Why wedding business dries up - VALUABLE TIPS ABOUT SELLING YOUR WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY

[robbie_caswell]

<p>I've worked under three photogs. All are equal in skill, passion, and have fabulous people to people skills along with great vendor referrals.</p>

<p>One advertises more and attends bridal fairs and when I stopped working for her was shooting 70 weddings annually (not including portraits) and still complained about money. She seemed a bit sloppy when it came to editing because it was farmed out.</p>

<p>The second, had already met her 2009 goals before her one and only bridal fair, shuns adding associate shooters, spends endless hours editing, spends little on advertising, would rather grease the palms to get on a preferred vendor list, and counts every penny and is flourishing.</p>

<p>The third does mostly pageant queens, models, and fashion shoots, with an occasional wedding.</p>

<p>All are successful at getting clients. One has a stunning website, another has a great website and active blogging, the third had a second rate website.</p>

<p>What they shared was a hard driving, motivated, give 120% mentality, and have mastered all phases of their business.</p>

<p>I don't think there is a cookie cutter approach that will work in Detroit but fail in SF., but your approach to marketing and managing your business is likely more important than your photography skills. Your computer skills and final product had better be as better than your photography skills.</p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p><strong>"If the a bride gets 2-3 names from the Ritz Carlton, and a similar number from 1 or 2 other vendors, she has a real list."</strong></p>

<p>Steve, they're likely to be the same small pool of photographers. At that level, it's quite a small world and the same names would expect to be prominent at the main resorts in their area. If you're unclear as to how your desired market operates then it would be worth taking time out to do some serious (concrete) research, rather than relying on assumptions which are unreliable at best. </p>

<p> </p>

[chris_whitcomb1]

<p>Steve - Here's an article written by Kirk Tuck for ProPhotoResource.com that I know you will appreciate. You'll have to register(free) to read the whole article but IMO well worth the time.</p>

<p>http://prophotoresource.com/index.php/Marketing-Techniques-to-Super-Charge-Your-Business.html</p>

[steve_hovland]

<p>Good point, Lindsay. It may mean that a direct approach to those venues by anyone who is not already on the list would be a waste of time.<br>

Thanks Chris.</p>

[think27]

<p>Steve - I wouldn't say that at all. </p>

<p>I went to high end venues... Talked to the sales staff - showed them great shots of venues I'd done in the past. Suggested (more than suggested) that they could have shots like this in their presentation books if I were lucky enough to do a wedding at their amazing resort etc. etc.. I made sure to show upscale looking weddings/brides. I left cards and I did get referrals. Not only that - I spoke to the front desk people - left cards with them and asked the GM if it would be ok for me to use their lobby for meetigs with prospective clients... I said that it would be good for both of us since they may also consider the hotel for one of the hotels the guests would stay at. </p>

<p>Another good place to make friends is with the bartender and cocktail waitress staffs at high end places... When couples come in to town or family members that are helping the couple find vendors - they will often ask the staff. Now that is more true in big cities and resort areas than small towns... But small towns are easy to network...</p>

<p>Then - I got to know the restaurant manager... He/she would come out (they'd know I was there in advance) and ask us if we wanted coffee or something to snack like cookies or fruit (which I'd pick up) and I'd introduce the couple... The Food and Bev person would say hello and congrats and casually ask where they were having a rehearsal dinner and if they'd picked their venue yet... </p>

<p>Often it happened that the couple would go see them after to check out the menu etc... </p>

<p>I just worked at making myself as valuable to them as they were to me. In addition, sometimes I was the one referring brides to them (venue's florists etc) and I made sure they knew it when I did. Another huge source of business is other photographers.</p>

[lindsay_dobson]

<p>Steve, that is nonesense, the list is <em>dynamic</em>, it's about who is doing the most to stay ahead, who is in that top pile at any one time, it's certainly not about having a defeatist attitude. Earlier, you suggested some are complacent. I sincerely doubt that. Your competitors will work long and hard to earn, gain, and keep their position - servicing relationships with vendors is a big part of that. Read Mary's post again. You clearly believe you have a place up there with them. Fine, that's admirable, but I've looked at some of your competitors, they're impressive, many have built a 'brand'. Good luck.</p>

<p>Tthis is a fantastic resource for future readers. I wish you well with your project and hope your theories bear fruit. </p>

[steve_hovland]

<p>Lindsay, I don't think I was shooting down the idea of going after some of those venues. Just thinking that if the very top venues have a short list of people who are really staying on top of the game, then you might be better off making an indirect approach through a florist or a dressmaker whose work appears at that venue.<br>

I don't pretend to be ready for those places, and I'm not sure I even care about that. I do care about having prospects who can afford to spend enough to make it worth the bother. <br>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of sales people in all lines start with interest and end at ability to buy. I think it's better to start at financial capability and then develop the interest.<br>

Regards,<br>

The Devil's Advocate :-)</p>

[William Michael]

<p><strong><em>"It may mean that a direct approach to those venues by anyone who is not already on the list would be a waste of time."</em></strong><br>

<strong><em>&</em></strong><br>

<strong><em>". . . might be better off making an indirect approach . . ."</em></strong></p>

<p>I argue it is never time wasting, to be face to face, negotiating an outcome to suit one’s goals with any Primary Decision Maker.</p>

<p>In this regard, I think a point to remember is, there are a lot of (decision) links in the chain to the final (Bride's) decision. Each of those links often has a Primary Decision Maker, other than the Bride herself. And each of those links has strengths and weaknesses - and importantly that changes over time. I also argue that as a business (any business) chases the larger sale, usually there are more Decision Makers in that chain.</p>

<p>As an hypothetical example, (with permission to use Mary's experiences as the base).</p>

<p>Suppose Mary were in the process of developing contact with the Restaurant manager of a particular Hotel. Suppose also, that I had previously followed exactly the same protocol as she described above and I was <em>already</em> at the stage of taking a snack like cookies or fruit, which I also would pick up and I would also introduce the couple... and also the Food and Bev person would say hello and congrats . . . etc<br>

<br />But, Mary being more business savvy than I, made sure that <em>previous to the her initial meeting with the Restaurant Manger</em>, she and her Husband had dined at the restaurant (unannounced) a few times before, on a Saturday night and on a Monday night.<br>

<br />Whilst dining, she asked a couple of questions of the Waiter who served her, like "is the Lobster Bisque popular . . .” and, "I know someone who had their Wedding Reception here . . .” etc, just general chit-chat, but she remembered the names of the staff, the Maître d and also, she choose food from the menu which would likely be served at a large, sit down function, like a Wedding Breakfast.</p>

<p>So, now we fast forward to Mary's <em>initial meeting with the Restaurant Manager</em>, (remembering I have a strong link with him already - he gives me <em>Chocolate</em> cookies and coffee when I meet the Prospects in his hotel) . . .</p>

<p>At Mary's face to face with the Restaurant Manager, she mentions the excellent Lobster Bisque her Husband had the previous month, and . . . etc.</p>

<p>Leaving out the technical words (both in Marketing Speak and Psychological Analysis) to describe the interaction between Mary and the Restaurant manager which followed; and simply articulating the <em><strong>result </strong></em>of that interaction at <em><strong>a cellular level of the chain of decisions which are later made that result in the Bride choosing her Wedding Photographer.</strong></em></p>

<p>Mary's link with the Restaurant Manager would most likely be <em><strong>stronger than mine</strong></em>: but more importantly, her interaction would have likely <em><strong>weakened my link with him</strong></em>.</p>

<p>The latter point is very important to consider, because later, when that Restaurant Manager and I meet with a Prospect (for both the Hotel and me) who <em><strong>I bring to him</strong></em>, it is most likely that <em><strong>the % chance of me keeping the Prospect has lowered</strong></em> even though the chance of the Hotel getting the Prospect remains the same, and this is because of the Restaurant Manager’s actions and inactions during that Prospect meeting, <em><strong>even though he might not be aware of the nuances of the change in his actions to toward me and the Prospect.</strong></em><br>

<em><strong></strong></em><br>

<em>Just imagine the exponential </em><em><strong>effects to Mary’s business</strong></em><em> and the exponential </em><em><strong>effects on my business</strong></em><em> if she applied similar savvy to the Bridal Coiffure, Couture, Florist, Limousine Company . . . all of whom I already had a relationship link, (and I merely sat comfortable on my bottom content with the strengths of my links) . . .</em><br>

<em></em><br>

It is indeed about who is doing the most to stay ahead, and it is indeed about every little link. This type of thinking at the cellular level about <em><strong>outcomes</strong></em> and how we get there might seem complicated: but to my mind it is often the quickest method of analysing what is actually going on.</p>

<p>The hypothetical example above is a simple story, which could be adapted across the general thrust of this thread.</p>

<p>Perhaps it is an idea to look at the whole of this from this slightly different viewpoint: without any technical labels or text book theories . . .</p>

<p>Just thinking about what people do when they feel good; how to make them feel good; and how to be remembered for doing just that.</p>

<p>WW</p>

 

[rick_m.]

<p>And what we are all dancing around is fundamental salesmanship. <em>"Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think a lot of sales people in all lines start with interest and end at ability to buy. I think it's better to start at financial capability and then develop the interest."</em><br>

<em></em><br>

Oh God NO! Could not be a worse idea. If you start by prequalifying prospects (particularly in person) the prospect will know exactly what you are about and will be offended by it. If you start asking personal questions about budget before they have told you they are interested in what you are selling they will KNOW that you are focused on your bottom line, not theirs. I have no problem with your planning to service a particular market but be very carefull. As often as not you will be wrong in your assumptions. </p>

<p>I did a party for a person who I quoted a very low rate because they were in a dicey neighborhood and had hired an inexpensive caterer. I thought I would help them out. When I got there I was pretty surptrised when one of my good friends walked up to me to say hi. This friend told me the person I was shooting was a millionaire many times over. She just chose to keep a low profile. The caterer was cheap and, sadly, so was the photographer but I know of few backyard parties that pour Dom Parignon as the house champaigne. It was a lesson to me. Later the lady asked my why I had charged so little and I leveled with her. She said "that's what you get for assuming."</p>

<p>The only thing worse than making a bad presentation is not making one at all. You never know who the person knows. Remember the branding video? If that photographer had blown her off because she couldn't afford his normal rate he would not have a heavy hitting influencer touting his ability in seminars all over the country. And he cashed the check for her wedding.</p>

<p>You never know who knows who. I want to tell my story to everyone who will listen. </p>

<p><em><br /></em></p>

[think27]

<p>The Devil's Advocate approach from Steve is actually helping to create interesting and informative responses....</p>

<p>William, your example was spot on. We dined and became familiar with the food, staff and environment of the hotels. A small investment considering the outcome. I'd mention to the couple that I'd eaten there and the food was fabulous etc.. The F&B manager knew me well... The hotels were very happy to have me meet my couples in the lobbies and many of the meetings resulted in bookings and dinners for the wedding. The hotels all had a preferred vendor list but I know from the calls I got from the brides that I was the top preferred vendor. The bride would say -"Topnotch Resort and Spa" or "The Green Mountain Inn" or "Trapp's Family Lodge" said you were the best" Topnotch knew they could count on me for photos and the staff knew us (we also tipped well ;-) personally. This was one of my best methods of networking.</p>

<p>Rick - your point is so true. I learned my lesson from Tiffany's. I went there tasked with buying a $2,000 or so music box for my bosses client with company cash. I was wearing cutoff jean shorts, no jewelry and running shoes. They treated me like I was any other millionaire in the store - there in NYC. They didn't look at me like someone who probably couldn't afford to be there. I walked in and started looking around and a very gracious and attentive sales person approached me like I was royalty.. And, I purchased a very expensive music box. Lesson learned.</p>

<p>In Stowe, VT - 95% of my clients were from all over the country and the world. They were all destination weddings and high end. Occassionally, I'd get a call from a "local". Now some locals were very well off themselves but I had three that were not and I did not lower my price. My price was my price. One was a dairy farmer that drove to meet me in a very clunky broken down car. Sure, I said uh oh... but I treated the appointment the same way I would have with a wealthy client. Turned out she had been an art student and although she was having her reception at a Gun Club with salsa and chips and driving herself to the wedding, she was not going to skimp on photography which was more expensive than her dress, food, venue, honeymoon etc. combined! I had others that were not as extreme that chose low end venues that I had never shot weddings at or even considering marketing with that also were doing things like making their own bouquets and flower arrangements so they could afford a high end photographer. </p>

<p>And, as Rick says - you never know who people know ;-) Some guests at a low end wedding that may end up being impressed with you may be planning a super high end wedding down the road. I know, as it's happened to me.</p>

<p> </p>

[kiva]

<p>As I read the most recent posts it occurred to me that<strong> the marketing method a photographer chooses might be somewhat dependent on self awareness as well as by their personality and character. </strong> Neither of the two ends of the spectrum mentioned is "healthy" and neither is "unhealthy": people are different. Those are my assumptions.</p>

<p>If you have two photographers with similar technical skills and one has lived a life as a social animal with no hesitations about communicating with people (in fact they love that interaction) and the other photographer is more introverted and would rather observe and avoid the social interactions (not a bad thing at all) then <strong>the marketing "process"</strong> would be <strong>natural to one</strong> and <strong>full of tension for the other</strong> .</p>

<p>One would set out to meet and greet and dine with and send gifts and say the right things ... the other would gravitate to study, research and sending emails to avoid the social interaction at all costs. The above would define a spectrum of possibility and offers a challenge that requires photographers to assess where they "live" in the spectrum between the two extremes. Know thyself.</p>

<p>My observation, of course, can have multiple variations but I am concluding that some rise to the top level because they are well suited for it and others have to really try harder and overcome a lot of internal differences with what is Expected out of a top level photographer. And, yes, both photographers can attain the goal and serve as a top photographer ... but, are the top slots "reserved" for those who most naturally "fit" into that position: <em>those who are effervescent and do the social thing so well?</em> </p>

<p>Sometimes it's not just technique, which is what we seem to be suggesting but rather it's also a matter of character. The road is more challenging for some but that only means they will have to learn a few extra communication skills and overcome their natural tendencies which is to suggest <strong>they have to make a Conscious decision</strong> to step off the side lines and dive into the human to human interaction if the avoidance methods are not working very well.</p>

<p>Some will see the socializing and buddy-buddy behavior as sucking up to get the job while the other will see the sulking internal photographer on the sidelines as a coward who just needs to bear down and "get involved". </p>

<p><strong>How heavily does personality and character decide a marketing approach?</strong></p>

[gregory_c]

<p>Steve said: <em>"Some have proposed, and others have disputed, that all you need is good photography and a good website and you will get business.,,,, Invest in marketing before you invest in the latest and greatest DSLR."</em> You are right, Nowdays of website development, search engines, an internet crazed society, that is what it takes to get leads. Also being a pushy salesman. I have a wedding video friend, nice website, but lacks personality, kinda passive & cocky without any charm. He advertises in local bridal mags, bridal shows, but does not seem to get the weddings like he should.<br>

Rick said:: <em>"I did a party for a person who I quoted a very low rate because they were in a dicey neighborhood and had hired an inexpensive caterer. I thought I would help them out,,, the person I was shooting was a millionaire many times over. She just chose to keep a low profile. The caterer was cheap and, sadly, so was the photographer,,,the lady asked my why I had charged so little and I leveled with her. She said "that's what you get for assuming"</em> Been there, done that, over & over, but I have helped some that actually needed help. I believe that eventually hurts your business if you are not careful. You will find yourself feeling like you can not <em>measure up </em>to high paying clients or high charging photographers. I fell into that one also. I remember a local full time pro, he was good. Funny, I shot the exact same cameras as he did, we used the same lab, the lab employees said (without me asking) my work was as good or better than his. But I felt like I could not measure up to him. <br>

Wedding photography has changed, lot more photographers around, some shoot for 1/2 what others charge, some of these 1/2 price shooters actually produce very good work. The wedding venues are pounded with more & more photographers contacting them. The owners have their "favorites" they reccomend. Also with the internet, wedding vendor sites, etc. the part-timers have just as much exposure as the full time guys. Also there are more married women who are photographers. Before you jump me let me explain,,I am a part timer, I work a 40+ hour job. I am not available during the day to meet with prospect brides or visit wedding venues when they are not too busy. Also not able to do any portrait work, espically babies, they are at their best in the mornings. Photo'ing babies/small children is good for the wedding photographer for exposure to young parents with single friends.</p>

[steve_hovland]

<p>One thing to keep in mind is that in the US the pool of people coming up to marriageable age is not growing.<br>

Look at this chart: <a href="http://censusscope.org/us/print_chart_age.html">http://censusscope.org/us/print_chart_age.html</a><br>

This means that some people will probably be squeezed out of the business and that anyone who survives will probably be among the better marketers.</p>

[steve_hovland]

<p>Rick- I agree that in a first meeting with <strong>someone on whom you have no background</strong> you could not start with asking how much they have to spend, although somewhere early on you should try to get a feel for the budget.<br>

For example, if food and beverage cost is typically 50% of budget and photography is 10%, then if you can get the reception site and number of guests you can calculate some kind of reasonable range for food and beverage and have a feel for what they can afford for photography.<br>

If one of the women on my mailing list calls I already know what her income range is, and that may be a clue to her budget.</p>

[think27]

<p>Steve - again - not always true that you know what the income range. Many many brides have a priority.</p>

<p>What I did instead was ask couples what the most important aspect of their wedding day was for them.</p>

<p>Many said "photography"... These people were willing to spend over what you would think for good photography regardless of budget. Some saved money by wearing a sister or mother's wedding dress or did minimal flowers etc...</p>

<p>I can tell you "my" priority for my wedding was food. You'd think it was photography but no. For 27 people I paid $12,000 (very small wedding) and only $600 on photograpy (same as the cost of my tiara) from a photographer friend of mine. I was lucky.. but I can tell you I would not have spent more than $1,000 and would have found a creative way of getting good photos like a student or something. </p>

<p>It is often more about priority than budget.</p>

[think27]

<p>"I am a part timer, I work a 40+ hour job. I am not available during the day to meet with prospect brides or visit wedding venues when they are not too busy. Also not able to do any portrait work, espically babies, they are at their best in the mornings. Photo'ing babies/small children is good for the wedding photographer for exposure to young parents with single friends."<br>

__________________________________________________________________<br>

When I did that marketing in Stowe I spoke of? - I was a single mom working 50 hrs a week in a full time job. ;-) Slow season on weekends are a great time to market...</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>While it may be true that the market is diminishing a tad it doesn't really matter on a micro level. For example we have a growing hispanic population which is providing the opportunity for photographers to do quincineara's, some of which are just as elaborate as weddings. In your area I believe you will soon have a growing market for gay marriages which offers the opportunity for a greatly expanded market as well as some fresh ideas for the artistic side of what we do. Getting in early could be a big deal indeed. </p>

<p>While I am on the subject MaryBell mentioned something I would hope you would consider. She mentioned that many of her weddings were destination weddings. San Francisco is a frequent place for destination weddings as is the Napa Valley. Your might consider looking into marketing to this group. As soon as your supreme court reinstates gay marriages you will become a desination for couples from all over the country. Advertizing on gay orientated web sites and publications might really put you on the map. And while on the subject, these websites and publications may be a good place to advertize anyway as you will find (begging forgiveness for the stereotype) many people in the trade read these publications. </p>

<p>Marketing is actually fun if you take a micro rather than a macro look. I think that you may be concerning yourself with reasons why we can't succeed rather than looking for how we can. Plenty of folks are getting married. The birth rate is up to the highest since the baby boom. My tea leaves are saying we are in for good times in the industry. We can't be concerned about the photographers who fail. If someone wants to buy a book and a digital camera and call themselves a bargain-basement photog then so be it. They are not really the competition. They are competing with uncle Bill and his new camera. <em> </em></p>

[William Michael]

<p><strong>"How heavily does personality and character decide a marketing approach?"</strong><br>

<br>

William (Morgan), I think extraverted / introverted is part of it. <br>

<br>

Extraverted generally being more "useful" (a general term only) in some overt and face to face marketing the business: or at least <strong ><em >making the first move</em></strong>. Also, in the face to face extroverted might “win“. <br>

<br>

Take my "hypothetical" example (Hmm - not so hypothetical it seems) . . . possible the person (Mary / Me) with the more extroverted personality might have made the bigger initial "hit" if we both had made exactly the same "play".<br>

<br>

<em >*** </em><br>

<br>

The statement (in bold above) has an implication that <em><strong>one marketing </strong></em>approach or style will be decided upon. That would not be good. (I am not suggesting, William M, that you necessarily think that one approach would be good) <br>

<br>

Whether one is basically an introvert or extravert is not that important IMO: acceptance of variance can be managed by either personality type. Perhaps folk tending to the introverted personality might handle it better - flexibility, and knowing when to put one's ego in the wardrobe (closet), is more important IMO.<br>

<br>

Openness to all ideas and capacity to move one's ego to the background is more important than introverted / extroverted in shaping the marketing approach, I think. <br>

<br>

WW <br>

</p>

<p > </p>

 

[rick_m.]

<p>The key for encouraging an introvert to use an extroverted style more easily is to teach them how to do it. Right down to the words to say if necessary. Then they need to practice their presentation with their friends and business associates. <br>

<br>

Motivational speakers and those who teach sales theory are not very useful for the true introvert or painfully shy person. They know that they ought to be more out there they simply do not know how. And that adds to their fear. <br>

<br>

They need to study under a sales trainer whose style is more direct. In other words one which teaches them the words to say. The best I have ever seen at this is a man named Lee Dubois. His book "Everyone Sells" should be required reading for everyone in this business. Another who teaches a more specific approach is Brian Tracey from Canada. Another good starting point. <br>

<br>

I find it amazing that we will spend thousands learning lighting, posing, Photoshop, equipment of all kinds and accounting but not one penny on learning the real skill that will allow us to do all of the above. Selling. Many of us refuse to accept the undisputable fact that there are photographers out their whose skill set at photography leaves much to be desired but whose skill at face to face selling puts them in a tax bracket far beyond that of many far more talented of their peers. So many of us lack these face to face selling skills and falsely assume that if we are good enough marketers that we can overcome this failing. To some extent I suppose one can. Reading carefully what William (an expert marketer) said:<br>

<br>

<em>"I do not believe that Marketing & Advertising and Selling are two separate entities – when I am selling I am also Marketing, when I am Marketing I am also Selling – there are some who like to address each, individually – I think that is poor technique and time wasting."</em><br>

<br>

I absolutely agree with the first part but not the second. There is a facet of the above "selling" that has a skill set different from the theoretical... One needs to know the words to say. These words are used in marketing and advertising as well as in selling but it is, IMO, best to study the face to face presentation as a separate entity. Not because the techniques do not apply across the board but rather because it is too easy to get lost in the theoretical. A sales presentation done face to face is quite different from a marketing or advertising presentation because when done masterfully it is very personal and targeted. In the sales presentation we tailor what we say to the prospects needs, wants and desires. This requires that we learn the skills of blueprinting an individual face to face. This blueprinting is not based upon demographics or the law of averages. It is specific to one prospect/customer. And then we tailor this very presentation to the customer’s specifics. Any attempt to categorize or pigeon hole a customer is dangerous and almost always counter-productive. <br>

<br>

I will go so far as to say that if a photographer finds closing the harder over time than it was before it is usually not a demographic or market shift that is causing it. It is usually that the photographer gets into the "I have heard this al before and what you need is..." mode. Our experience makes us talk about what we have found most people want rather than what the prospect sitting right there says they want. To put it another way we stop asking questions and start pitching our product. And the selling gets very hard indeed. <br>

<br>

It is often said that we should avoid being high pressure. Think for a moment before you move on what you think is the definition of a high pressure salesman.<br>

<br>

The difference between a high pressure salesman and a professional salesman is that the high pressure salesman attempts to close the sale before the customer has made a favorable decision and is ready to buy. So unconvinced the customer feels pressure.<br>

<br>

And the way to eliminate this pressure and get the favorable decision is to ask tons of questions about what the customer wants, needs and dreams of and then show how your service will fulfill these dreams. Speaking in terms of these customer driven benefits is a pleasurable experience for the customer and the salesperson. They both find a friend. They trust each other. <br>

<br>

Just as a footnote. One can trace problems after the sale, as often as not, to a failure of the salesman/photographer to uncover exactly what the prospect wants. If they have a meeting of the minds right from the start the customer is far more likely to like the finished product. And refer us to their friends. </p>

<p > </p>

 

[William Michael]

<p><em>"I do not believe that Marketing & Advertising and Selling are two separate entities (. . .) I think that is poor technique and time wasting." </em></p>

<p>and then<br /><br /><em><strong>"I absolutely agree with the first part but not the second. There is a facet of the above "selling" that has a skill set different from the theoretical... One needs to know the words to say. . . etc "</strong></em></p>

<p >Rick, I read and then re-read your comments. I wanted to ensure I grasped your precise meaning. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I think I made an error in that the use of verbs was not precise enough, my point was meant to have been:</p>

<p > </p>

<p ><em>"I do not believe that [when one is doing] Marketing & Advertising and [when one is doing] Selling [that one is doing] separate entities – when I am selling I am also Marketing, when I am Marketing I am also Selling – there are some who like to address [the doing of] each individually – I think that is poor technique and time wasting [during the doing of them]”</em></p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I wanted to address the need for both an amalgam and flexibility<strong ><em >, when doing one’s presentations: no matter whichever general type of Presentation it happens to be.</em></strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p >I agree: the skills required are different. And I also agree that practice makes perfect. And I also agree that practicing little chunks at first and then putting it all together is one very good Practice Technique. I also agree that getting advice from experts, in any specific field of endeavour, is a good idea.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Perhaps a practical example might be useful, if I may return the previous hypothetical again, but please let’s not debate any Technical Words, only the thrust of the idea I am presenting: </p>

<p > </p>

<p >After Mary had outclassed my efforts with the Restaurant Manager, the result was she was meeting Prospects at that Hotel, every Monday afternoon. The Restaurant Manager was now suppling hors d'oeuvres and a glass of fine white wine (imported from the Barossa Valley) . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Meanwhile I was eating Peanut Butter Sandwiches and drinking instant Coffee in my office, wondering why my conversion rate had dropped . . . I digress . . . </p>

<p > </p>

<p >The point I am making is at these Monday afternoon Prospect <em >Sales</em> Meetings, even though Mary would be <em >Selling</em> to the Prospects, she would most likely (most assuredly?) be continually Presenting and ongoing (in real time) <em >Marketing Presentation </em>to the Restaurant Manager.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Does that explain the gist of my comment better? I think we (Rick and I) actually might agree? <em > </em></p>

<p > </p>

<p >*** </p>

<p > </p>

<p >It is interesting that you mentioned Brian Tracy, when he was out here to launch his “<em >The Psychology of Winning</em><strong>” </strong>I met with him, that must have been around 1982 or 1983, I think. My Wife was part of his initial team here – which was good, because as a spin off, I did work for him too. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >I personally learnt a great deal from Brian directly, especially when we had him over dinner one evening: I believe we have all his products in our library, and no, not all were gifts, we paid money for many. I recommend his work.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >***</p>

<p > </p>

<p >OK, so I do make the odd personal comment: I am not sure I am expert in Marketing, I think I am a very good Technician, that is my best natural talent I believe: even in regards to Photography I am a very good Technician and I have to work hard at the Creative. I have mentioned that before (and also in Management and Thinking I am a Technician). Even though these posts we do here are not a competition for me, I do have an ego: and it is big, (and mostly under control), so Thank You again, for the compliment. It is appreciated.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >WW</p>

<p ><strong> </strong></p>

<p ><strong> </strong></p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

<p > </p>

 

[pboraschi]

<p>This thread is definitely an interesting one, but there's one piece of information I didn't see mentioned anywhere: Flash penetration worldwide.</p>

<p>Stats are easily found around the web, but just go to the root and you find your answers:<br>

<a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/">http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/</a><br>

and here:<br>

<a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/PC.html">http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/PC.html</a><br>

To limit yourself and say that you are not using it because everyone else is, sounds a bit trivial. Flash is a tool and like any other tool you can make good or bad use of it. You are using Flash and you may not know it. I did noticed your YouTube slideshow, i it needs flash 10 to be viewed...If you use YouTube as a means for promotion, well 100% of YouTube viewers have flash.<br>

To say that Flash will be a thing of the past is a bold statement and frankly nobody can predict this. If anything a technology will get replaced but it won't just disapear to leave us with plain old HTML...Stats do show that Flash is here to stay for a while and it will only get better. However, anything is possible just by judging what is happening to the automotive industry...<br>

Someone mentioned that Google can't search Flash sites...I have found this link which suggests otherwise:<br>

<a href="http://www.beussery.com/blog/index.php/2008/10/google-flash-seo/">http://www.beussery.com/blog/index.php/2008/10/google-flash-seo/</a><br>

It's all about building smart. A fully HTML site with mostly images won't be more searchable than a Flash site containing just images...<br>

I get business from word of mouth because my clients like my work. But 100% of my non referral business comes from online. It is important to target your promotion for your site and analyze your site stats based on the market you are after. I know that my Friday Google analytics report will show a spike in traffic, mostly because of this post but i doubt that this will generate business...but then again i may be wrong...lol.<br>

Your website is an extension of yourself. I think there is a reason why brands spend millions of dollars on image and design. I think your site does not convey the right message and unfortunately i don't think will reach out to potential new customers that want to invest in photography services.</p>

<p>P</p>

 

<p > </p>

[rick_m.]

<p>I think we are in complete agreement William. I misunderstood part of your post. </p>

<p>In many ways being a good salesman revolves around being a good technician. Lee DuBois once said, "I can't tell you why people buy, but I can tell you why they don't buy; either thay are not aware of their problem or opportunity or they are not sufficiently disturbed by it." It is the job of a good sales technician to uncover what problems he/she can solve or what opportunities he/she offers and then make the prospect sufficiently disturbed or excited by them to decide to buy. That is pretty simple. Eisenhower said of leadershp: "Leadership is the art of getting other people to do what you want them to do because they want to do it." And that is exactly what selling is. The skills by which this is done are technical and scientific. They can be taught. </p>

<p>Most salespeople are taught to sell the way the Wright Brothers were taught to fly. And it is a damned shame. </p>

[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Or a good solution would be giving quality service and a product a client finds value in and an experience they can't get anywhere else. </p>

[willis_nelson1]

<p>Hello All,<br />I've been a constant reader of this site for quite some time but now (because of this topic)feel compelled to actually give a thought (about my experience).<br>

<br />Steve- <br />I also have tried the direct mail method. I invested a few thousand dollars into marketing and sales letters and materials to send to prospective brides. My target market list came form brides that had registered to on-line services and magazines. Both nationally and locally. In the period that I endeavored this method of marketing - about a year- I sent no less than 50 letters per week.<br>

<br />I believe that I was taught all of the elements that should work to have a prospective bride contact me. I believe that my letters we emotional and followed the rules of the marketing gurus. They included headlines, testimonials, pictures, special offers, a call to action and even sense of urgency deadlines. I later included a DVD slide show with some letters.I also sent follow up letters.<br>

<br />I wanted to separate myself using a direct mail method. I hand wrote (with blue ink) each and every mailing address of the bride.<br>

<br />The return on the investment was poor.<br>

<br />I am sure that I do not have the knowledge that you have. I have not completed Dale Carnage's course 3 times - but I did read "How To Influence People and Make Friends " ,once. And perhaps you may feel that in some way my direct marketing mailing were not as effective as your are.<br>

<br />Steve, I have been wrong about many things before. In the mist of my error - I could not (would not) see it. Later when I looked back I thought - What was I thinking!<br>

<br />I am sure that you know the importance of a website and INTERNET presence in this day and age. I just wanted to share with you my experience.<br>

<br />I admire your strength and determination.<br>

<br />I wish you success.:-)</p>

[steve_hovland]

<p>Willis- if you read Mitche Graf's book you will see photography gurus with far better credentials than me proclaiming that direct mail works great.<br>

Frankly, my program hasn't worked yet, but I will persist because it's the right thing to do.<br>

I think marketing starts with identifying a target, and a mailing list provides a sharply defined target by age, location, and ability to pay. <br>

I think one possible problem with bride lists is that you are competing with a lot of people from the get go.<br>

I think it's a problem to work a large geographic area like the whole country. My list is confined to the city of San Francisco. I am not working rich pools in the North Bay nor am I going after the very rich burbs like Hillsborough because I don't want to be driving a lot to see prospects or paying bridge tolls all the time. I have thought about moving to the mid-Peninsula to be close to that pool but it's not practical at the moment.<br>

In part due to this thread I have stripped down the mail package- a nice envelope, addressed on my laser printer, with a sample 4x6 inside. The sample has a label on the back with my contact information. I order these samples 100 at a time from the Kodak Gallery for 15 cents each.<br>

I have also acquired/started a list of wedding vendors who will get the same item. For vendors, sending a mailing may turn a cold call into a warm call.<br>

My thought is that if the picture doesn't inspire them to go to the web site then nothing else that I include will make much difference. It's also a lot faster to produce.<br>

I originally came back in to make some comments about packages.<br>

Packages are a long-established standard practice which may be risky.<br>

Awhile ago a young man came to PPGBA.ORG and mentioned that he had recently bumped his price from $5,000 to $10,000.<br>

Since his word of mouth pool probably hadn't changed, this probably means that he had previously left a lot of money on the table.<br>

Suppose someone comes in one day and signs up for your highest price package without blinking an eye. You might think this was great, but it could also mean that they got what they considered to be a bargain because their wedding budget was $250,000.<br>

Had you been doing a la carte pricing you could have gone down a list of things they could include and it might have gone up to $10,000. They can always back off from a total that is too rich for their blood.<br>

Don't take my word for this. Mindy Sonshine does a la carte starting with a $4,400 creative fee for two shooters for a day, delivering 600 4x6's. She adds on to the point where her average wedding is $12,000.</p>