Wow! What do I do?

[William Michael]

<p ><strong><em>"Maybe you guys are right about upfront payments. I'll have to chew on this a little more,"</em></strong></p>

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<p >Many things are paid for in advance. There are also subtle differences throughout the world as to what is and what is not paid in advance. </p>

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<p >Where I work, Australia, it is common practice for example, if one is building a swimming pool to have staggered, progress payments, usually five. This is common in all building trades for large amounts (usually over $2,000), and it is, I understand legislated somewhat. </p>

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<p >This is where I got the idea about three payments for my Wedding Photography, that and the fact that the client base I served were accustomed to this style of payment – it was simple to explain that the first payment was a non refundable deposit to secure a particular date, exclusively for their Wedding (Note: “Non Refundable Deposit” has a legal meaning, here.) </p>

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<p >This three payment system actually was quite profitable for my business: </p>

<p >> my prospects understood that they were NOT paying for me “In Advance” – which all my competition insisted upon. </p>

<p >> even though it was a small amount of the total money the Client held, until they were given the preview album (or later, arrived for the viewing), they felt it gave them some leverage over me, to perform to an appropriate standard.</p>

<p >> on the other hand, I also had leverage over the client, because I did not hand over the photos until the final payment was made – and should they have “done a runner” the last payment was small enough such that my expenses were adequately covered. </p>

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<p >Also, if we want to take a purely business approach, then whilst you are chewing on this issue, consider how many items our Photography Businesses pay for in advance: Rent; Insurance; (some) loan interest; Equipment hire; credit card inserted into the drive through car wash . . . and so on . . . even the coins into a pay phone, now that is a really old example . . . are there any pay phones remaining? </p>

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<p >I agree with William Morgan, 100%, MOSTLY ALL costs associated with a Wedding are paid in advance, and also where I live, for the clients I serve, very few items are paid for ON THE WEDDING DAY, that would be considered “gross”: so, for my business it was simply a matter of adapting a plan which was easily explained to, understood by, and with which the Clients were comfortable. When I started my business, the norm in our industry was: either 100% up front or 50% / 50% both payments prior . . . I was quite chuffed when I devised what became a much better plan for my business, but three payments will not suit all businesses.</p>

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<p >This topic in its various guises has been discussed on this forum many times. Invariably it gets sidetracked into a discussion about the moral issues of paying for something beforehand: that is not an issue at all – paying pro forma; making a deposit and part payments; paying a fee to hold a spot - are commonplace in many markets, all around the world. </p>

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<p >The question for each Wedding Photographers is to refine these common payment methods, to best suit their individual business.</p>

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<p >WW </p>

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[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>Appreciate the education William. The payment is issue is just not as simple as I was making it out to be, from an uneducated consumer's viewpoint. Not only do consumers have to protect themselves, but photographers do too.</p>

<p> I was definitely putting myself in the client's shoes. I mean the client had to endure all this wrangling over money and not even a lick of photography was done. Then came threats of breaking the contract, and legal fees, and lawyers, etc. It would make me want to run as fast as I could.</p>

[rayt]

<blockquote>

<p><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=991915">William Morgan </a>"I'll betcha' anything you paid for your "new" car before they let you drive it home, right?"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, no. The Lexus dealer let me take a car home for the night and drive it fully hoping that I would purchase the vehicle. The vehicle was in fact the vehicle that I was considering purchasing. It was not a demo.</p>

[kiva]

<p>Hi Raymond ... So a premium car dealer or two make your case eh. Interesting limitation.</p>

<p>Easy to upstage the car dealer (but the comparison is less than stellar, imo): I can show a bridal couple over 20 of my recent weddings (all image files!) and they will see the photographs taken from beginning to end. They won't have just a view "for the night" but instead they can see the consistency of my record over an extensive time period. None of the photos in all the wedding galleries are Demo photos; they're the real deal. You ride in one car that will be yours and you drive it on the same streets you drive all the time while I can show that my product will "drive" great on any "terrain" that I'm given and it can handle any weather or situation at hand. Can your Lexus go off road? </p>

<p>I can't test drive a wedding before the wedding; it's hard to test drive something that occurs in the future but I can "demonstrate" that I can handle any situation I'm given and not be limited to a smooth drive over the same terrain that I drive almost daily. Your comparison is truly lacking, imo ... but, I'm jealous you're buying a Lexus so quite your bragging (wink).</p>

<p>I will substitute giving a bridal couple more than twenty full weddings to visually "test drive" and they'll see that I can easily handle streets as well as any off road situations or weather: <strong>now that's more than an overnight test ride on familiar streets in my book.</strong> (smile).</p>

<p>Have fun with that car Raymond but do keep it on those nice smooth streets or you'll find it's just another box with four tires and a great disappointment anywhere but that easy going smooth sailing road or street.</p>

<p> </p>

[William Michael]

<p><em><strong>"I was definitely putting myself in the client's shoes. . . It would make me want to run as fast as I could."</strong></em><br>

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Yes, Jeffrey, <strong ><em >I think this is an excellent point.</em></strong> <br>

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I think that many businesses (including W&P Photographers) do not think of this <strong><em>each time they have a new prospect at their door </em></strong>. . . <br>

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It is easy for a Vendor to get into a rut, accepting what "normal business practice": when the prospective customer might be ignorant of what is actually "the norm" and how the whole mechanism functions.<br>

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By the time the Prospect is educated and realizes what common practice is, they have usually moved on to Photographer number three and Cake Maker number four . . . if you get my point.<br>

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WW </p>

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[cathy_and_david_bock]

<p>Exactly what Tobey said. </p>

[jeffrey_prokopowicz]

<p>William, in a sense, I should understand the business person's plight, especially in the current climate. I have a rental property that's currently vacant, a condo to be exact. Prior to the collapse of the economy, I had no problem leasing it at a very reasonable price. Now, folks are coming through and making these incredibly low-ball offers that are insulting, really, considering the fairness of the amount of rent I ask for. And it angers me too considering that even though the economy is not great, the people who are working are doing fine, and ironically even better than before since the cost of goods and fuel has deflated. The reality is that people have the money but they are afraid to spend it, so instead they will try to squeeze a guy like me all the while crying poverty.</p>

<p>My point, in a round-about-way, is that I can just imagine the kind of games people must be playing in dealing with wedding photographers. If they have a difficult time ponying-up a more than fair rental fee, how much more difficult it must be for them to pay for things like photography, so I can see why small business folk/ entrepreneurs must keep their guard up. Best wishes, and thanks!</p>

[William Michael]

<p><strong><em>"Best wishes, and thanks!" </em></strong>to you too.</p>