want to try medium format in addition to a M6 ttl

[tom_tong]

This may be a bit out of topic but the question relates to Leica

because I own a M6 ttl and now wish to try medium format photography.

I've no problem in rangefinder focusing and therefor have no intention

to exclude RF medium format camera. I've seen the Mamayi 7 II, the

lenses are said to be very good, quite like it. The Hassy is boxy and

not that easy to carry around, though they have plenty of excellent

lenses and very expansive. I wish knowledgeable friends here can give

me some idea.Thanks a lot.

[johann_fuller]

If you want portability then look at the old Mamiya 6 - the square format makes a refreshing change from the rectangle and it's more compact than the 7.

Also look at the Fuji RF's - they only have the fixed standard and wide but if you like the 3:2 picture format the 6x9 is the way to go.

If you want to try MF on a budget an old Yashicamat 124g 6x6 twin lens reflex will give startlingly good results for peanut prices.

The Hassleblad (Remember all 6x7 cameras are realy 7x7 cameras).is suprisingly compact compared to other SLR MF cameras but it works best on a tripod or in the studio.

[terry_rory]

I would recommend TLR 6x6 also. A Rolleiflex 3.5f or even an old Rolleicord VA2 or VB or Yashicamat. They operate silently and have excellent lenses and the 6x6 format is so satisfying to master in terms of compositional opportunities beyon what is possible with the rectangular formats.

[terry_rory]

Of course if you want REALLY serious Leica style MF then there is no other option but this.....

 

http://www.leicagallery.com/mediumformat.htm

[terry_rory]

The Plaubel Makina 67 is superb and if you want an example of what is possible try looking at some of Martin Parr's work. He used Plaubel Makina 67 with w/angle Nikkor lenses plus ring flash and the old (super saturated) Agfa Ultra 50 print film very successfully for many years with such books as 'Last Resort' and 'Think of England'.

[karl_yik1]

Tom, The Mamiya7ii is almost identical to the M6 in terms of operation, but film loading is a bit of a pain, hence the advantage of having removable backs of the Hassies. The lenses are also very good esp the compact wide angle 43mm which is very similar to the old Leitz Super Angulon in that most of then lens is inside the camera body. The external viewfinder is not that clear or bright though. My one had a sticky shutter release (its a bit too sensitive, a stronger spring would have been better)

[fred_sun1]

Check out the Texas Leica - GSW690III (6x9 format) or the GW670III (6x7). Fuji also has rangefinders in 645 format. Caveat - depending where you live, good labs for medium format may be hard to find. YMMV.

[bobtodrick]

I'll agree with a couple of previous posts. The best way (IMO) to get into medium format inexpensively is to go for a good used Rolleiflex or 'Cord. After that the Fuji rangefinders are excellent, lenswise, though can be a bit fragile. This of course is all great if you can live with one lens. Though a lot of people swear by them, the Mamiya rangefinders (both 6X6 and 6X7) are not cameras I would personally choose. I sell all this stuff to pros. And in the last 10 years since the first Mamiya 6 came out I've sold a bundle of them and had a slightly smaller bundle returned. Maybe things have changed, but they had a reputation (which my experience has borne out) for real spotty quality control in the lenses. Two 75's (for example), side by side on the assembly line - one sharp as a tack, the other really soft.

[fran__ois_p._weill]

Tom writes

 

>> This may be a bit out of topic but the question relates to Leica because I own a M6 ttl and now wish to try medium format photography. I've no problem in rangefinder focusing and therefor have no intention to exclude RF medium format camera. I've seen the Mamiya 7 II, the lenses are said to be very good, quite like it. The Hassy is boxy and not that easy to carry around, though they have plenty of excellent lenses and very expansive. I wish knowledgeable friends here can give me some idea. Thanks a lot. <<

 

Many others answered before me, but I�m sorry Tom, I don�t understand what you expect to get from a Medium Format of the rangefinder category (nor what you can get from a Rollei TLR by the way, I have the one I offered to my son at hand if needed and unless I don�t carry my SFRF equipment, never feel the need to use it instead). Modern films of average speed, enlarged to usual professional dimensions (say a minimum of 18x24 (27) cm or even A4 format are nowadays provided with a grain fine enough to avoid any absolute requirement to use a MF (30 x 40 cm is possible but here the difference begin to show actually if not critically). So, IMHO, the increase in format alone is not justified if you don�t blow your negatives to large sizes, beyond current enlargement values.

 

This said, I use a Medium Format as a complement to my SFRF outfit (or conversely and more accurately my SFRF as a complement to my MF equipment). But this MF equipment is fundamentally different in concept:

 

It is a SLR, because SLR concept permits me to tackle subjects beyond the capabilities of a rangefinder camera, hence macro-photography with extension tubes (and eventually a bellow) and long tele-lens (I have a 500 mm one, equivalent to a 300 mm in 35 mm).

 

As soon as possible the present body: a Mamiya 645 1000 S will be replaced by a Mamiya 645 Pro TL to bring back what my Hassy equipment (stolen) gave me: interchangeable backs

 

As I don�t want to tackle sport or wild life photography and considering the volume of a Medium Format SLR equipment versus a modern high end 35mm SLR, I think I have more interest in having an image 2.7 times larger and go MF. So the format itself comes last to justify this choice. But it is very interesting particularly when it goes to some studio-like kind of photography (mainly objects and macro-photography).

 

So my advice, on the contrary to many other participants, will be: if you go to MF in complement to your M6, try to extract the maximum advantages permitted by the formula. You won�t regret it and you�ll have less dilemma choosing which system you want to carry with you in regard to the subjects you�ll have to face if you don�t want (or have the possibility or need) to carry both.

 

Friendly

 

François P. WEILL

[xavier_dalfort]

Hello Tom:

 

I have not a lot of experience but the other day I asked to be demonstrated a Bronica RF 645.

 

You have a complete review on this forum.

 

It felt like a big M6, well in hand, easy to use and a range finder.

The controls are on top and back, the left of the screen has a display to give you all the info.

3 lenses, a 65mm/f4, equivalent to 40mm, a 135mm/f4 equivalent to 90mm and a 45mm, with an external viewfinder.

 

The Range finder is large and precise, well contrasted.

 

Simple, efficient and VERY silent. The shutter is located into the lens, leaf shutter.

 

The format is mostly portait (for landscape, rotate the camera 1/4 turn, the opposite of a 24x36).

 

If I felt like buying a medium format, it would be certainly a RF645. MHO. Xavier

[schopke]

I must tell you my Leica inspries me. I understand that the photography is ultimately me. But I feel there is a relationship between my camera and myself. When I hold my Leica there is a spiritual bond between me and my camera. When the subject matter and light work the relationship between my camera, the subject, the light, and myself becomes electrified! My Hasselblad inspires me in the same fashion. I would take my Hasselblad over any other MF camera anyday! good luck.

[Troll]

What is it that you think you will be able to do with 120 that you can't do with 35mm? You can make bigger enlargements with less grain -- that's about it! But how often do you want to go over 16x20, anyhow? Okay, so it turns out that you're not really a photographer, but just another equipment freak. It's your money; you can waste it any way you want to.

[roberto_watson_garc_a]

I own a Hass 500cm, a "good" camera but a pain to use, unlesss you´re in a studio, my next mid format option is asa 64 film on my leicas.

[terry_dvorak]

Bill, are you saying that all medium-format rangefinder users (like

Jeff Spirer) are "equipment freaks" who want to "waste their money"?

 

Also, re: an earlier comment, only a revolving-back 6x7 needs an image

circle large enough to cover 7x7. Non-RB cameras like the Pentax and

Bronica 6x7 can get by with a smaller image circle and (generally)

smaller lenses.

 

.

[paul hart]

I have a Mamiya 6MF in addition to my Leica M gear. It is no longer in production but can be obtained secondhand at reasonable prices. Many prefer it to the 7 because of the square format and, importantly, because the lens collapses into the body making very compact.

 

It also has the advantages of a rangefinder, a stunning viewfinder, extraordinary lens quality, and a very ergonomic design. Not to mention aperture-priority or manual metering, rock solid build quality, and those great big negatives.

 

The only significant drawbacks are a limited (but adequate) lens range, no super-fast lenses, and no close-focus facility. To most users, these things don't matter.

 

It may be heresy to say this on this forum, but if I had to choose between this and my Leicas, I'm not completely sure which would win...

[andrew_hall1]

It's also worthwhile to check out the discontinued Fuji GA645/645i.

[allison_reese]

B. Mitchell must be a sad, lonely, and bitter man....pity.

[jean_christophe_barnoud1]

Re :

"

Also, re: an earlier comment, only a revolving-back 6x7 needs an image circle large enough to cover 7x7. Non-RB cameras like the Pentax and Bronica 6x7 can get by with a smaller image circle and (generally) smaller lenses.

"

 

I would not agree with this statement. A 6x7cm rectangle has the same diagonal and covering this image needs the same image circle whether it is horizontal or vertical or anything else in between and whether it is a revolving back or not. The lens size is totally unaffected. The camera size might be bigger though.

[greg_mason]

all fuji's have tack sharp lenses. i shoot with the ga645i, and the gw690. the advantage of the 645i is that it is small and light and the lens retracts into the body. i do not necessarily like all the electronics, and it is difficult to use manually, but it shoots quickly and easily. the gw690 is all manual with no meter. it gives you the largest negative you will find in MF which makes the single lens adequate for most uses since you have plenty of room to crop.

[stephen_w.]

Tom, my answer is to go for it. the big neg. diff. is easy to see in a print as small as 8x10. i use a hassy swc. never mind what the bitch mill says.

[Spearhead]

Here are a few of my observations.<p>

 

I found the big Fuji (I had a 690GSW) unpleasant in an ergonomic sense. It isn't comfortable to handhold. The shutter is jarring, enough that I always anticipated it hitting hard. The viewfinder distorts. The lens hood has to be pulled out to set the shutter, and the lens hood can't be pulled out if you have a polarizer on it. Exposures longer than one second are painful since it doesn't have a B setting, but a T setting that requires moving the shutter dial or winding the film. I kept it about nine months, trying to get comfortable with it, because the big negatives are great.<p>

 

I tried the Plaubel Makina. Nice camera, but there are always reports of fragility and difficulty of repair for the fragile parts.<p>

 

I also used a TLR for a number of years. If you are used to rangefinder viewing, you will find TLR viewing very different. It's dim, difficult at night, difficult sometimes in bright sun. However, I found it easy to hold and use. I had a Rollei, but you have to watch the models. Some are much easier to use than others.<p>

 

In the end, I bought a used Mamiya 7 and have no complaints at all about it. If you prefer rangefinder viewing and want reliability and interchangeable lenses, the Mamiya 6 and 7 are probably your best choices. Mamiya runs an excellent forum, monitored by some of their techs, at the Mamiya website, a huge bonus. The Bronica rangefinder may be OK too, but it hasn't been around very long.<p>

 

I use medium format and I am hardly an equipment freak, in fact:<p>

 

<i>But I feel there is a relationship between my camera and myself</i><p>

 

is the opposite of how I feel. I want the camera to get out of my way. I want to look at what I'm shooting and have a direct connection between the negative and what I see happening in my mind when I'm shooting. For me, the best camera is one with which I have no relationship, but the one that is invisible.<p>

 

I see a noticeable difference between formats by 8x10. Most other people do. When I have shows, people never comment on the differences between 35mm shots with different lenses (and I have a few shots made with terrible lenses, next to ones with Leica lenses), but I do get comments on the appearance of the medium format prints relative to 35mm prints. This is at 11x14. Also, it is not grain, but tonality.

[Troll]

Allison, you forgot "cheap."

[kelly_flanigan1]

Jeff is correct; it is the tones..<BR><BR>My prewar Rolleiflex Standards Tessar is great portrait camera...Its tessar is sharp in center & so so at the very extreme corners........its contrast after 64 years is low...<BR><BR> But for portraits that are 11x14 or 16x20 " is has nice even tonal quality due to the big 6x6 cm negative....Shots done with my 50mm F2 Summicron and enlarged to the same size look sharper at the edges and mid ways in; but dont have the creamy smooth character that comes with moderate enlargement ratios...<BR><BR>120 6x6 negatives only need one half the enlargement to make a 16x20....

[dante_stella]

I would suggest a Fuji GA645 as an entree. It has as much or

as little automation as you need, it has a tack sharp 60/4 Fuji

lens (comparable to a 35/2, motor drive, auto focus (or manual

via scale), auto exposure (P, A, M), data recording (outside

frame). when you account for angle of view and the fact that you

can use 400 film instead of 100). I used this camera extensively,

and for the money, there is simply no beating it. When you shut

it off, it fits in a coat pocket.<div></div>

[kelly_flanigan1]

<a href="http://www.interq.or.jp/world/m-naka/kaprigs/picavet/picavet.html">Here is Dante's Fuji up in the air in a Kite!</a>