Mac vs. PC....I NEED to be convinced. :)

[patricklavoie]

<p>buy a big pc</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>whatever you could afford, like, are comfortable with, have friend around to help, still have money to get equipment, get some book and tutorial on the subject.</p>

<p>theres is nothing one or the other wont be able to do Photoshop related vs the other...</p>

<p>on the mac platform, the Imac i the best bet for a amateur / pro alike if you work with a 12meg file..euh i mean if you work with REAL file size image normally around 50meg..ANY computer will work that : )</p>

<p>on the pc platform, any pc is the best bet for a amateur / pro alike if you work with a 12meg file..euh i mean if you work with REAL file size image normally around 50meg..ANY computer will work that : ) a HP, a Dell, a Acer..anything.</p>

<p>You dont have to built your own PC, you can buy *ready to go*, as Kelly mention, not all people are comfortable doing it or care doing it (like me).. dont feel stupid if you dont want to do it.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>For holding down tarps an old Tombstone Mac looks cooler; but it tends to blow off/over in high winds. A desktop PC never seams to blow off of the tarps. Having both is the best idea; one show you are creative; the other that you are technical. The memory chips were removed from the PC and placed in an ultrasonic cleaner; thus the PC's cover is off. Long ago folks debated whether to buy a IBM PC or a clone; thats when an IBM 286 might be 3 to 5 grand and a clone PC 2 grand. The PC in the image is a IBM PL300 with a Pentium III; the Mac is a SE30. Specs seems to not matter as much when they are used to hold tarps.<br>

<img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/KATRINA/P1010025shingleMACPC.jpg?t=1235915167" alt="" width="460" height="401" /></p>

<p>Both Mac's and PC's tend not to work well after going under salt water. Note the Bessler 23c did not get flooded.<br>

<br /> <img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/KATRINA/P1010037acunit.jpg?t=1235915475" alt="" /></p>

<p><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/KATRINA/P1010044crap.jpg?t=1235915565" alt="" width="600" height="450" /></p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>LOL for the joke..but dam, i pray for the family that had to suffer that!...loosing there mac..what a sad thing.</p>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<p>Sometimes at the summer home I place a piece of scrap 2x4 under the old Mac SE30 so it is at an angle/unstable ; so it purposely "crashes" on windy days; to "prove" that Macs can crash more than PC's! :)</p>

[thomas_hardy1]

<blockquote>

<p>Long ago folks debated whether to buy a IBM PC or a clone; thats when an IBM 286 might be 3 to 5 grand and a clone PC 2 grand.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>We had a 286 clone {back in the day}, yep it cost about $1600, only ran DOS, had a miniscule amount of RAM, and had a tiny HD. We kept it running for 6 years using it for word processing, tax programs, Aldus Persuasion, posting to bulletin boards (remember those), and playing games. Ah, the good old days.</p>

 

[bieg]

<p>Macs are rated #1 in customer satisfaction.<br>

Intel Macs can run both Windoze and Mac OS-X, PCs can't run OS-X (legally).<br>

OS-X is color sync aware so your color looks the same across all programs.<br>

OS-X is Unix based and more secure.<br>

The Mac OS is what Microsoft copies (lamely) since 1984, so why not go with the original?<br>

Macs are elegant in both design and operation. Some of us appreciate that.<br>

Most people who have owned or at least used both choose Macs and never look back.<br>

You can set your Mac up to do everything and not have conflicts.<br>

OS-X is the BEST operating system and just keeps on getting better and faster.<br>

You don't have to buy a new machine every time the operating system is updated.<br>

You can walk into any Apple Store and get competent help for any problem you might have.<br>

Speaking of Apple Stores that is another thing Microsoft is trying to copy and will fail miserably at.<br>

Do you want a Zune or an iPod? <br>

I have been a Mac user for about 20 years and have NEVER used a virus program and never needed one.<br>

Do you want to be a computer nerd or a Photographer? </p>

<p>You pay your money you get your pick. Good luck. </p>

[paul_alford]

<p>>>> PCs can't run OS-X (legally).</p>

<p>Says who? Mr Jobs? What a load of tosh. I've spent the day researching the idea of popping OS X on a PC. Here's the deal.</p>

<p>I can LEGALLY buy a copy of Mac OS, and I can install it on a PC, given it contains compatible hardware. Job done. I didn't realise how easy this was until a couple of posters pointed me in the right direction. So, unless there is a clause in the licence agreement that says I can only install my shiny new copy of Mac OS X Leopard on Mac hardware, it's LEGAL.</p>

<p>As for the computer nerd or photographer comment. I think I'd rather buy that gorgeous EF 85mm f1.2L Series lens than shell out all that extra cost on a Mac, especially as the PC get's me to the same point as the Mac user, probably faster, and with that lens, with a better end result, if you get my drift here.</p>

[bieg]

<p>Anyone can LEGALLY buy a copy of OS-X. It is only illegal to run it on non Apple hardware. Running it on a hacked PC to get around the "Trusted Platform Module" violates the software license. <br>

Like I said before you Pay your money you get your pick.</p>

<p>For MY MONEY nothing beats a loaded Mac Pro running OS-X.</p>

<p>The bottom line is sure I could build up a frankenstein PC (like the nerds want to do) that would match my Mac Pro Tower in a speed test rendering Photoshop files. Why should I bother? Who needs the aggravation? Build up a Dell or whatever to the specs of a Mac Pro, then add all the software you get (like iPhoto, ect....) and you don't save much money and you still have a Dell running Windoze. Like they say "You can dress up a Pig and teach it to dance but at the end of the day you are still dancing with a pig" Some of us are willing to pay a premium for the whole Mac user experience which comes with the hardware and software. Less BS and more uptime to work no worries about viruses and all the arcane Windoze crap you need to do to keep them running halfway decent.</p>

 

[patricklavoie]

<p>Paul, you will love the 85mm 1.2..it was my first lens when i got the 5D 2 years ago..what a lens : )</p>

<p>What a cruel and discusting idea to dance with a pig!..dam Steve, what kind of man are you!?</p>

[charles_wood]

 

<p ><a href="../photodb/user?user_id=1147805"><i>Steven Biegler</i></a><i> </i><a href="../member-status-icons"><i><img title="Subscriber" src="http://static.photo.net/v3graphics/member-status-icons/sub5.gif" alt="" /></i></a><i>, Mar 01, 2009; 03:58 p.m.</i></p>

 

<p ><i>Anyone can LEGALLY buy a copy of OS-X. It is only illegal to run it on non Apple hardware. Running it on a hacked PC to get around the "Trusted Platform Module" violates the software license. <br />Like I said before you Pay your money you get your pick.</i></p>

<p ><i>For MY MONEY nothing beats a loaded Mac Pro running OS-X.</i></p>

<p > </p>

<p >It depends on what you want to run on your computer. The entry level video and photo editing programs that come supplied with the Mac are a joke. I know, I own a loaded Mac Pro and they're useless for me. So I have to deal with Final Cut Pro at far more money than SONY Vegas 9.0 or Pinnacle. Try burning a BluRay disc with your MAC. It can be done with work around software such as Roxio Toast (in itself unreliable) but you can't burn a BluRay directly from any of the entry level MAC video editing software. That's one thing you can do on a PC you can't do on a MAC.</p>

 

 

[bieg]

<p>As opposed to the entry level programs that come bundled on a PC? iMovie is designed for the average person who wants to edit their home movies. Nobody expects you to edit the Blair Witch Project on iMovie. That being said you can output to quicktime Pro and burn it with Toast onto your Blu-Ray disc without a problem. I just did it the other day as a matter of fact. Final Cut Pro is Pro grade software and is priced accordingly. The whole iLife and iWorks packages from Apple are excellent all around programs for non-pro use. Aperture and Final Cut Studio are excellent Pro Grade packages. </p>

<p>Since you have a Mac Pro you can run any Windoze programs you want anyway so you have the best of both worlds. </p>

[david_barts2]

<blockquote>

<p>Anyone can LEGALLY buy a copy of OS-X. It is only illegal to run it on non Apple hardware.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Which to me is yet another example of why "illegal" and "immoral" are two different concepts.</p>

[paul_alford]

<p>>>>Running it on a hacked PC to get around the "Trusted Platform Module" violates the software license. Like I said before you Pay your money you get your pick.</p>

<p>Hang on a sec Steve. The minute Apple started using Open Source code in their OS they basically nullified any licensing they might try to wave past users. Surely they would have to own the intellectual property to ALL the code in the OS to make a case. I'm sure that if they ever tried to pull this stunt the Open Source community would turn pretty quickly.</p>

<p>As for paying your money, hell you're right, as a Mac user, you do. Don't get me wrong here, I have no beef with the OS or infact the hardware. I think it is good equipment. My beef is with the pricing of that kit and the elitist attitude it seems to have engendered. I posted above how much pretty much the same spec machine I am running that came in at just over $3k (inc Eizo monitor). </p>

<p>The same Mac Pro was well over $8k. That's just ridiculous beyond belief. Fine, if money is no object, but to a photography trying to advance their career, as the thread starter is (though they are conspicuous by their absence - did they start a thread knowing full well how it would unravel and are now sitting back and watching with glee - lol), that extra $5k is surely better spent elsewhere.</p>

[patricklavoie]

<p>Paul, im curious to see what can you put in a mac that make it cost 8k? I dont argue since the beginning that a mac is more expensive than a PC..but i work everyday with one and it cost me around 3500$CAN, and i can get the job done as fast (or close too if whe talk about annosecond) as you... pound..could it be that you pay more in the UK for the same Mac heres in North America?</p>

[paul_alford]

<p>Patrick, the following is the Mac spec. I've popped in my spec next to the important bits.</p>

<p>One 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel - Core 2 Quad 3GHz $350<br />8GB (4x2GB) - Patriot Viper 8GB in 2GB matched pairs $250<br />Mac Pro RAID Card - I use an Areca Card $275<br />1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s - Samsung for me $100 each<br />1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s<br />1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s<br />1TB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s<br />NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB - GeForce 9800GT $150<br />One 16x SuperDrive<br />Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) - Eizo 22" ColorEdge $1450<br />I have included the Apple Display as I use an Eizo monitor (not 30"). It does come in less, but I accounted for that in my overall cost summary. Add extras like power unit, heat sinks and mobo and it comes in just over $3100.</p>

<p>UK prices are higher. We pay in pounds what you pay in dollars. I'm living in mainland Europe at the moment and with the weak pound against the Euro I'm picking up plenty of bargains from the UK.</p>

[joe hewes]

<p>Hi,<br>

Wow, what a thread! Only to be expected on this topic.<br>

 

My experience: I was processing hundreds of photos (basic sharpening, levels) in Elements 3 on a Dell laptop, admittedly not well-suited to the task. So I thought, well, this is my chance to TRY a Mac. Let's give it a shot.<br>

 

I have a 24-inch iMac, 320 GB hard drive, 2.4 GHz processor that I got from the Apple refurb shop. Saved me about $300 that I spent on 4 GB of third-party RAM and Apple Care.<br>

 

This made processing photos MUCH easier (no brainer, going from a three-year-old laptop). It took a while to get used to the way the thing worked. The big screen is great for processing photos and the glossy screen does not bother me.<br>

There were other things I came to like about the Mac, specifically the way apps tend to be more integrated. I love iWeb. There are some things I don't like about Finder (the Windows Explorer equivalent), specifically the fact that it does not show the date and time a photo was created, only the time-stamp of when it was created on the hard drive. There is third-party software that gets around this but was a bit of a bug for me in the beginning. Now I generally use Adobe Bridge (came with Elements 6) and I hope to migrate to Aperture for asset management soon. You kind of have to let go of file management if possible and let your app and the Mac handle things. My current workflow is still very much folder-based so letting go will happen, but not right away.<br>

 

Am I happy with the iMac and Apple? Yes. Will I replace my laptop this year with a Mac? Maybe. The point of all this is to say that you won't really go WRONG one way or the other, and you might see this as an opportunity to see what the Mac hubbub is all about. </p>

[philfx]

<p>Reply to Barry...<br>

I use the finder, but the Mac version of CaptureOne is so limiting vs the PC version, I have to domp it to the PC. Also, I am really enjoying ACDSEE 2.5. I know this company made some great promises in the past but always had issues, but this 2.5 Pro is rather stable compatible and FAST! I never got into Aperture, or Lightroom, as Raw edits are just peachy out of CS3/4 as long as you know how to use it.<br>

I upgrade the main post editors every2 years at least...as the files we work with get bigger and bigger 300 to 1.5GB. But I think we have come to a platue in the pixel size war, and hope that we don't have to upgrade so often. Maybe after this last upgrade, it will be 3 to 5 years before it needs another boost.<br>

As far as the Explorer vs Finder...Explorer is much nicer to deal with, and that is simply something that I am likely used to as I find it being the inner stucture of the files, where on Finder, it is still some GUI that is dishing stuff at you vs, showing you what is available to you...Thats the best I can explain it.<br>

I agree with most techs here, that recommend the MAC over the PC...it will likey be user proof longer than the PC. My relatives recently got a iMAC, and they love it. They do family photo stuff and such, and think it is the coolest thing next to their Nambe desk ornaments, and such, but they dont use it for work, they dont have a business to upkeep. Best comment as far as wise on spending was Paul Alford...The glass you look through is where you should shell change....For someone who is comfortable with both platforms.<br>

I too felt dirty posting on this thread, but I think there are reasons or specifics that the guy 300 posts earlier might relate to closer with his /her situation....The Mac Mini is another great sollution, which I also have had for mainstream stuff. <br>

I would not trade my PC for the best MAC out there...and thats just because I am happy with the way all the little tweaks are setup on my PC. It would take days to duplicate on a new platform, and I dont think I would be able to manuver on the MAC as fast as I could with the PC. The workflow alone on the PC to me is faster.</p>

 

[bieg]

<p>Paul,</p>

<p>Are aware that the Mac will use the same SATA drives as yours? You also don't have to buy your memory from APPLE. Most of us buy our drives and memory from OWC. I think your comparison is way off.</p>

<p> </p>

[charles_wood]

<p><em>Since you have a Mac Pro you can run any Windoze programs you want anyway so you have the best of both worlds. </em></p>

<p>Actually, you can't. Neither<em> </em> VM Fusion or Parallels recognize a firewire source when you're running Windows on a MAC, and that eliminates the possibility of using an HDV source and SONY Vegas on a MAC. Vegas is a more flexible piece of software than any of the entry level MAC video editing programs and it doesn't break the bank, and you can burn a BluRay without having to use Toast, which has a reputation for being unreliable. Having used both, I find Vegas more intuitive and equally flexible for my needs, with a faster learning curve than Final Cut Pro.<br>

I might be able to run Windows on my MAC using Bootcamp but then I'd not be able to run Windows and OSX simultaneously, so why bother!</p>

 

[jonathans]

<p>Wow, that's a long thread. And filled with the usual sniping back and forth. I'm just going to address the issue of building your own PC:<br>

Do you want to be a PC Tech? Do you want to spend your nights swearing at your computer because it randomly shuts off? Do you love tearing a computer down component by component, cleaning the contacts as you go, and putting it back together, praying a connector doesn't break, a screw doesn't strip, and that nothing shorts out as you put back together for the umpteenth time? Thrill to the thought of spending hours or days trying to track down exactly which part is malfunctioning (assuming it's not somewhere in the software after all) so you can figure out which manufacturer to call to get it replaced (hmm, wonder if the RAM or the video card is bad...)? Doesn't sound like your cup of tea? Then don't build your own PC. You're not going to save much, if any, money and given the price of PCs today, odds are you aren't going to be upgrading it (cheaper to buy a new PC in 2 years and donate the old one to charity for a tax write-off), and you're stuck being your own tech support. Purchase a computer (Mac/PC/Whatever) from as reputable a manufacturer as you can find and be done with it if you want to actually get some photography done. <br>

As far as a PC or a Mac - flip a coin. The tradeoffs between each tend to even out in the long run. The Mac has a better user interface in general, the pc is cheaper and has more software (you can try all 7,327 version of minesweeper). But if what you want is just a tool to help you produce photographs, they're both going to work just fine. <br>

No matter which you choose, budget for an external hard drive at least as large as the internal one (if not larger) and use it for a backup. If you're hoping to make money off your photography buy two or three. One to stay connected to the computer, and two to rotate between - you'll copy your "can't bear to lose" images to these, one stays in the house somewhere (not next to the computer, tucked away somewhere reasonably hidden) and the other lives off-site in a safety deposit box, friend's house, workplace (if they'll allow it), whatever in case the worst happens. I can tell you from experience, the only thing worse than having your computer hiccup and spending weeks recovering your data is having your computer hiccup and *not* being able to recover it at all. </p>

[Uhooru]

<p>@ Phil, are you talking about Capture 1-4 version? Because if so, there is a big change from the last version. You have to now buy the Pro version to get the capabilities that were stock before, I believe (I just started with the current version).<br>

Personally I think Cap 1 is the best raw converter out there, I get consistently much more accurate color from C1 then anything else. I still like using LR for managing and adjusting images after converted, but now I take a whole extra step and convert in C1, export and import the tiffs into LR. Isn't that wacky? If i can finish them in LR, great, if not I edit in CS3, at the moment. Wacky no?<br>

But really, i have no stake about what system you prefer, but I still don't understand what you are saying about finder v. Explorer. I used windows and still do and when I started mac, it took about an hour to get comfortable with finder though at first I had to get used to the conventions, but became 2nd nature quite fast. I've only known OSX, but the finder is basically basically the same exact thing with different names. You have a list of your drives, you click on the drive, and you have a folder hierarchy just like windows, I don't know what you are talking about "dishing stuff at you".. Do you mean that on the main drive it has categories for "Applications" "movies" that type of thing? It's really not that different from Windows with its My Computer and My documents My pictures, My music etc. And just like windows, you can move your apps into any folder you wish and rename them. You can install them on different drives if you want. It's true, because OSX is unix based the "program files" are different and named differently. But then there's no registry to worry about either. Or do you mean the dock? <br>

I mean if it's a problem for you, then I have to take it at face value that it bugs you. That's cool. But I just wondering if you are making it more of a problem than it really is. Most of us who switched or in religious terms...converted..:) didn't seem to have a problem with it.</p>

<p> </p>

[paul_alford]

<p>Steve, I am aware Mac will use the same drives as I do, but why do they charge me $450 a unit when I can get them for $100? I agree you don't have to buy drives and memory from Apple but I disagree that most Mac users buy and install their own. working in this industry has brought me into contact with many, many Mac users and I think I could say that the vast majority of those that I have more than just a passing relationship, either wouldn't know where to start or just wouldn't consider that as an option.</p>

<p>I actually asked the question of a Mac using colleague a couple of days ago as this thread started to unwind and he said to me "After investing what I have in my Mac I'd be mad to invalidate my warranty by opening the thing up and tinkering inside". I think that comment sums it up. I know I wouldn't if I ever purchased one and I'm quite happy putting together PC's.</p>

[philip_roberts1]

<p>I have to say this has turned into a totally pointless thread and I am sure the original question remains unanswered to the questioners satisfaction. Seems to me that we are all spending far to much time on computers and not out taking pictures (after all this is photo.net , not computeruser.net).<br>

SWITCH OFF THE COMPUTER AND GET OUT THERE WITH YOUR CAMERAS!</p>

 

[philfx]

<p>Barry, You first paragraph makes perfect sense to me. But I do use the DB that came with my back and have update 3.78, or something up there. I have been advised with Phase owners not to do the 4.0 upgrade yet, as there are issues. I am perfectly happy with thiss version, and I dont use Phase for my other formats/slr gear. What I was referring to for the Mac, it captures and places the file in a folder structure that doesnt make sense to me. You go to the folder setting within C1, and it gives you all these options to save and it to me looks like a mess. On the PC, it is the same as the Win Explorer. I don't have much an issue with the Finder on its own, I do get ticked when it loses a Net connection and wants to "Fix" and alias name. The C1 I think has the edits and the raw files, if not more with each image, and in Win you can see them all, yet in Finder, you dont know what moved and what didn't, this usually works fine, but I have had issues of files moving correctly from the mac to PC. I also must say, I am comfortable with the Win XP interface, and rely on it for FTP, Email, BookKeeping...these are all realities of business. I rather have people on a system that I can replace when they are not around, and this is the PC platform. Often I do the finalizing. With multiple systems, I find the PC realiable in a network environment, and I have had bad experiences with MAC to PC lans. But I think the original Q was likely more on a single user base...so perhaps it doesnt apply as much.<br>

Philip is right. Shoot more, sit at desk less :-)</p>