Shocked by Nikon repair costs

kelly_flanigan1 · April 25, 2009

At that price the repair cost is about what a new lens costs; ie the lens has been totaled out.

With a plain car one would not repair one that costs more than a new one with warranty.

A lens maker can either charge what it really costs to repair the item; or make it lower and pay for this welfare with an increase in lens prices to others.

Its a STANDARD PLEA for a person to say their gizmo was not dropped; was not placed underwater; used in a sandstorm in repairs.

Weekend warriors will buy gizmos; use them for the weekend and return the gizmo for a full refund. Returns in some industries often have no issues; folks just got a free rental unit.

In repairs of transits and auto levels and binos here; its standard preaching from customers that the units were no dropped. You set a dinky pea shooter levelup and one sometimes gets one that cannot be aligned; the wedge washer will not allow enough adjustment; the entire FRAME of solid aluminum has yielded. Or on an autolevel the compensator tapes/ribbons are broken; or yielded; and the hundred customers all say the unit was NEVER dropped.

Or one has a P&S digital camera where the zoom lens will not extend due to it being fouled due to being dropped. Its worse with a camera; one has often hidden damage with marginal electrical traces; cracked solder joints. A customer will say the unit was never dropped; and one finds loose broken pieces inside. Its easy to say one is being ripped off with repairs; you consider a repair persons time and experience to be zero. In like matter photographers are ripping off folks too; since in costs nothing today since digital is free! :)

The cost of repairs and replacements and insurance (if thats your gig) should be factored in. Zooms have always cost more to repair; they have moving lens groups; the tend to suck in dust. AF lenses are more complex than manual lenses. A zoom AF lens is not going to last as long as my LTM Nikkors that have been dropped and still work fine; built from the late 1940's to mid 1950's.

In cellphone stores parents will bring in their kids dead/flakey cellphones and say they were never dropped; when they llok like they were used as a hockey puck for a few games.

When folks tend their beloved tools like a lens; level; camera; mower; outboard; car to another; they didnt pay for the item. If its dropped; they dont have the guts to tell you. In levels and cameras its a standard statement that the unit was never dropped; but the unit was lended to a friend; and now it doesnt work right.

The lens in question might have been just borrowed and dropped when you were not looking; and placed back "as is" and thus you feel it was always handled in a fine way.

Try an independent repair outfit too to get some quotes. With a lens thats been dropped the fstop and or focus rings often are oval; one can measure this with a caliper.

Many consumer items are not worth fixing when there are major woes; its cheaper to just buy another. Unless one has really taken apart the lens in question and fixed one with similar issues one really has NO basis for stating the repair is too expensive; one is basically just venting why a repair person doesnt do charity or welfare.

In like matter as to photographers; here at the print/repair shop I get preached at that photographers are too expensive; ripping folks off. It is human to assume anothers job is trivial; easy and the other chap is making boatloads of cash each day.

In my own lenses; ones that I have NEVER lended out basically have had a zero repair costs; ones that got borrowed got dropped. Its not their money; thus the "tear it up its paid for" mindset often rules. In government and some corporate tools workers will purposely tear up tools to get out of work. Thus tools have to be more robust and heavier duty in some fields. One can study workers tools from 3 thousand years ago; slaves had beefy tools; free craftsmen had lightweight tools. IF you pay for you own tools you keep better care of them; if a slave you try to break the tool.

kelly_flanigan1 · April 25, 2009

Find another repair outfit that will look at the lens in question and get an estimate from them too. If 2 or 3 estimates are real high then one has several data points; instead of one and alot of emotions.

The production lifetime of lenses is short today compared to the past; repair chaps have a less knowledge base and a lessor abilty to get parts; plus being a repair person is often looked down at. Folks want repair folks to be the Shell-answer-man whiz with a zillion variants of gizmos. Many optical items are built at factories with fixtures; aligned and zapped in place with UV glues and never meant to be take apart like a 127mm Ektar on a 4x5 speed Graphic in 1947. Zoom lens and AF with stuck focusing and rings are like cars with a bent frame and blown motor and transmission; often not worth fixing.

Here I bought a junk broken Minolta AF 35mm film slr at the thrift store for 5 dollars. Its a Maxxium 5000i with AF 50mm F1.7 lens that was stuck. I just kept cutting off the outer ring with a hand hacksaw until it worked. The rig had ZERO/NO visible signs of dents or being dropped. I "miked" the lens barrel and found out it was slightly oval; removing material allowed the len now to focus. A new battery cost me more than the camera. Then I bought a new in the box goober Minolta AF 70 to 210mm F4.5 /5.6 zoom for about 14 bucks at the Walmart fire sale area; now I have a 19 dollar AF slr kit for fun usage.

The part about having a consumer item thats was totalled out and junked at a thrift store is interesting. The past owner or somebody had to have dropped the AF lens to make it oval shaped and bind. One has a lens that has NO outward appearance of being dropped; thus the quicky conculsions most folks make is the gizmo was never dropped. But the lens was dropped hard enought to permanently yield and make the focus ring bind.

derek_thornton1 · April 25, 2009

Ronald,

I see a lot of folks recomend that you should just buy another lens at that price. Personally I would not do that. There are other brands and I would threaten Nikon to trade in for Canon. I also would threaten to spread the story over the internet, which you are already doing. And, it is working, cause I am peed about it. I would think if you droped it enough to cause damage there would be some dent, ding or scratch. If there is some visable damage than you should have to pay, but $1,500.00? I do love the Nikon product but they are way overpriced.

In a way this story surprizes me because we all know that digital sales are a thousand times more than film sales were. I have spent my life in the outdoors and rarly ever saw a nice slr camera in someones hands. Now, everone has one. They have to be rolling in the dough. It kinda ticks me off that an $1,800.00 dslr does not come with good software and a free subscription to Nikon Magazine. If this story ever happens to me I will become a Canon user.

peter_e · April 25, 2009

I presume that the labor hour of a repair tech in Switzerland is two to three times as high as in the US, with the qualifications of a master watch maker, and the wage set by a guild.

kelly_flanigan1 · April 25, 2009

RE; "I would think if you droped it enough to cause damage there would be some dent, ding or scratch"

D.T.; just go into consumer repairs then and make a killing!:)

After one has heard your EXACT same statement on totaled out consumer items dozens of times; you can either FIX the stuff with charity ie welfare; or actually charge folks.

HIDDEN damage with consumer items and folks wanting other to pay for the damage is the trend; folks want others to pay for their careless ways.

No maker of goods likes to "eat" repair and replacment costs of item they sell; if they do these costs have to be passd on to teh new cost of items sold. Here I really do NOT want to pay more for items to have a built in insurance for dropping stuff; or abuse.

At some point some personally responsiblity with ones tools need to be taken. Why should a lens maker fix a totally out lens for free? No maker whether Nikon, Canon, Sony, Minolta, Ford or GM etc is going to do a 1500 buck repair for free.

One should get another quote instead of doing a smear tactic against a company that has been around for 9 decades. They might too have made a mistake; or just KNOW that the item that has issues is not really repairable; or if repaired probably is not a good long term solution.

kelly_flanigan1 · April 25, 2009

Folks on this thread somehow ASSUME that the lens in question is actually repairable in a thrifty manner; when the repair cost quoted is about equal to buying a lens. The price is such it would be cheaper to not attempt a repair. So the issue is somehow it worked; now it doesnt and it was never dropped; ie cosmic rays bent and warped the lenses rings. This can also be where a consumer item was baked; left on a car dash and the plastic warps.

ALL of us get into these pickles in life where our "stuff" breaks and is deemed to cost alot to repair. In our print shop the stuff the gets broken is typically when somebody abused it; its then placed back where it was; then one "discovers" it doesnt work during a rush job; with nobody mentioning they broke or dropped the item.

rick_m. · April 25, 2009

I think Nikon is being foolish. I am surprised we are not all universally condemning them.

First this is NPS. I would expect Nikon to provide a different level of service for this select group of customers. The whole concept of NPS is to cause professionals to remain loyal to the brand. Certainly Roland will not be recommending Nikon in the future... I can't tell you how many times a day, when I am photographing a public event, people ask me about camera brands. Nikon is seriously blowing it with professionals under the guise of giving exceptional service.

Second we have a stated repair cost that is far-far higher than the lens cost to manufacture. That in itself is absurd. Of course labor is more expensive in Switzerland than it is in Thailand but to ask a rate that insults the customer again flies in the face of the purpose of NPS.

Finally. When one buys a professional level lens one should reasonably expect it to be durable. If this lens has not been dropped and externally damaged they should just fix it under the warrantee. I take it from reading the posts here that this is an ongoing problem with a variety of Nikon lenses. Unlike their lenses in the past it would appear that Nikon is scrimping on the construction of their current line of lenses. Perhaps it would be wise to look for a convenient time to switch out of the brand. Durability has always been one of their selling points and many feel that Nikon is more durable than Canon. It would appear, at least as far as lenses are concerned, they are not.

My personal experience with Nikon repair (California) has been mixed. I sent one lens in for service and to fix a manual/auto switch problem and it took forever and cost $300.00. The repair was not even done successfully. I just decided to live with it because I did not want to be without my lens for another two months. I sent a d2H in for a bad circuit board and the service was fast, and very well done, though expensive.

I think Nikon should drop NPS altogether. They are certainly not serious about making it an advantage for professionals. It seems they do more harm than good. Why raise expectations when they have no intention of meeting those expectations. It is not a very exclusive club anyway.

roland_schmid · April 25, 2009

Kelly - nothing is bent, no dings or dangs. It feels like an inner obstruction, like a loose screw, which was developping the blockade during maybe one week. Nikon sells this product as a professional tool which should last longer than just one year, even when permanently used.

paul_b.1 · April 25, 2009

Ronald, the same thing happened to one of my friends ..., but exactly the same thing ! (in Europa) .The lens was 4 month old... Nikon should be awere about this issue . The problem was solved under warranty (serviced in Germany). All day I try to Google , to find my friend post(s) (on different forums) but I can't find anything... I think you have to talk'em to repair it for free ... Good luck !

conrad_hoffman · April 25, 2009

Welcome to the modern world. Most things today are produced in volume using automated or semi-automated processes, wherever the cheapest labor exists. It shouldn't be any surprise that many things cost more for someone with half a brain, and in a more expensive location, to open up and fix, than they cost to originally produce. The fact tha the lens was initially expensive has little bearing on this.

My dad always told me, "buy the best and buy it once". For a while that was good advice, but with technology products like DVD players and digital cameras, it doesn't work. Now I don't buy the top of the line in anything, but get the best deal I can on low or mid grade stuff. If it breaks, I try to fix it myself (often successfully), or if it's not practical to fix, it just gets tossed and replaced. I don't necesairly like this state of affairs, but it is what it is and there's nothing any of us can do to change it.

rick_wong · April 25, 2009

Roland

My 80-400 which I bought new and used for 3 years worked fine but a screw on the lens mount was missing I brought it to an independent camera shop which is an nikon service center here in Seattle. They checked out the lens and told me the bracket that the mount screws into was cracked they even showed me the cracked mount. The told me that it will cost $295 to repair. I then asked them about the 5 year warranty They then told me that it then had to be sent to Nikon which they did for me.

After Nikon recived the Lens I was told that it was caused by impact damage and it would cost $650 to repair. Since I bought the lens when no one wanted it I got it at a good price $1100 with a nikon $250 Rebate. So I was thinking the same thing for a few hundred $ more I could of bought a new lens. My lens was never dropped and was in mint condition I argued with everyone at Nikon and the best deal I could get was $620. I ask the lens to be returned with no repair. I then brought it back to my local dealer and they told me I had to send it to nikon for repair. (Nikon had black listed me) I continued to use the lens but after 5 more years the lens was not useable. I then ended up sending it to an independent repair shop that repairs Nikons It still cost me $650 but they replaced all the inards so it is like a new lens.

Talked to a pro from germany he dropped his 80-400 and it cost him about $650 to repair in Germany. He got it fixed and then sold it on Ebay for $1100 he was only hoped to make around $800 so for a few hundred more he was able to buy a new lens.

I have been shooting Nikon from 1971 abd started with a nikkormat went through the F line to F4 then switch to digital starting with the D-1. I have Nikon glass and all of this is on record with Nikon. I asked one of their managers to check their records that I have been a loyal customer since the 70's, that was when they offer to fix the lens for $620.

Art Wolf use to shoot Nikon I asked him why he switch he said that if he did not lose his nikon kit he would not be with Canon but Canon offer him a better deal

lex_jenkins · April 25, 2009

Moderator note:

Folks, rather than digressing too far into complaints about perceived problems let's concentrate on constructive suggestions for solutions. For example, references to professional associations, consumer rights organizations, etc., that might be relevant to Roland's specific situation.

A common problem with these threads reporting problems with consumer goods is that they tend to go too far adrift to be of any use other than to vent grievances.

So, solutions and suggestions, please. Thanks.

rob_malkin · April 25, 2009

In the UK this would be simple enough to fix.

Send back to Nikon. Nikon say the lens was dropped. You take Nikon UK to the small claims Court. One of two things happen.

1) Nikon's legal team dont show up (most likely). You win.

2) Nikon's legal team does show up (very unlikely). You ask for evidence suggesting that the lens was dropped. Nikon has no evidence. Judge rules in your favour. You get new lens and recover any legal costs.

Easy peasy

dbcooper · April 25, 2009

My experience: Nikon USA fixed a stuck zoom ring on my 80-400mm zoom lens last year under warranty with no questions asked and no problems. My only cost was shipping it to them. The lens was about a year old at the time. I'm quite satisfied with their warranty service. YMMV.

kelly_flanigan1 · April 25, 2009

A camera; lens; survey autolevel, radio, cellphone or child can have internal damage due to being dropped; with no outward sign that it was dropped.

In a lay sense; folks on this thread focus and equate because there are no outward drop marks; they cannot be any internal damage. With cellphones some have a "shock watch dealie" that breaks as an indicator; its in some cameras too. Thus when folks demand a free repair or new gizmo; there is hard physical binding evidence that the unit was abused. The used pro 5.8cm F1.4 Nikkor I bought on a used Nikon F back in 1962 still works; neither has had a CLA yet.

I have a 2meter Kenwood handheld held radio that fell off a roof on some leaves and has no signs of being dropped; to get it to work required taking the rig apart and resoldering the BNC connector on the antenna and a solder joint on a cable on the PCB.

The cellphone stores have a 5 gallon bucket full of dead cellphones that owners claim were never dropped. Here I have about a dozen or two shoe boxes full of dead P&S film cameras that are not worth fixing; all owners sid they were never dropped; even if the zoom turrent is 75 degrees to the body.

In cameras sometimes a spring can jump off; a pivot shaft can jump off a bearing surface with a bump. In a camera with a tripod socket sometimes somebody will attach the body to a tripod or screw that is too long; a piece of die casting at the bottom of the sockets counterbore will break off;and be floating around in the body. this loose chunk might be loose inside for a day or a decade; then with a bump or weird camera position it jams the shutter; like it did on a 2 1/4 Bronica slr once.

With old VCR's a buddy had one work flawlessly for about a 5 years; he bought a house; moved the VCR from the Apartment to the house and the VCR mechanism was jammed. The local VCR guru repair depots in Chatsworth and Simi declared it to not be fixable. I convinced my buddy to pop the hood on the VCR. The *ISSUE* was the green army men his kid stored there shifted with moving; arms, heads were fouling the mechanism. Removing the Army Men fixed the issue.

Sometimes consumer items arrive at repair places with no issues at all; the UPS or USPS ride bumped back the internals; and the unit works again. This is a horrible issue with a cracked PCB; the unit arrives and it works; one has no clues sometimes with some units of where the fault is. It is componded today because folks cannot give the repair depot a "who what when where" note; so the issue can be focused on.

Here I lost about a 15 Nikkors in Katrina; some were high on shelfs and were not flooded; salt air and a vapor frooze up the diaphragms on many of them; the helix are frozen on others. ALL have no real sign of ANY water damage; its like one shot super glue inside them. The lenses that survived where the ones I got to quickest and used plus ones I took up in the attic; and the older ones. Several 105mm F2.5's that were on a 5 foot shelf at like glued at F5.6; F2.5; whatever the last Fstop the lens was set to; the focus helix is locked on most. A 35mm F2.8 PC shift Nikkor will shift; but is stuck at 2.5 feet; stop struck at F32.

If it makes folks *feel happier*;) all these Nikkors mentioned above have NO outward signs of water damage; fungus; corrosion; dents. The glass and coatings appears perfect; one could sell these on ebay as mint gems that cannot focus; or one cannot use the fstop. Thus I find it abit funny how lay folks can say that a lens can be OK when its outward appearance shows not being dropped. All of the these were insured by an inland floater policy Of which I have not received a dime yet. One can place PB nutblaster on these lenses screws; wait a week or a year and one just shears off the screws.

Folks will buy used cameras; levels, transits. binos at a hock shop and "discover" they do not work. One guy last week brought in a Ricoh slr that when he cocked the shutter; the mirror stuck up; then he stripped out the wind gear "thinking" that forcing the matter would help. This camera too has no outward signs of being dropped; it would make a good movie prop and is not worth fixing.

Other folks bring in an ancient slr without an auto return mirror; the "fix" is called customer education; ie one winds the shutter again to drop the mirror.

One lady forgot how to unclutch the film rewind on her canon film slr and rewind the film stripping out the sprocket holes. A local place developed the C41; I scanned and made prints because the C41 outfit did not want to print 35mm film with lloked like it went thru a garbage disposal. Dead batteries are common issues; or leaking ones.

In some cameras like Retinas the failure is user forgets one has to have film in the camera to make the shutter work.

Many newer cameras and lense are not really made to be repaired. One often has a rats nest of flex cables; plastic do-dads that break when messed with; assemblies that are glued together.

What if the lens in question was just forced at its closest or infinity position and the stop/gizmo is now broken and loose inside and jamming up works? One can have a lens that looks mint; the broken piece is deep in the bowels of the lens.

Get another repair place that has worked on your target lens to review the lens and give an estimate. Repair today gets zero respect; thus many folks are never going to be happy no matter what the actual costs are. One really doesnt even know if the quoted repair cost is done locally; or the lens is going to be sent back to China or Japan for rebuild or replacement. It is often easier to just swap out the unit and give/sell you a new one or demo than fix a deep issue in a unit.

More and more consumer items that folks break and claim they didnt drop it are getting internal one shot shock watches. This allows the repair place see if the unit got abused with a drop; it reduces the emotion; it embarasses parents in cellphone stores. They have been around at least 1/2 century for shipping fragile items.

Try getting another repair place to quote on a repair before going off with the sue me agenda.

paul_b.1 · April 25, 2009

Sorry Roland that I misspelled your name, in my post above...

oskar_ojala · April 25, 2009

To clarify my original comment, contesting the quote could include getting another quote if they don't want to talk about it upfront. There should be a number of competent repair shops that can handle the lens, they can probably provide estimates. A more detailed description of the found fault and fix would of course also be of help.

roland_schmid · April 25, 2009

Kelly, thanks for your efforts. I don' want to sue your agenda at all, but my lens was definitely not flooded. I just see a discrepancy in Nikon's high promises concerning NPS, Pro-lenses etc. and the reality. Of course I will ask another repair shop.

Paul: No problem, you can call me even Donald;-)

thomas_hardy1 · April 25, 2009

Folks, rather than digressing too far into complaints about perceived problems let's concentrate on constructive suggestions for solutions. For example, references to professional associations, consumer rights organizations, etc., that might be relevant to Roland's specific situation.

</blockquote>

Maybe these folks are the sources you wanted cited? Maybe?

mt4x4 · April 25, 2009

I just wanted to pipe in that I have had good experiences w/ Nikon's (USA) repair service/warranty service. I had a D50 which had a stuck pixel that was also drawing a line all the through the image under the pixel. I sent it in to Nikon, via my local camera shop, and they not only replaced the sensor, but also the LCDs on top and in the back of the camera. I didn't even know they LCDs had any problems. The repair took about a month, but the only thing I was charged was $5 for shipping to Nikon.

It is very unfortunate that Nikon Sweden chocked the stuck zoom ring up to the lens being dropped. I have read about 1/2 of this thread, and saw that someone suggested you have a repair shop look at the lens so that you have another opinion on what has caused the stuck zoom ring. I think this is good advice.

steve_mareno · April 25, 2009

It all sounds a little suspect, doesn't it. Quite a coincidence that the repair costs come to just about what a new lens would cost. I agree w/ Brooks, this is a good reason to carry hazard insurance for just this sort of thing (although it's a coin toss which I would rather not deal with, a warranty rep or an insurance claims rep). If it were me, I would investigate whether a less expensive, older used zoom of roughly the same focal length wouldn't do as good a job, at a fraction of the cost. Old Southern saying "once burned, twice learned" applies here. Any attempt to fix the situation by dealing w/ the usual weasels will result in a ton of lost time and more frustration.

dparrish - SW Florida · April 25, 2009

I had a Nikon 80-200 f2.8 lens go bad about 3 or 4 years ago. It wouldn't focus... binding up internally. It was out of warranty, so I sent it to "Fotocamera Repair" in Lake Worth Florida. They repaired the lens for $135. It came back in about 3 weeks working perfectly. I'd go back to them anytime.

Dick Parrish

eric_arnold · April 25, 2009

i had an sb-600 which stopped working. i was quoted a price by an (authorized) repair shop in Sacramento which was more than the cost of a new one. i ended up getting another quoted estimate, from nikon in El Segundo, which was substantially less. honestly, i think some repair shops determine their fee according to the MSRP of the product in question. i would definitely get a second or third opinion.

lex_jenkins · April 25, 2009

Thomas, I'm not challenging the veracity of the experiences shared by others in these reports. My request was for recommendations for specific repair technicians who are available in Roland's area, as well as specific references to professional organizations in his region, or for his area of expertise (I believe Roland is a freelance PJ and documentary photographer, and a heckuva good one - one of his photos, the POW, was first in my favorites folder) that might be able to lend a hand in resolving this problem.

I don't have any problem with people relating accounts of their experiences with Nikon distributors and service, good or bad. But I'd also like to see some specific suggestions for solutions and resources. Otherwise these threads tend to digress a bit.

les · April 25, 2009

I know that most people would disagree - but my take on the issue of repairs/warranties is as follows: if you can't live with the cost of repairs - you shouldn't be buying the stuff in the first place.

Modern products are not made to be repaired: at best the "repair" is a replacement of whole components, frequently built of many subcomponents - and most of them are OK, and do not need replacement. This is the cost of miniaturization and automated assembly.

The only thing is - these products should not be so hideously expensive. I can put up with a throw-away lens or camera - but at a reasonable price. And several $K is not what I would call a "resonable price".

Well, no one ever said that photography is a cheap hobby - which it is for most of us.

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