Thinking of going Large Format (4x5)

[rjn]

Currently I have 35mm and 645 medium format systems and thinking

about adding 4x5 large format. My main area of interest is landscape

photography and was wondering what type systems would best fit this

area? Do I go with field camera or rail type? What is the best focal

length lens with a 4x5 for landscape work. And finally what should I

be palnning on spending on a good starter 4x5 system?

 

Thanks for any info

Robert

[todd_west]

It depends on what you want to do and how much you want to spend. Your questions are so wide I'm tempted to call trolling; spend some time reading the LF archives here, at www.largeformatphotography.info, and watching LF auctions on eBay. Then come back once you've got a better sense of what's out there---the number of opinions you'll get in response to this post is small compared to the amount of information already readily available.

[jonathan_bundick]

Robert,

 

I would suggest a Graphlex Super Graphic. This is an all metal field type camera, very rigid, and most if not all the movements you would need for landscapes. Cost: About $400-$600 complete with a 135mm or 127mm lens. If you try it and find Large format is not for you, you could easily sell it and get your money back. If you like the 24mm to 28mm range in your 35mm system, then a 90mm would be a close match. Older single coated models, such as an Angulon, or a Wollensak Raptar will do the job, but don't much in the way of movements. They both will allow enough front tilt to gain the near far focus you may be looking for in large format. Raptar about $100-$150, Angulon: $175-$250 on the dreaded Eb......y!

 

I went this route in December, and have no regrets.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Field cameras might be the preferred design to go with . if you

think you only want a naroow range of lenses, say 75mm to

maybe 240mm . than oneof the lunchboxcameras, like the Toyo

45II or The Linhof Technika, which are basically the same

design as the Speed Graphic press cameras but without the

rangefinder and a bit heavier in build, are fine but I find them

limited.<P>My favorite true filed camera that i have worked with is

the CAnham DLC. It folds up but has more versatiliy (the

standard bellows lets you work with lenses as short as 58mm

and as long as 72

)0mm Telephoto design. For the wide angles you don't need a

recessed board either. The ony movement it lacks is rear

standard rise and fall, but you do have shift, swing and tilt on

both the front and rear standards abd a lot of rise /fall range on

the front standard. I think it is reasonably priced compared to

other cameras inits class. like the Ebony. <P>I've never worked

with any of the wooden folder cameras like the Wisner or the

Zone VI enough except to determine that I didn't t like how they

worked, their ergonomics, in my hands. Others feel differently.

tuan's large format homepage has a great deal of info about

camera types and specific cameras.

[hyperfocal]

Ellis is right on the money, you won't go wrong with the DLC. A lot depends on how much $$ you want to spend, how much you hike in, and the lenses yo might need, and how committed you are to the format. If you will use the LF gear only occasionally, you may want to get a less expensive camera. However, if you fall in love with LF, you don't want to spend $$ on a camera you will quickly outgrow. Some of the wood fields are good, ditto the Linhof 45S.

 

What lenses to get depends on what/how yo shoot. What 35mm and MF lenses do you use most. Start here, Just about everybody has a 210mm, and then something in the 90-135mm range.

 

Ideally you could hook up with somebody and try the stuff out before you take the plunge. I bet there are some LF guys on this forum who would be glad to spend some time showing you their gear. It really helps to see the gear in situ.

 

Where do you live?

 

H

[paul_owen]

Robert, Don't do it!!!! It will take over your photography and your life!! If you are certain though then you need to set yourself a budget and then decide on the lenses you plan on using (use your fave lenses in the formats you already use to give you an idea of the focal lengths to look for). Once you've got this far then look at what cameras are available that will accept these lenses. By this point you will probably have gone way over budget!! DESPITE this I am a great believer in getting the best you can afford!! If you have a sound grasp of photography and are happy to read a few books and make quite a few (early?) mistakes DON'T get a cheap "old" camera and dodgy lens - it is false economy! IMHO You yourself KNOW if you are suited to LF before you pick up a LF camera. I'm not suggesting that you will pick it up straight away but you will endeavour to master it!! Also, make use of this GREAT forum! Most (myself included)are more than happy for you to contact them off forum via email if you need help and/or advice. Good luck. Paul

[Troll]

Your favorite lens in 35mm and MF may have nothing to do with what you prefer in LF (the usual 135mm lens is equivalent to 40mm on a 35mm negative). Do you already have a 4x5 enlarger? There's another expense. A tripod which is light enough to work well with 35/MF will have to be replaced for LF. At current prices, a good used Super Graphic (stay away from the Super Speed) will set you back $600. Then there are Cut Film Holders (CFH or DD if you're British). Expect realistically to spend a minimum of $1000 to get started with equipment that you won't immediately hate.

[matthew_runde]

<a name="1">Robert,</a><br>

<br>

I would suggest that, before you sink a lot of money into LF, you rent or borrow some LF gear and use it. This will answer so many of the "personal preference" questions that we can't answer here.<br>

<br>

[curtis_nelson]

Robert,

 

My one piece of advice to you would be to buy used equipment. I spent several months recently trying to decide between field and monorail cameras for landscape work. I read all the books I could find, but I couldn't decide what to get, mainly because I wasn't able to see any in person. I finally decided to test the waters with some used gear, knowing that if I got hooked on the format I could use the experience to buy a better camera later, and on the other hand, If I ended up hating all this mess then I could re-sell the gear for about what I paid for it. I ended up buying a used Calumet 45N for what I think was a pretty good price. It came with a 150mm lens and some film holders, and I don't have any regrets. It's been a great learning experience, and I can honestly say I've learned more just by using the camera a few times than I did from all the time spent reading books and searching the internet. At first I wasn't sure how I'd like only having a single lens, but it honestly hasn't been that big of a deal. Now, instead of just zooming in or out, I'll look for a different angle or vantage point. This is precisely what I wanted out of LF photography - I wanted to be forced to slow down and carefully compose and think about each picture. Am I happy with the monorail camera? Well, it does everything I want it to do (and more), but it sure is heavy and bulky. But, by taking the plunge, buying used, and learning from this experience, I'll be better prepared when it comes time to buy my next camera.

[emile_de_leon9]

If you dont have a lot of $$$ buy a speed graphic w lens, make sure it is cammed to the rangefinder. Or if a little more money an older Linhof..has more movements and extension than graphic. Or get a wista or nagoaka/anba wooden view camera, nice and light. But if you dont have an enlarger why not go 5x7 or 8x10 and do contacts.Sometimes you can find a 4x5 omega d2 enlarger for cheap though.You will need an enlarger with 4x5. If it were up to me I would go 6x9 or 5x7 and up. 6x9 is almost as good as 4x5 and a lot more convienent.... and 5x7 is close to the same size as a 4x5 camera but better proportions and bigger neg. 4x5 though has a better lens selection and a better film selection and easier to process in a tank than 5x7. Good luck!

[roger___3]

In addition to the already good advice offered, I would add a couple of items. People have different shooting styles. If yours is to pack a mile or two with a tripod on your shoulder, most of the systems mentioned will probably work fine. If you may spend a day hiking, do overnighters, or hike a few miles in a day, consider weight in every peice of gear you look at. Other wise you will have less energy for shooting after toting all the gear (unless you are in very good shape). This probably comes down to Wistas, Tachiharas, or other lunch box cameras. Or lightweight monorails like the Toho.

 

Also, I am a former Super Graphic/press lens owner. For me this did not offer satisfactory amount of movements - very little actually with that combination due to the lens. With a better lens with more coverage, tilts are still awkward. After about six months, I grew out of the Graphic and got a more versitile and system.

 

Also, if you don't plan to enlarge beyond 16X20 and really don't think you need movements for the perspective control a 4X5 offers, you might be just as well of with a 6X7. Larger prints and perspective control are to me the main reasons to get a 4X5.

[brian_ellis3]

Just a couple minor corrections about the Linhof Technika. The longest normal lens usable on it is around 330 mm, not 240. And most Technikas have rangefinders though not too many people use them any more. As someone else said, you should probably be doing some independent reading and then come here with more specific questions, but FWIW I'd suggest a Tachihara or Shen Hao (sp?) as a first camera for the type of work you describe. Both are moderately priced (around $650 new), have more than adequate movements (the Shen Hao has a couple more than the Tachihara but weighs about two pounds more than the Tachihara and IMHO the extra movements aren't needed for landscape work but movements are always nice to have), and are cameras that you could very well end up keeping for the rest of your 4x5 career.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<A HREF = http://192.147.236.3/~lfgroup> click on this link to

Tuan's "A Homepage for Large Format Photography"</A>. This is

the website I mentioned in my first post wher you can find both

very objective and also more than few very biased, reviews and

responses of almost all popular makes and models of Large

Format cameras. There are also several good discusions about

gear, lenses, necessary accesories, techniques, and choosing

large format equipment. i think it is the very best internet

resource for information about large format photography that you

will find.

[david_r.1]

I've been using a Toyo 45cx with a Nikkor 300mm M for almost a year now. I bought the 300mm for portraits in a studio environment. It is not a landscape lens - I would much prefer a 90mm or 135mm for landscape.

 

Even though I only have the 300, I really like riding around in my car finding things to photograph - and I do think more about what I want and am doing. If I really want a picture of something then I can get a great one in LF. Having polaroids and quickloads/readyloads helps a lot as far as that goes as well.

 

I still use my 35mm and am considering buying a medium format for what I cannot easily get with my large format camera - snapshots of family and friends with natural expressions.

[david_r.1]

Also, I've been building a bender 8x10. I've never worked with wood before but I finding a lot of satisfaction in building a LF camera. Especially if it works when I'm finished. I'm just one of those people that won't fork a ton of money into an expensive system only to squash it in my car. www.benderphoto.com to go this route.

[steve_feldman]

Robert,

 

I've done the exact same as you.

 

Listen to these guys/gals above. They're ALL speaking the truth. Especially the costs involved. Camera leads to lens. Lens leads to more lenses. Leads to holders. Leads to polaroid back. Leads to polaroid film. Leads to big honking tri-pod. Leads to 4x5 enlarger. Leads to spot meter.

 

Leads to . . . .

 

Leads to . . . .

 

Leads to . . . .

 

Leads to . . . .

 

I've loved every second of it.<div></div>

[james_chinn]

My advice is to buy used from Ebay. Look at the older Calumet monorails- c300/c400 models. Look for one with a longer rail, I believe `17" and 21". Many of these cameras can be had for around $250, some a little more with a lens. These cameras were workhorses for many years and are virtually indestructible. They provide full movements allowing you to learn the benefits and complexities of LF for a small investment.

 

The disadvantage is the camera is heavy and the rail design can cause some slight yaw movement after you make final adjustments. The advantage is if you find you enjoy working with the camera and the format you can then decide on a more specific camera/design and re-sell the calumet on Ebay or keep it for a backup system.

 

Also give yourself plenty of time to get past the initial frustration phase of the format. It does take a while to master movements, correct focus and working with the larger film and film holders. Have fun and please post updates as to what your decision is.

[rjn]

I would like to thank everyone for the input. At this point in time I have ordered a book, "View Camera Technique" which I will be reading in the next day or so. And I feel I have narrowed my camera selection down to a used Toyo C, Toyo CX, or Calumet view camera. Also I feel my first lense will be either a 150mm or 135mm, this again I will be loking for good used lens. As far as used equipment goes I know there is allways E-Bay, but can you recommend other avenues for used equipment. I thisnk this type view camera will work for me since most of my landscape work currently is from locations I can drive to or short hikes under one mile. At this point I have a budget set at 1200 to 1400 dollars.

 

Thanks again for everyones input.

Robert

[dave b]

Hello Robert, I remember being in exactly your spot just a few years ago. My first large format camera was a old Korona 5X7 and a old Gundlach Radar Antisigmat, I learned with that old camera and managed to produce (after much practice) some real nice negatives. I didn't have a computer back then (the dark ages) and spent alot of time in the pages of "Shutterbug" and View Camera magazine. (that's where I found the camera, lens and CFH's. Then one day, I was in a used camera store and found a Calumet C-1 8X10 metal, flatbed camera in great condition and really cheap. I paid 300 bucks for it and haven't looked back. Since then, I have become a eBay junkie. ALmost everything (beside film holders and meter) was purchased there. (with thanks to Mr Steve Grimes, who mounts barrel lenses in shutters) So here's where you are now...

 

4X5 good intro, least expensive, great availibilty, need enlarger

 

5X7 can be cheap, film availibilty much less, smallest LF suitable

for contact prints.

 

8X10 can be expensive, lenses not hard to find but be prepared to

find an older one in good condition, good film choices.

awesome contact prints!

 

With all that said, go 4X5, until you know what you want and if you live in the Pacific Northwest let me know, I'm heading to Mt Rainier this weekend.<div></div>