Advice on lens please

[peter_howard2]

<p>I am a senior just getting into a lifelong intention / ambition of photography as a hobby. I have ordered and am awaiting delivery of the Nikon 50mm AF-S 1.4G lens (for use on D60) but now have an offer of an old (but in superb condition) 85mm F.2 lens. I am now wondering whether to spend out more and get both or whether the 50mm will cover (+ or -) the same area or work. I want to spend time in portraiture - most of which will be inside and probably head/shoulders. Would there be any benefit i.e. more flexibility, better quality from the 85mm lens. Any advice / help would be greatly appreciated. Pete.</p>

[shuo_zhao]

<p>>> "but now have an offer of an old (but in superb condition) 85mm F.2 lens"</p>

<p>It really depends on which 85mm lens is in question. Obviously it's not going to be one of the most recent 85mm Nikkors (which are both "ancient", their optical formulas probably have been around as long as you have or longer), as they're the f/1.8 and f/1.4 AF-D versions. (not f/2) But even the latest and best 85mm lens Nikon currently makes lacks some of the new AF-S 50 f/1.4G's features. The new 50 has a brand new optical design and updated coating along with SWM AF w/ fulltime MF, the AF capability along is enough to make it a much more compelling choice for a D60 shooter. Assume that the 85 mm lens you're talking about is older, perhaps it'll be even less usable on the D60.</p>

<p>As far as the question of "which FL is better" goes: it really depends on a lot of things. Both the 50 50 and 85 roughly fall within the classical portrait FL range after the DX crop factor. The 85 would provide more pronounced compression perspective effects of a telephoto lens, which's nice for stereotypical portraits (especially involving subjects w/ big noses); while the 50 is more versatile as a general purpose low light candid portrait lens: its shorter FL allows great usability/flexibility indoors and could be more appropriate for certain kinds of environmental portraits, its smaller size could be nice.</p>

<p>There's probably no such thing as the ideal lens as far as certain type of shooting goes. It all depends on the look you're looking for in a specific image; and the FL makes a huge difference. W/o knowing more information about which 85 mm lens you're talking about, I can't comment too much about it. But the 50 f/1.4G is as of now, one of Nikon's newest and (most likely) best performing lenses made to work perfectly with their superb new cameras. Maybe you should give the 50 a try and go from there.</p>

<p>A interesting alternative to the 50 f/1.4G would be the recently announced 35 f/1.8 DX.</p>

<p>Btw, I been trying to get the 50 f/1.4G myself, but it seems to be out of stock everywhere.</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>Which version of the 85/2 Nikkor? Opinions differ about the 85/2 AI and AI-S manual focus Nikkors. Mine (AI-S) is very good but I may have lucked into an exceptional copy. Not quite as sharp wide open as my 105/2.5 AI Nikkor, but equal to it stopped down just a bit. Very good by f/4. Handy for available light candids, portraiture and indoor sports (take a bit of practice to focus quickly enough to follow action). Good size too, about the same size as a typical 50mm lens but a bit heavier.</p>

[peter_howard2]

<p>Hi Guys, Thanks for your replies. Sorry I did not give full info. The lens in question is a Nikon 85mm AI-s F/2 version. approximately 20 years old - as far as I can establish. I accept that this will have restricted functionality i.e no auto focus, but for portraiture work I can't see that being a problem. Your other comments are appreciated.</p>

[mike_earussi1]

<p>Have you tried to focus manually on your present camera? Modern autofocus cameras don' t tend to have screens designed for manual focus so it may not be very easy to achieve accurate results.</p>

[bruce_margolis]

<p>Peter, if you don't care about manual with the 85/2, IMO it is a much better focal length for portrait work as long as you have enough room inside. For head-and-shoulders work, I find the 50mm range to be a bit close which bothers some people. </p>

<p>But everyone is different. Why not try out the 50mm when you get it. If it looks too tight for you, then get that 85mm.</p>

 

[tommyinca]

<p>Get both especially your 85mm is both manual focus and manual metering. AF and metering still are super helpfull with moving subjects and lighting that changes. 50 being 75mm FOV and the 85mm has a 125mm FOV. Both can work together for what you what to do. </p>

[Alan Marcus]

<p >About lenses for an APS-C format.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >The D-60 sports a sensor chip that measures 15.8mm height 23.6mm length. The format ratio is 23.6 divided by 15.8 = 1.5. This translates to: The length of the images made by this camera is 1.5 times the height (23.6 ÷ 15.8 = 1.5). That ratio is the same as a 4x6 or 8x12 inch print. This ratio is call “classic”. The APS-C is an abbreviation for Advanced Photo System – Classic Format. A failed film/digital format size introduced by all the major camera makers in the 1990’s however this format spawned the chip size used in your camera. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >We fit lenses to cameras based on need i.e. “normal” wide-angle – telephoto – portrait. All choices stem from “normal”. “Normal” is the human experience as to perspective. Allow me to explain: If you stand close to a glass window and observe an outside vista, you can trace on the glass, with wax pencil, the outlines of objects observed. The resulting drawing relates to perspective as we observe it. If a camera is substituted for the human eye and placed the same distance from the glass, the resulting picture will duplicate the perspective of the human experience if; the lens mounted on the camera has a focal length equal to the diagonal measure of the film or chip. For your camera, the D60 that measurement is 28.4mm but its OK to round to 30mm. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Since the D60 has a format that is smaller than the venerable 35mm “full frame” film camera which has been around for about 100 years, photographers and teaches like to hold the 35mm format up as a some kind of “gold standard”. This format is 24mm by 36mm with a diagonal of 43mm. Your D60 is 66% of this size. If you fit a lens designed for a 35mm film camera on your D60, the view will be narrower or cropped. The inverse of 66% is 1.5. Teaches often throw out this value called a “crop factor” or “magnification factor”. Stated another way, your camera format is smaller than the 35mm full frame format. To match your angle of view, the 35mm camera must have a longer lens. If you mount a 50mm on your camera, the 35mm film camera needs 30 x 1.5 = 75mm to deliver the same angle of view.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >What you need to know is; the D60, when fitted with a 30mm lens matches the human experience. We call this focal length normal. If we mount a lens 70% or shorter of this value, the lens is said to be a wide-angle. That translates to 20mm or shorter.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >If we mount a lens 200% of normal, that’s 30 x 2 = 60mm we enter the realm of telephoto. Stated another way if we mount a 60mm or longer on the D60 we are mounting a telephoto. </p>

<p > </p>

<p >Now for portraiture we wish to duplicate the perspective the subject is most familiar with. This is because people have a pre-conceived notion of what they look like. If we deliver a picture that violates this perspective, the subject is likely to say “the camera sure lies” or “I don’t photograph well”. The secret is to match the perspective as seen in the makeup/shaving mirror. This is best accomplished when a lens is mounted that is 250% or longer than “normal”. Hollywood uses 300% for Cine close-ups. If you follow this rule-of-thumb, you will fit the D60 with a 30 x 2.5 = 75mm or longer, for portraiture. If you do this, your images will be better accepted by the subject and contest judges.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Photography is both an art and a science. From the photographers point-of-view it is mostly art. This being true you are free to follow your heart and use any focal length lens you heart desires.</p>

<p > </p>

<p >Nobody said this stuff is easy!</p>

[peter_howard2]

<p>Mike: I have on occasions switched off the auto-focus on the lenses I have and used the manual option. I imagine the 85mm in question would be similar to use as doing this.<br>

Bruce & Tommy: You really confirm what I have "picked up" from reading various articles on this forum and the net generally, but felt some expert advice specifically relating to these lenses would clarify the situ.<br>

Alan: once again you have come up trumps for me. thanks so much for the in-depth evaluation. Being a "newbie" (and an old one at that!) it will take a lot of reading it over and over again for me to fully comprehend the complexities - and yes it sure is complex, but thank you for your time and willingness to share your knowledge.<br>

I shall continue to monitor this thread for any other input, but am fairly convinced that if the piggy bank will allow, I'll go for broke and get both. The span of possibilities with both is too irresistable to miss.<br>

Thanks once again everyone, I really appreciate your help. Pete</p>

[Alan Marcus]

<p>Correction:</p>

<p >I will sit in the corner for one hour with my duce cap on. <br>

If you mount a 30mm on your camera, the 35mm film camera needs 30 x 1.5 = 75mm to deliver the same angle of view.</p>

[jenkins]

<p>I have a Nikkor 50mm F/1.8 manual focus, 30 years old and i only became aware the other day that it has a flashing light in the bottom left hand corner of the screen inside to tell me when i'm on the money<em><strong>, </strong> </em> but i am sure i was the only person that did'nt know that ;)</p>