henrik_lauridsen Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>I hope this is the right forum for my question, as I could come up with at least 3 where it would fit :-)<br /> My question is this. I shot the photo below yesterday. Even if it is not fine art, I am quite pleased with it. However, there are a few things that I would have liked different.<br /> 1. The wingtip on the right (the birds left) looks great at a glance, but up close it is not that sharp)<br /> 2. The waterdrops in the air are blurred, I would have liked them to be sharper.<br /> The photo was shot with a Canon EOS 400D, 70-200mm f/4 USM non IS, at 200mm f/6.3, 1/400 sec, 100 ISO (set the camera on P, autofocus on AI servo). Colour and contrast adjusted in Lightroom.<br /> My question is, with this equipment, would it have been possible to improve the shot as outlined, by choosing a faster shuttertime (1/1000+) and same aperture? Obviously I would have to crank up the ISO.</p> <p><a title="Fight!, by necator" href=" title="Fight!, by necator"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3375132463_299301b84b_m.jpg" alt="" width="480" height="320" /> </a><br> Link to <a href="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3462/3375132463_9de4ee3da2_o.jpg">original size </a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howard_m Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>one ISO stop to 200 would have given you 1/800th shutter speed which probably would have worked well although it's certainly possible (I haven't bothered looking) that part of the problem is that focus wasn't that good to begin with.</p> <p>some photoshop unsharp mask might give you a little relief here too.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
images_in_light_north_west Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>In short yes, but at a higher ISO. Birds in flight always need to be shot fast. Its hard to tell from such a low resolution shot how sharp this shot is, best to practice and keep trying untill you are happy. If this Swan is an opportunity you have to shoot a lot, get back out there and see what differance a faster shutter speed makes.<br> Regards, Ross.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phule Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>[[birds in flight always need to be shot fast]]</p> <p>Just to clarify: Birds in flight, where you want to freeze all motion in the scene, need to be shot fast.</p> <p>Not all birds and not all motion of or around birds needs to be frozen in time. :)</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Laur Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>It's worth noting that the smaller image shown above has been butchered by the resizing and compression that created it. Here is a 100% crop from the larger image to which Henrik has linked (just trying to help the conversation deal with the facts - since that small image above is very misleading).</p><div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Laur Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>This would definitely have benefitted from a higher shutter speed. Even losing some quality by using a higher ISO - which has its own costs - would have been worth the trade-off, since a little bit of noise in the background water wouldn't have mattered, and little or none would have shown on the white bird.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan_meador Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>I would have shot at f4, since you don't really need much DOF for this subject, that alone would give you a bit more shutter speed to work with. Nothing wrong with going to ISO 200 or maybe even 400, anything to get you up to 1/800 shutter or higher. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrik_lauridsen Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>Thanks Matt. I was being very careful not to use too much bandwidth, your crop helps my question along nicely. I will try with a faster shutter speed next time. It should not be a problem to get another photo op with these birds. There are several of them, and they are aggressive towards their fellow species.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdehaan Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 <p>Henrik, when I shoot wildlife, I shoot as follows for birds in flight:<br />Aperture priority, f/6.3 to f/8, I crank up the ISO until my shutter speeds are 1/800 or higher. I shoot center AF point only on servo. I find that shooting aperture priority keeps me fairly consistant. I used to shoot manual, but was missing a lot of shots while changing settings as the birds/animals moved into darker or brighter areas. I have a 400D and 40D. I would not hesitate to put that 400D at ISO 400 on your next outing.<br />When I first started shooting wildlife, I thought shutter speeds that froze "human" movement would be applicable....nope. Critters are much fast than us. <br />Derrick</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangoldman Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 <p>The 350D, one model older, definitely lacks in the autofocus department when compared with other dSLR's. There is no problem with shooting, at least on my camera, up to ISO 400 during daylight. The problem is that there is more apparent noise at high iso's in less light...<br> I always shoot just about everything in M, that way if something in the frame suddenly reflects etc the meter doesnt get thrown off.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimitoucan Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 <p>Henrik, Nice shot, I wouldn't be so concerned with freezing all movement. From the close up image the head looks sharp and in focus. That's the main thing. A slightly blurred wing shows motion and this bird is moving! Don't sweat the small stuff. We are way too focused on having everything perfectly sharp. (pun intended) What's more important is the composition. Does the image move me? The only thing that would improve the image is more room in front of the bird for it to fly into and a little more foreground, or forewater.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henrik_lauridsen Posted March 26, 2009 Author Share Posted March 26, 2009 <p>Thank you all for the input. Jim, I am also quite happy with the shot, I was just wondering how to do it, if I wanted it super sharp, and if it was possible with the 400D body. I am not worried about the lens, that is one seriously quick AF.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangoldman Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 <p>The 70-200 has great AF, very fast. The rebel, which controlls the AF, is not always fast or accurate. You have to be careful about motion blur. Motion blur on the wing tips, background, excellent. Blur on the head, not so much. The eye, in this style of shot, must be as sharp as possible.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert becker Posted March 31, 2009 Share Posted March 31, 2009 I would agree with Derrick's comments. I typically shoot in Aperture Priority mode with the lens stopped down one stop from wide open. Keep the ISO as high as you need to provide a very fast shutter speed. I routinely shoot with the ISO at 800. The trick to avoiding noise associated with the high ISO is to use exposure compensation to keep the histogram toward the right without blowing the highlights. Noise will become evident when you allow the shot to become underexposed. Just an FYI, you can pick up tons of great information from Art Morris on his website www.birdsasart.com and www.birdphotographers.net Keep shooting, Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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