ethics, portrait commissions ..?

[jtk]

<p>In the Seventies San Francisco commercial photography ethical standards were published, adhered to by my peers, and actually enforced upon advertising agencies. The real thing. I always exceeding ethical minimums by 50% (my basic day rate was $650, which was low-middle). Rip Van Winkle, times change. I'm not a commerical photographer any more, don't want to be. What I do now is something like "art," and I've not wanted to sell anything...</p>

<p>However...an arts patron wants a portrait and insists on paying. I've refused...but the truth is that I have been planning to start making a little money this way (need it). The patron has already provided important subject referrals ...with whom I've yet to talk money. Some of them will undoubtedly provide more referrals if I deliver what we both hope for.</p>

<p>Ethics: I don't see myself in competition with local studios because the subjects are buying my work, not "photography." Are any of you in a similar position? How have you established your commission rates?</p>

<p>Location, natural or simulated natural light. Light Photoshop retouching, B&W or color at my discretion. I'm after a simple, somewhat emotive look...I take an hour mostly getting to know the subject and may want to return for a second bite at the apple. The subjects are highly intelligent people in their 60s-70s, some of whom are in academia or the arts.</p>

<p>The ideal delivery is simply two prints of one image. No labs...I'm a print-maker. I don't want to serve clients' commercial purposes (no executive portraits, no products, no delivered files). </p>

<p>Anybody here have similar aspirations/approaches? What's a fair/good rate? I'm thinking $250, $50 each for additional letter-sized inkjet prints.</p>

 

[daverhaas]

<p>John -</p>

<p>I don't see it as an ethical issue - you're a photographer looking to make some money and doing custom - high end portraits is a way for you to do that. McDonald's doesn't ask if it's ethical if they open a restaurant next to Burger King or Wendy's. They do it.</p>

<p>The bigger question, as opposed to ethics, is market demand and saturation. Are there still enough clients willing to pay for a high end photo and is there room in the market for another photographer?</p>

<p>Dave</p>

<p> </p>

[bobcossar]

<p>I do quite a bit of this kind of thing........but It is hard to know how knowing my rates are going to assist<em><strong> you</strong> </em> .....I charge a lot more than you do, but I have no limits as to what I'll do to get the images I want to show.<br>

Then too, I only have my work professionally printed. I am a talented photographer, but I'm not in the "ultimate pro" league when it comes to making prints. And, the every best is what I'll settle for all the way down the line.<br>

My basic approach to a fine art portrait sitting is this: <strong> One fixed fee, set of proofs...not many, and fully retouched in most cases, and a 20x? inch finished, mounted numbered print.</strong><br>

Hope this helps some...Regards, Bob</p>

[l_e]

<p>John - are you saying that during the 1970s commercial photographers in San Fransisco were involved in some kind of price fixing?</p>

[jtk]

<p>David, good thoughts, especially in early career.</p>

<p>Bob, I print my own because I'm good at it and some folks like that. I've almost always dodged weddings, but on your website they're some of your most important work. 20" portraits do appeal to some folks, so more power to you. I don't deliver proofs, and when I worked commercially I almost exclusively shot chromes. Mounted prints are inappropriate in certain situations (museums, galleries). We seem to be on different planets: it's nice to know you're out there, doing great business :-)</p>

<p> </p>

[jtk]

<p>LE it was teamwork by graphic designers/producers, photographers, and the creative people/account execs at agencies (agencies sold creativity). Published rate standards. ASMP does something like that today. Photographers and agency ADs were usually on the same page...creative people dominated in the big agencies, so the lesser had to follow suit. Seems commercial photographrs made more real dollars back then. I never knew any generalists or wedding folks, so I don't know what that was like.</p>

[l_e]

<p>Sounds like price fixing to me...<br>

http://business-law.freeadvice.com/trade_regulation/price_fixing.htm</p>

 

[jtk]

<p>LE, How much did you pay for your legal advice ? :-)</p>

[l_e]

<p>John - it wasn't legal advice at at all, just a definition.<br>

Here is another definition on a more 'reputable' website...<br>

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/public/guidelines/primer-ncu.htm</p>

<p>As for what to charge...<br>

Charge what you are comfortable with regardless of what others in the community are charging. You don't know their business models or overhead expenses so you don't know their reasoning behind their pricing structure. I would think $250 is a bit low, especially since you are including 2 8x10 prints (assuming you don't print the image on the full 8.5x11 page) valued at $50 each.<br>

You are charging $150 for at least an hour of photography, plus processing time, printing time, and administrative time (talking with clients, setting up a time, paperwork, etc). I would imagine that each session take up about 4-5 hours of your time so you are making at least $30 an hour for each session. If you are happy with that then go for it.<br>

My point about the price fixing was that you should not blindly base your pricing on what everyone else is doing - it doesn't make good business sense.</p>

 

[jtk]

<p>LE Time is not a problem. I enjoy the process, especially the challenges of working with subjects. "Paperwork" only takes moments (assuming one is at least semi-serious, so has a CPA). I don't photograph for dollars any more, do want to organize the way I get paid for some of my work. There are infinitely easier ways to make money, that don't take the fun out of life... multi-task photography obviously does for some. Thanks for your free legal advice. It's invalid, but at least I didn't pay for it. Here's a link someone else will appreciate: <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Daybooks-Edward-Weston-California/dp/B000KW1SBI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234826696&sr=8-4">http://www.amazon.com/Daybooks-Edward-Weston-California/dp/B000KW1SBI/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1234826696&sr=8-4</a></p>