Ab Bees VS Strobist Kit

[elizabeth_luna]

<p>So I finally have the money to purchase a mobile unit to take with me on weddings or travel with to take portraits on location, but I am still stuck between purchasing this..</p>

<p>http://www.alienbees.com/beginner.html - getting the 800 one<br /> Receiver and Transmitter - Vagabond II Portable Power system</p>

<p>or</p>

<p>Strobist Kit http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,12320.html</p>

<p>I actually placed a order for the strobist kit last month and had to cancel it because 80% of the items where not available.. even though there site said it was in stock. But anyway I am hoping someone can help me make up my mind.. I have and still continue to read a ton of reviews from here and other sites. I know its all based on individual preference.</p>

<p>Forgive me for ranting and thanks for your help,</p>

<p>Liz</p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>I'm a big fan of the Strobist concept of shooting good lighting on the cheap, but the kit here is totally out of line with that concept. To start, they're giving you a no-name flash, not even a classic Vivitar 285. They are throwing in minor piecemeal things like a roll of gaffer tape, which you need but it's an expendalbe, not hardware, and completely unecessary "wraps" to "protect" something. And they really drive up the price with PocketWizards, which are extremely desirable to have but by no means necessary if your'e just beginning. I would go back and read the Lighting 101 section on Strobist, and go buy the basics a piece at a time -- a Vivitar 285 or equivalent flash, a light stand and umbrella or softbox, long PC cord and/or optical slave. You can have all of that brand new for maybe $200. STart with the basics and go from there. If you prefer the Alien Bees, their package actually looks more reasonable. Which to choose has tradeoffs. Alien Bees are good solid studio strobes with more power, modeling light and quicker recycling than a Strobist style setup, but heavier and bulkier to carry and more expensive. A Vivitar based Strobist system is cheaper, much lighter and can fit into your camera bag (with the stand and umbrella slung over your shoulder), but doesn't have as much power or modeling lights. If you have an assistant, studio strobes may be the way to go. If you're on your own Strobist might be the way.</p>

[joshroot]

<p>These are two WAY different kits. One has a real studio monolight and a serious powerpack the other is just a pair of speedlight flashes.</p>

<p>Don't get me wrong, you can do a lot with the strobist kit. I didn't use much more than that for all of my wedding formal portraits 90% of the time. But comparing the two is a lot like asking "Should I buy a Honda Accord or a Ford F150 truck?". Well, do you want a sedan or a truck?</p>

[michaelbrochstein]

<p>I think Craig's advice is on target. If you have transportation for an Alien Bee setup then that is a setup that will last you a long time. Their modeling lights and greater power as well as their ability to take all the lighting modifiers that any professional studio flash system can use are solid advantages. FWIW, Pocket Wizards are great and you can add them whenever you like. If the need to be able to carry everything on your back is paramount then Craig's advice is also on target - buy a shoe-mount flash, a stand adapter, a compact light stand, an umbrella etc and go from there. If money is an issue then optical or cord slaving is much cheaper than a Pocket Wizard solution (which is an excellent long term investment).</p>

[.th]

<p>echo above comments, only you can decide if you need the honda or the f150...</p>

<p>if you go for small strobes though, you could lower the cost somewhat to considerably by choosing a viv285, (or about any second hand nikon flash that doesn't talk ttl to new bodies), skyports (elinchrom) or other lower cost brands for triggering instead of the pocket wizards, and if you're only getting one flash one brolly should be "enough" (and white/shoot-through is much more flexible, especially those with removeable black backing)... the stand and swivel adapter, color correction kit are all good choices though, imo...</p>

 

[elizabeth_luna]

<p>Josh - good point, I really want to go with AB as long as it's mobile enough to go with me 50% of the time my teenage son comes with me to assist. But other times I am on my own...</p>

<p>Yes I do plan on purchasing the receiver and transmitter from here<br>

http://www.alienbees.com/remotes.html</p>

<p>and http://www.alienbees.com/battery.html</p>

 

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p>How fast do you need your main lights to recycle (important on portraits)? how valuable do you think modeling lights would be to making better portraits?<br>

<br /> In reality you need both a Speedlight system and a system like the Alien Bees, Profoto, Dynalite, hensel, Elinchrom, Speedotron. It is not a binary thing: you really need both in your lighting kit.<br>

Photographers like David X. Tejada, Kirk Tuck, Joe McNally, the guy who runs Strobist, Zach Arias, Gregory Heisler, Marc Williams and myself (and of course others) can get great results with Speedlight centered kits becuse we already have a pretty good idea of how to use light to get certain effects, but none of us rely solely on them.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>I agree with Ellis. I own Alien Bees, and I use speedlights at times (though my lighting isn't as good as Joe McNally's). It depends on what I'm shooting and on how light I need to travel. Just be aware that the Alien Bee Vagabond II weighs 18.6 lbs. by itself. You may want wheeled carriers if you go that route.</p>

[.th]

<p>in ellis' reality, perhaps, you'd need more or less everything. in another reality you might not at all need all his gear, and i'm quite amazed that a photographer of his quality and experience makes blanket statement like this.</p>

[joshroot]

<p>I know of no professional portrait photographer (that uses stobes) who doesn't have a "real" lighting kit as well as a "speedlight" lighting kit. For that matter, I know of very few professional commercial photographers and only a few wedding photographers who don't have those as well. Every job takes a different set of tools. Working pros know this and unless they absolutely can't afford whatever it is, they will have it (or rent it).</p>

<p>I don't see ellis's comment as being out of line or incorrect.</p>

[.th]

<p>@josh, true. i just find it very unlikely that someone asking whether to buy an ab or a "strobist" kit is in the position where she <em><strong>needs</strong> </em> both.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

<blockquote>

<p>@josh, true. i just find it very unlikely that someone asking whether to buy an ab or a "strobist" kit is in the position where she <em><strong>needs</strong> </em> both.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Since that someone wrote that she professionally photographs weddigns and portraits, I think, fro mexperience that she does. So I thin kshe should save up a little more money so she can get both. The she'll need to learn how to use them to create the beautiful professional level of illumination she obviously wants to step up to.</p>

[elizabeth_luna]

<p>Thanks for your comments.. I will have to sleep on it.</p>

[bob_osullivan]

<p>It sounds like you might benefit from some "in between" lighting to start with. I'd look into Qflash and Lumedyne kits. Both can be had reasonably used on Ebay and used shops like Keh.<br>

I use WL/AB monolights, dynalite strobe packs, speed lights and these "in between" lights depending on what the assignment is. But If I had to pick only one type to do it all, I think the Qflash is most versitle.</p>

[elizabeth_luna]

<p>Isin't the whole Mobile Qflash set up $1000 plus? if not where can I purchase that at.</p>

[elizabeth_luna]

<p>Is this what I would need if I went with Qflash? Hope you can see it.</p>

<p>Err never mind link didn't work.</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/cart.jsp</p>

[steve_c.5]

<p>Here's my two cents: I would start with assembling your own Strobist-style shoe-mount flash kit, and then later add a studio-type strobe system when you can afford it. The shoe-mount flash units will travel much lighter and easier, and you can do weddings just fine with them. As for flash units, if your camera supports high-speed shutter technology, I would purchase dedicated flash units that also do HSS. I would use them with off-camera dedicated sync cords to take advantage of those TTL functions. For wireless triggers, I would not opt for PocketWizards, but the Alienbees Cybersyncs if budget is tight, and RadioPoppers if your budget allows. The RadioPoppers will support your flash unit's TTL functions and transmit/receive that information wirelessly, giving you a lot of creative freedom with radio trigger reliability. The Vivitar 285 basic flash units are good, but won't support those advanced functions. HSS is great technology to take advantage of in bright sunny conditions, for adding fill flash with high shutter speeds while keeping the flash synced.</p>

<p>You don't need a big Q-flash setup unless you've just got tons of money to spend. Sure they're nice, but you can shoot weddings just fine without one.</p>

[benb]

<p>I have an older strobist kit (like 6 months old). The big offender in that kit is not the new LumoPro flashes, they actually look pretty good assuming they are reliable. The nice thing is they have 1-stop more adjustment then the Vivitar 285HV that used to be offered. The Vivitars only go down to 1/16th, these go to 1/32nd. No big deal at all most of the time though.</p>

<p>The big offender is the pocket wizards. They are 50% of the price of the kit, and they are 10x the cost of some of the other options, and other then their extreme range IMO they really don't offer much beyond what the cheaper products offer. The extreme range is likely not important for a portrait or event/wedding setup. I know they are supposedly great but for what they are, they are very overpriced. I'm surprised no competing product has made much grounds, it's almost like Pro photographers are just buying PWs on name alone. In other spaces you can buy far more sophisticated radios for less then the cost of PWs.</p>

[carlwakefield]

<p>I agree with Steve. I would also get the speed lights first. You can always use them. But get Canon or Nikon what every goes with your camera.</p>

[joshroot]

<blockquote>

<p>and other then their extreme range IMO they really don't offer much beyond what the cheaper products offer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I have no experience with the cheaper knock-off radio slaves, though I have heard that they work well enough. I will say that <strong>I have beaten the crap out of my Pocket Wizards</strong> over the years and they have always come back for more. I've hauled them across the world, had them come crashing down when light stands fell, dropped them off the edge of 12 foot skate ramps, etc. I even had a battery leak all over inside on of my recievers and after cleaning it up, the thing is still working today.</p>

<p>My Pocket Wizards are one of the best investments I have made in photography.</p>

[s._lee_cashman]

<p>The eBay knock-off radio units are... less-than-reliable. I can't speak for anyone else, but I do know that they've failed <i>me </i>on many occasions. You get what you pay for. If you can't quite afford PWs (which, honestly, would be the best option were money no object), I might consider going with something like a CyberSync (which works wonderfully at about a third of the price).</p>

[richard_wang11]

<p>I use both PW Plus II and CyberSync's. Too bad they're not compatible. I went to CyberSync's because I need to control 6 heads and buying that many PW's wasn't in the budget. CyberSync's work great they do what they're suppose to do. Now use CyberSync's more than PW's. Keep the PW's around so I'm compatible with other photogs.</p>

[thomas_hardy1]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm surprised no competing product has made much grounds, it's almost like Pro photographers are just buying PWs on name alone.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I suspect they use them because they work. Same with Profoto Lighting. </p>

[jpo3136b]

<p>I have an ABR800 and a Vagabond II. Both are great pieces of equipment. Let me tell you this: 20 pound battery pack. Let's go over that again. Twenty pound battery pack. You may not be familiar with that enough: twenty pou . . .</p>

<p>The Vagabond II system is a "transportable" system. That's not the same thing as a mobile or a portable flash. If you need to do a studio shoot at some other location, like group pictures in a static setup, wedding groups, school gymnasium, fashion shoots in an abandoned warehouse, etc.; then, a battery pack with inverter is a great idea. With its strength and endurance, it will be superior to a portable flash because you can go and keep on going, uninhibited by power consumption. The Vagabond II does that job very well. However, it is a "transportable" system. It will work best in situations where you plan to go to another place, set up for a while, and then tear down and go home. This is a different manner of working than pulling a small unit portable strobe out of the bag.</p>

<p>Vagabond II will fire all day long, and do well as a "transportable" system. For portable flashes, it's tough to beat the smaller units; I recommend the Vivitar 285HV and its variants. With an AC adapter, the 285HV is basically a small studio strobe by itself.</p>

<p>Both methods are great; at some point it's best to have some of both of those capabilities; but transportable studio gear and portable flash in the camera bag will not be used with the same types of procedures (work methods and goals; lighting is lighting). Know your way of working, and you'll be able to pick the best one for your needs.</p>

[isaac_fast]

<p>My personal opinion: these things can be bought a lot cheaper than what it seems.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/425220-REG/Impact_DFUMK_Digital_Flash_Umbrella_Mount.html">$100 Light stands/umbrellas/umbrella brackets</a> , new, from B&H</p>

<p><a href=" total Quantum Radio Slave II</a> from KEH.com, used. 200+ foot range. (and accessory shoe from B&H)</p>

<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/63118-REG/Wein_W940001_PN_Peanut_Slave.html">$20 Wein Peanut Slave</a> for the flash that doesn't get the radio trigger. New.</p>

<p>2 Vivitar 285HV's or Sunpak 383's (or similar). About $100 each, shipped. $50-70, if you are willing to buy used.</p>

<p>Add another $50 for batteries, charger, shipping.</p>

<p>The LEAST you would have to pay is $340, for a completely accurate a reasonably powerful strobist kit. But be ready to spend around $370 if you can't find a good deal on the used equipment. If you don't like to buy used...well... good luck. Buying used would probably save you about $200 in this case.</p>

<p>Hope this helps!<br>

-Isaac</p>