A lady wants to steal my photos and make her own album!!

[jakelester]

<blockquote>

<p>Sorry for the negativity folks, but I have no room for people who jump to conclusions about who I am or how I've lived.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Defensive much?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A lady wants to steal my photos and make her own album!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Is that not you jumping to a conclusion about this woman's intentions?</p>

[michael s.]

<p>jeff b --</p>

<p>1. I included the <em>smiley</em> symbol after my crack about your having led a sheltered existence, as I was just razzin' you. Perhaps you missed that ? Of course I know nothing about your background or world experience.</p>

<p>2. For future reference, though, I'd suggest that using the word "stealing" as "<em>merely a phrase to get you alls attention" </em> when "stealing" is not what you truly meant might<em> </em> not be the best approach<em>. </em> Evidently a number of us -- and here I'd have to include you -- tend to take things literally. See my paragraph 1 above. :-)</p>

<p>3. The phrase I quoted about octogenarians was indeed a direct quote, but from a post on this thread by another person named Jeff. Evidently you missed that, too. My link will take you to the news story explaining my comment. <em> </em></p>

<p><em><br /> </em></p>

<p> </p>

[William Michael]

<p >It is silly not to default to interpreting the written word <strong><em>literally, </em></strong>in circumstances, when the written word is the only means of communication.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Some nuances or intentions are detected with symbols, like smiley faces, and others are noticed after consistently reading a particular person's writing style and understanding their phraseology or deviations from it.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >When first reading this thread, I held off my response until there was a reply to John Henneberger's question – which in my mind was a most sensible question to reap the best honed and targeted answers / suggestions to further adress this issue, for one who was clueless.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > <br>

WW</p>

[mike_hitchen]

<p>I think the lady was just keen to get on the post-party 'social' side of the event and help everyone. You could keep all people happy by telling the lady that it was paid work so you are obliged to give the photographs directly to the person who hired you but when you hand over the pictures you will mentino her offer of posting on mac album (remember to ask the lady for her name so they know who to contact!).</p>

[jeff_bogle]

<p>No worries Michael S. We all know sometimes it's hard to "read" sarcasm/humor in writing. <br>

1. To John's question - I simply just told her we'll see, in a polite way. I didn't want to get on her bad side. A lot of these people are the "who's who" of the town, and I guess I couldn't rule out the situation. <br>

2. I guess why I'm questioning the whole situation is that (A) - She didn't seem to be your typical "point-and-shoot" casual photographer who was just taking a couple shots. She had a Canon 40D strapped around her neck with a nice piece of glass attached to it. (I was so busy though, I honestly maybe saw her use it once or twice. So I know she wasn't an additional photographer that was hired.) and (B) how do I convince my client not to do that idea (because I'm 99% positive the woman gave my client the same 5 minute speel about the mac photo album as she gave me) considering my client and I already discussed making an album, if they choose, from my prints.</p>

[Brian]

<p>I do very little event photography, and all of it gratis, so I can't give a business perspective on your situation, but the bare bones of the conversation with this woman seems to indicate a rather pushy and insensitive personality. She semed to have a proprietorial attitude to the event, in that she expected to ask for, and get, a perfect stranger's photos, although she wasn't that well informed because she was unaware that you had been commissioned to take shots of the event.<br>

You did right to brush her off as politely and noncommittally as possible.</p>

[William Michael]

<p >Given that information, the “other lady” seems to me to be either: an innocent and attempting to make something nice; or a busy-body / controlling type and attempting to make something nice. I think the fact she had a 40D is of no consequence - she could just be enthusiastic about her photography. I think noticing her camera and nice lens is likely your newbie nerves rather than any business threat to really worry about. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Either way you deflected the matter politely at the scene. And that was a good first step, IMO.</p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p ><strong ><em >"a very broad range of an agreement, no contracts written or signed, just [spoken]"</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >As you have been paid in full; I suggest you supply whatever it is you agreed to supply to the Client - be that Files or Prints, or both. Continue the selling process. You should act and assume you are creating the album which you spoke about. </p>

<p >If the subject of the "other lady" making an album <em>is brought up by your client</em>, I would offer to do the album, but I would not argue about it. If the client is insistent for the “other lady” to make an album, just supply what you agreed to supply to your Client and leave it there. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >If you are supplying prints I think you could make your work identifiable, if feasible, - for example if you agreed to supply (20)10x8 prints for an album I suggest you sign each of them in the bottom right corner. But, on the other hand I would not make a big fuss about "the use of my files" - if it comes to that. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The point is, the beginning arrangements bit were a bit relaxed and it is counterproductive to attempt tighten these aspects now, IMO. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >In the (unlikely?) event that the "Other Lady" contacts you directly, before you meet with your Client, just explain you have to supply the goods to you client, as you promised - the conversation need not be any more complex than that. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Obviously, you lessen the chances of that happening, the quicker you get the goods to your client. It is Wednesday now, four days after the event . . . I suggest you get to it. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >For example, we turn a Saturday Wedding for viewing by the following Tuesday evening, and can do so by Monday 1500hrs if the Bride and Groom are leaving and want the viewing before. A Birthday Party is much easier. I think that particular protocol needs to have some thinking about and perhaps some refining, as you modify your business plan. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >But that particular matter is not as important as taking this experience and applying it as an inexpensive learning experience to realize how important it is to have: a concise offer of sale with pricing schedules and a standard engagement contract.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

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[jeff_bogle]

<p>Thank you William W. You are very kind in sharing your extensive knowledge of photography to me so that I can better my preparations for the future. If I ever post another question for help, I hope you respond! Thanks - Jeff</p>

[batovision]

<p>work you do is WORK FOR HIRE, the work belongs to the person you sign a contract to do the work for.... I refer the lady to the clients, who pay for a delivery of media.</p>

[irusan]

<p>Al,</p>

<p>That is terribly misleading information. Work for Hire has very specific requirements including, among other requirements, that a written agreement that the work is being performed under a work for hire arrangement.</p>

<p>The mere fact that someone has paid you does not mean a WFH agreement has been made.</p>

<p>Here is a pretty decent primer: http://www.copylaw.com/new_articles/wfh.html</p>

<p>And here is the link to the circular from the US Copyright office: http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ09.pdf</p>

[William Michael]

<p >No problem. Adrenaline is good - it just needs to be kept in check, especially when dealing with customers. I really do not think you have all that much to worry about, frankly. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >In the "worst case" you just supply the Prints/Files and you have an <em>happy customer.</em></p>

<p > </p>

<p >You could think about how you spin off that - you might already have met the 90 year olds’ Grandchildren (guess they are all 40ish) - you could offer them all a deal on a Family Portrait session . . . etc . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >OK some might be too far away from you, but think laterally about it. If you have an happy 90 year old that's good, 90 year olds usually command some clout within their family.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

 

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Offer albums to the clients yourself as you should be and apologize to the woman that you cannot simply because they hired you as the professional. Do your job and don't apologize for doing so.</p>