The other guy taking shots

[signature_assistant_...]

<p>I'd just like some thoughts on a situation we seem to be being placed in in our area. As far as I know almost all photographers state in their contract that there is to be no other photographer at the wedding unless it's family or friends taking snap shots. Fine with that right? No big deal. Well there is a d.j. that plays a slideshow during the reception of photos, now these photos are provided by the couple of their life together etc. but it turns out that there is also some guy taking shots with his camera during the reception (most of the time in our way and mimicing what we're taking shots of) then he goes and posts them in the slide show. We were also asked if we could give them our memory card so that they can post some photos from the shots during the day. We ofcourse were a bit hesitant just because our professional photos are going to be mixed in there with "the other guys" photos. The couple had mentioned this to us prior to the wedding, saying that the <strong>D.J.</strong> would take some photos of the dancing and activities going on and wanted to make sure we where ok with that. In my opinon if it's just candid shots of whats going on then fine BUT they where more then that..a copy let's say.<br>

Should we care?<br>

Would you care?<br>

Are we over reacting?</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>This is really up to you. Is this going to cost you business? If the DJ is going to make prints or sell or include a disc with the slideshow, it certainly will. Even if the bride and groom can't make prints, it's still a permanent memory and it fulfills a need. I think this is what you should be concerned with and NOT that someone may mistake some images as yours.<br>

Whatever you decide, this is something you need to clearly spell out in your contract. Phrases in the contract like "at our discretion", etc. will only lead to unhappy situations with your clients should you not allow something that arises. Be specific about it or perhaps offer this service yourself? Apparently there's a market for it.....-Aimee </p>

[signature_assistant_...]

<p>The bride does get the images afterwards on a cd. There is a market for it but being where we're from it's not a large city so if we where to get into this, well the "word of mouth" may suffer. I'm actually thinking of speaking to the D.J. himself, maybe he's not getting the picture of what he's doing. He's a great guy and I wouldn't want our professional relationship to suffer. It's a fairly new thing he's got going on. </p>

[hooman_b]

<p>Would he mind if you hooked up your ipod to play some different songs for the crowd so I could better shots? Can you borrow the mic to tell the crowd to do this or that? Everyone has a job, and DJ's is to work the sound not kinda sorta take pictures so they can promote their "all in one service"....</p>

[jimmckinnon]

<p>Seems to me the answer to most of your questions can be found in the answer to this question: "Are you confident that your professional photos will be better than the DJ's snapshots?" If so, you should not feel threatened, and let him do his thing. His backdrop of snapshots in a slideshow vs. your professional package of memories is comparing apples to oranges.</p>

<p>His being in your way is a horse of a different color. Your work takes priority over his snaps. This is something you should discuss with him.</p>

<p>As far as mixing your work into his show; If I were a wedding photographer (and I'm <strong>NOT!</strong>), I would not do this. My feeling is that, in order to maintain your standards, you need time to sort, adjust, etc. prior to your photos being ready for public viewing. Let the DJ provide the "shoot'n'show." That is apparently part of what he is being paid for!</p>

[neilambrose]

<blockquote>

<p>We were also asked if we could give them our memory card so that they can post some photos from the shots during the day.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>No one, but no one, touches any of my cards during a wedding. What are you going to do if they damage it -- or the images?</p>

<p>I've never been presented with this situation but I can assure you my answer would be a polite but very firm no. As to the guy following you round with a camera, frankly who cares? He may be shooting from similar locations and times, but will he be using the same settings? The same DOF? The same shutter speed? The same quality glass? Will he have the same composition and timing? Will he see what you see?</p>

<p>If you know what you're doing you can have 20 photographers shooting next to you and still be confident that the image you make is your vision and yours alone.</p>

[aimee_pieters]

<p>For starters, this is 2009 and everyone needs to leave their egos at home. Threats, confidence in your work, etc, aren't going to pay your bills; increased sales are.<br>

A copy of the slideshow that the DJ does, along with a couple of prints from the professional photographer may be a very attractive replacement for a parent album. Level of quality or not, it fulfills a need.<br>

If this is increasing in popularity in your area, the real question is WHO are they going to purchase this from -YOU or the DJ? Perhaps you can work together instead of against each other. You do the photography and he displays the presentation?<br>

Think it through and if you feel it works, approach him....-Aimee</p>

[john_hazelton]

<p>There are two more concerns that you may want to consider. First, the guests may assume that this photographer works for you, and/or that the photos being shown on the slide show are from you and represent the quality of your work. If the DJ photographer is a jerk, or the slide show photos are bad, it may damage your reputation. Second, guests may get tired of having the picture taken repeatedly. What do you do when you arrive and the guests say: "No more pictures! We've already had our pictures taken by the other guy!"<br>

John</p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>What Aimee said.</p>

[savagesax]

<p>Get on the good side of DJ's. Work with them, not against them. Offer to shoot some engagement shots to add to the slide show. Talk to the DJ's ahead of time and ask if they want any special shots.</p>

<p>Often you will see the same DJ's at several weddings during the course of the year. They will refer you and you can refer them. A win win situation. By the way, DJ's are not your competition. They simply want to put on a good show and stay employed, just like all of us.</p>

[mrmel]

<p>If this becomes the norm in your area it may be time to start doing something similar and provide it as an extra in your packaging. I think it should be addressed right from the beginning when the contract is being signed. I’m pretty sure this will only lead to lost sales for you if it is aloud. Haven’t seen it yet but I’m sure it’s coming. </p>

[steve m smith]

<p>The bride and groom hire the photographer to take pictures and provide prints, etc. They have also hired the DJ to provide the music and this slideshow service.</p>

<p>As long as both parties do what they have been contracted to do then there should be no problem.</p>

<p>If the photographer's contract specifically states that no other 'professional photographer' will be in attendance then that contract will have to be modified to allow the DJ to provide his photographic part of his service.</p>

<p>As the photographer you may not like that idea but if the bride and groom want to hire the services of both parties then their contracts cannot be mutually exclusive.</p>

[steve_carless]

<p>I allow the videographer to take shots as long as they stay out of my way. I've never had a DJ do it. It's up to you to make the call. If he was selling the pics, I'd say no. If he's just putting up pic of people dancing, I'd allow it as long has he stays out of my way.</p>

[rvalois]

<p>You're shooting professionally so you are (most likely) shooting RAW. In all likelyhood, the DJ doesn't know what that means except that he can't project them without some kind of conversion ... if he says he can do it, you can explain that RAW images must be processed or adjusted before viewing.<br>

Ray</p>

 

[picturesque]

<p><strong>Should we care?</strong> If by 'we' you mean pro wedding photographers, the answer is 'maybe'. It depends on the specific case, and on whether, as Aimee says, it impacts your bottom line.</p>

<p><strong>Shoud I care?</strong> Not usually. Like Bob, I try to be the DJ's ally not an enemy. Only if the DJ's photographer is getting in my way would I say anything. I'd rather my images were up there rather than the DJ's photographer's poor imitations of my directed shots. However, I do not sell albums with huge amounts of profit built in, so I don't have that much interest in protecting my images that way, and I don't consider them high art, either. I would not, however, turn over CF cards to anyone. As for people confusing my work with the supposedly poorer work by the DJ's photographer, I figure if someone is truly interested in possibly hiring me, they will talk to me, and I can tell them that no, that wasn't my stuff up there on the screen.</p>

<p><strong>Are we overeacting?</strong> Again, maybe. Yes, if one is getting up on one's high horse and declaring all of one's images should be in the Louve.</p>

[starvy]

<p>keep a small point and shoot with you. take some extra snaps in jpeg mode. offer these to the slideshow people.</p>

[StuartMoxham]

<p>If the DJ is hired to play music and provide a slide show then that is what he has done. If his contract with the bride and groom is that they get the slide show on CD then so be it. I don't think it is a good idea to give the DJ memory cards if your not comfortable with it. At the end of the day just because the DJs way of working does not fit with your business plan does not make it wrong. One thing that seems too often forgoten is that it is the B&Gs wedding day and they or their families have to pay for it. DJs are usually in competition with other DJs and videographers are usually in competition with other videographers they offer the extras to set them apart from their competition. There is no rule that stops a photographer offering a slide show during the reception or making a slideshow CD. Photographers could sell parent albums while the couple is booking them by offering them a better price if they preorder the same also goes for enlargements and other extras.</p>

[wedding-photography-denver]

<p>I don't know if I would care. So far I have not cared when this happens. I frequently work with a DJ who also shoots weddings. His work is pretty good on both counts too. I don't care though. ,</p>

<p>As for giving them my images AS we are shooting... Nope, never.</p>

[bnyc]

<p>I'm not a wedding photographer or even a professional photographer, but I have some feedback - feel free to take it with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>This kind of real-time photo display is becoming quite common at weddings, though I've usually seen it done by setting up a laptop and a large monitor that shows an ever-expanding slide show as the event goes on. But however you do it, people clearly want it. Having seen it done a few times, it's pretty cool, and more importantly everyone loves it.</p>

<p>Rather than worrying about giving your photos to "some guy", I would be worried about the fact that the couple clearly has an interest in a photographic service which you are not providing, and therefore they are looking elsewhere for it. Logically this kind of thing would seem to be something the photographer should do, but they are going to someone other than you. This time it just means you are getting an odd request for an already-booked gig; next time it might mean you are passed over in favor of the photographer who offers something like this as part of the package.</p>

<p>My advice would be to view this as an opportunity rather than a problem. Find out what the bride and groom really want and think creatively about how to provide it - whatever it is you can probably do it better than "some guy", and if it goes over well you can add it to your offering in the future.</p>

[signature_assistant_...]

<p>The confidence in the work is definitly there, mostly it was the overlapping or imitations of our shots. We didn't appreciate this guy interupting a photo with the bride/groom and cake to "set up" his own shot and then ask us if we'd like to take that same shot. Really? During speeches standing in our way? <br>

We do shoot in RAW and that's exactly what we tell them. I would never ever let anyone touch my memory card!<br>

I guess it's just one of those incredibly annoying things. Especially when you've spent the entire day shooting the wedding and get into that reception happy with how the day went.</p>

<p>:)</p>

[bryan_lardizabal]

<p>This "cake" incident happened to me. As long as they paid me for my services, I'd swallow my pride and forget about it. In the end the bride knew who the professional was....the bottom line in your case as well</p>

[picturesque]

<p>Signature--if that is the case with the DJ's photographer, I would definitely say something to the DJ and the photographer. Taking shots from the side would be OK, but if the photographer started directing and interrupting, and not letting you have lead position, I would put a stop to that immediately.</p>

[peter_wang6]

<p>Starvy and Neil get it right. <strong>You incur professional liability when you hand over your cards to someone else.</strong> You cannot risk having that data damaged. You were paid to provide that specific service, and the DJ isn't paying YOU to extend or modify that contract. Your obligation is to your client, and to the extent that you feel such requests may inhibit you from doing your best work, it is your responsibility to convey your stance as professionally and clearly as possible.</p>

<p>Starvy's recommendation is an excellent remedy to the situation. Give them some throwaways. A good photographer can handle taking a few quick snaps. Who knows, they may even give your pro gear a run for its money.... (oh, who am I kidding?) But again, don't just bend over and take other people's direction, especially when they're not the ones paying you. Your job is to deliver. Your client presumably hired you for what YOU can bring to the table. If they're not happy because you let someone else tell you how to do your job, that's not anybody else's fault but yours.</p>

[gregory_c]

<p>You said:: ""<em>We were also asked if we could give them our memory card so that they can post some photos from the shots during the day."" </em><br>

HECK NO ! What if the DJ damaged or erased your memory card ?</p>