br>

(I know Ilkka Nissila has pointed out before, the 24mm may have CA at edges, and Bjørn Rørslett points out that 20mm f/3.5 AI-S (52mm) has significant field curvature / edge softness. But how bad is bad? I mean, is it only curable by the expensive and heavy pro zooms..? please consider this from an A3 print's point of view and a 100% crop pixel-peeper's point of view and let me know your thoughts..) <br /> <br /> If the situation is that gloomy, I may have to settle for a D300 and Sigma 10-20 or similar, and keep the rest of the money under my bed. :) <br /> <br /> Thanks in advance, have a great weekend!<br /> Arun.</p>

[tobey_bilek]

<p>There is little differnce in weight between a D300 & 700. The prism is somewhat larger.<br>

I use my 700 because I hate the crop factor for primes and those are what I use. You may be different , but I have been doing primes for many years. I am programed to expect certain things.<br>

20 mm is not very wide on DX. It is impressively wide on FX.</p>

<p>If you are not wired as I am and can put up with the smaller viewfinder image, DX will serve you well. You can always get a 12/24 or new 10/24 for a D300. But why when you can spend the money on the better body and not worry.</p>

<p>The D700 will take impressive pics with the 18/70 if you change it to DX mode, easily done.</p>

<p>I would recommend you look thru each, 35mm on DX, 50 mm on FX. you will see the impressively larger viewfinder.</p>

[aruns]

<p>Hi Tobey,<br>

thanks for the response. I should have made it clear, sorry - I am for FX. I don't like the crop factor for wide lenses too. I am looking for D700 for its FX sensor so wides will be wides; but my query is about lenses.<br>

More specifically, will the AIS primes I collected so far will give good results for printing upto A3, or at 100% crop view... or must I get the 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 lenses to extract the maximum quality from the D700 FX sensor.<br>

The D300 is really a worst case option to me, if I still want to upgrade my body but don't want the D700 with its $$$$ and bulky glasses.<br>

Thanks,<br>

Arun.</p>

[paul_aylett1]

<p>The Tokina 11-16 is a great DX wide angle lens. The only non Nikon lens I own. I don't do much WA stuff but it's well built and has great reviews. You can go wide on a D300 without compromise on IQ!!</p>

[dan_kreithen]

<p>Do yourself a favor and take a close look at the Zeiss ZF series of lenses. You will flip over the image quality of the 21mm, 35mm and 100mm in particular. These in particular are in a class of their own. They are somewhat expensive (although not really for what you get), but you will only buy them once, no need to look further if those are the focal lengths you really want. Another viable alternative are the Voigtlander SL lenses.</p>

[aruns]

<p>Dan, thanks. Are you suggesting that I try the Zeiss / Voightlander with D700?<br>

Thanks, A.</p>

[tobey_bilek]

<p>Nikon wides are somewhat so ft inthe very corners on FX. It takes F11 to clean mine up 100%. I am talking the last 5 mm from center to corner. I have 18 3.5, 24 2.8, 28 2.8, 35 2.0 and they all behave the same on D700, buy they work on film just fine.<br>

The 135 and 180 will be perfect. In fact 50 mm and up are all ok.<br>

Zeiss lenses I have never used on digi. I am perfectly happy with all my Nikkors excet the wides and I decided to live with them. I don`t that much WA that the 14/24 would be worth it to me.</p>

<p>8</p>

[John Crowe]

<p>Full frame is absolutely worth it. I think people tend to exagerate how bad some of the older manual Nikkor lenses are on full frame DSLRs. The worst case scenario is that you might like, over time, to upgrade some of the manual Nikkors that you have with other manual lenses. I believe Bjorn rates some of the AI/AIS wideangles better than others on FX bodies. You can certainly upgrade to better manual lenses a lot cheaper than autofocus ones.</p>

<p>Even the "trinity" as you call them are not perfect in some peoples experience. The 14-24 is very highly rated, at the moment, but as we have seen with every new lens that comes out, it takes a couple of years for both sides of the story to come out. </p>

<p>I like my 28/2 AIS, 50/1.4 AIS, 135/2 AIS, 200/2 AI and 400/2.8 AIS on the 14 MP full frame Kodak SLRn. I like the 14/2.8 too, but it's autofocus. I guess none of these are exactly "lightweight" though!</p>

[Matthew Brennan]

<p>Arun,</p>

<p>Your current primes and a D700 will make a lot of sense to you given your requirements for 'mostly landscape' photography. If there might be need for change to your current line up, I might suggest you replace the 135mm focal length with either an 85mm or 50mm f/1.4 or f1.8. Not that your AiS 135mm f/2.8 is not a fine lens...........<em>to me </em> both 180mm and 135mm on FX is a little overkill.</p>

<p>I'd keep your 20mm f/3.5 as it's my "go to" lens when shooting into the sun, it can't be beaten for minimal lens flare when the sun is anywhere near or inside the frame. I have the 20mm, and 24mm lenses you list - I really enjoy them on the D700 and these lengths make a lot of sense <em>to me</em> on the FX format. </p>

[aruns]

<p>Hi Tobey, John and Matthew, thanks very much for the feedback. For all the talk we hear about D700's ability to work with older lenses, I was a bit concerned as most of the discussions on forums center around the 24-70, 70-200 and 14-24. It is good to know that many people indeed pair the D700 with their older AI/AI-S lenses.<br>

Tobey, thanks. I usually stay within f8 for DX (D70) and push the lenses to f/16 for film. It is interesting to know the sweet spot is about f11 for these wide lenses, on the D700.<br>

John, thanks for your candid response. I was looking for real world experiences and your response captures it well. I will look out for the 200/2 and 400/2.8 :)<br>

Matthew, I do have the 50 f/1.8 and 85 f/1.8, both AF-D. I have seen posts on forums that these lens are not exactly the same as their f/1.4 brothers, but definitely do very well on the D700 - which is perfectly fine with me. That's why I didn't list them here. Thank you though. I was looking for some feedback on the 20 and 24mm, so it is good to know that they work for you. If you don't mind, could you please share some samples (especially 100% crops from the edges).<br>

Thank you very much, Arun.</p>

[photo5]

<p>I used my D700 with my Nikkor 28mm f2.8 AIS, Nikkor 35mm f2 AI, Nikkor 55mm f2.8 Micro-Nikkor AIS, and my Nikkor 105mm f2.5 K AI converted (factory ring) lens. All of them performed brilliantly on the D700 without a doubt. I also used a Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-4 SP Zoom on the D700 and it too was brilliant. The D700 is a brilliant camera except for the far from 100% viewfinder.</p>

[seismiccwave]

<p>I believe rather then some one giving you the answer for all the primes at one time the joy for you is in the search. I would go ahead and get the D700 body and start by looking for a good wide angle prime. The 20 mm f2.8 is readily available and not too expensive so that may be your fall back. You can't go wrong with the D700 and the 20 mm f2.8 AF-D. If you want to play with a different wide angle you will have to search and wait for the right one to become available. Ultimately you may still have to spring for the 14 to 24 f2.8 zoom since it is the holy grail of super wide for the FX sensor. However it is heavy and bulky for travel or hiking. <br>

Once you settled on the super wide the rest is fairly simple. There are lots of alternatives and options but none as hard to choose as the super wides.</p>

[g-man1]

<p>May I suggest instead of the 24, get the 28/2.8 ais and instead of the 135 get the 105/2.5 ais. I have those with the D700 and am very happy.<br>

I also have the 24-85/ 3.5-4.5 af-g and it works great with the D700, and is light, too.</p>

[Matthew Brennan]

<p>Arun,</p>

<p>I can only post small images here - this is an example of a shot taken with D700 and Ai 20mm f/3.5 (52mm thread version)</p><div></div>

[Matthew Brennan]

<p>And this a close to 100% corner crop of the same image - it's not as sharp in the corners as my 17-35mm zoom but for such a light weight flare resistant lens it's plenty acceptable for corner sharpness.</p><div></div>

[Matthew Brennan]

<p>As Hansen said go out and buy a D700 and see if your existing lenses suit you.</p>

[keith_b1]

<p>Get the D700. You should get fine results with the primes you have.</p>

[petter1]

<p>Hi Arun</p>

<p>If I were in your pants, I would buy the D700 and use the excelent glass you already own and forget about the zooms. You'll do great without spending 5 grand ;)<br>

I'm not a frequent air-traveler, hiker or backpacker but I do go everywhere with my D700 and only 2 primes: E-Series 28 f/2.8 AI-S and 50 f/1.4 AF-D. The performance with the 28mm was great on the D40, even without metering and on the F4 (still use both) but it really shines on the D700. <br>

As Matthew said, we can only post small images, but here are a couple of examples from my E-Series 28 f/2.8<br>

@ f/8 on film<br>

<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3391/3501011291_7f59454bf4_o.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="453" /><br>

@ f/4 on D700<br>

<img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3359/3501823222_e3987672b6_o.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="700" /></p>

<p> </p>

[oskar_ojala]

<p>The teles are ok. The 135/2.8 is slightly low in contrast and may flare easily, but it's a small lens and delivers the good when stopped down. And flare is mostly about blocking stray light. If image quality is the only consideration, then a zoom won't really help here.<br>

The wides are ok but can be improved upon. My number one small wide is the Voigtländer 20/3.5. Based on web samples of what I've seen of the Nikon 20/3.5, I'm thinking that the Voigtländer is better, but without having the Nikon for testing it's hard to say what it means in practice. The Zeiss 21/2.8 is the best, but big and expensive. My choice for 24 mm would be the 24/3.5 PC, but that's also big and expensive. In general, 28 mm lenses are better than the 24 mm lenses. My 28/3.5 has a very clear edge over the 24/2.8 AF-D that I sold. The 28/2.8 AI-s is supposed to be a bit better. A 14-24 zoom might be better in some aspects of image quality, worse in some. Same goes for 17-35.</p>

[rob_wall]

<p>The 20 2.8 AIS is a wonderful lens and is only a little bigger than the 3.5 version. I have two of the 3.5 versions (pre-AI and AIS) and the build quality alone fo the new lens makes it worth the price of admission.</p>

[carl_becker2]

<p>Arun, I use the 20mm f2.8, 24mm f2.8, 28mm f2, 35mm f2, 50mm f1.8 and 105mm f2.5 AIS lenses with my D700. The wides are not sharp in the corners wide open. That does not bother me a lot since I usually will be stopping down quite a bit. I don't carry all of them together, if I did I would be looking harder at the 17-35mm f2.8 because I also use filters. Your lenses will work good to very good depending on aperture usage. Try out what you have with the D700. Then you will know if you need to make any changes. I am also hardwired to primes but I do have a couple of zooms that are smallish and pretty light, the 28-105 and 75-150 Nikkors. I may at some point pickup a used 17-35mm f2.8 but not this year. $$$. I am not a pro but like you photography is part of my life.</p>

[cwphoto]

<p>Arum,<br>

I am a hiker/backpacker w/D700 & a Nikon 24-70. I will NOT use this lens for extensive walking. Like you I own older primes. Use'em. Also use a tripod if you find lightweight/sturdy one. No use having good glass if ya can't keep the camera steady.</p>

[dan_kreithen]

<p>Yes. Zeiss/Voigtlander with the D700. That was my suggestion. Even though the lenses are also good on the DX bodies, they are somewhat overkill (size and weight-wise) for the DX sensor. However, if you already have the prime Nikkors there is no reason not to use them!</p>

[bsd230]

<p>It's not an AIS, but my 50mm 1.4D is amazing on the D700. Just got my D700 yesterday and have been amazed how sharp the 50 is. I only thought it was sharp on my D200. I would assume for backpacking you would want wider and longer, but for a walk around prime on a FX sensor it's not bad.</p>

[bsd230]

<p>Sorry just read your second post that you have the 50mm and 85mm covered.</p>